Main Cause of the Current Ammo Shortage? - Page 3

**JohnKSa** · July 21, 2020, 10:38 PM

Quote:

I have 2 rnds for my CC.

There's ammo out there online. Prices aren't great and selection is limited, but you can get some ammo to reload your carry gun.

Hawg · July 21, 2020, 11:04 PM

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starting price for plinking 9mm is .35/round

Unless they've gone up in the last two weeks my local gun shop has S&B 9MM hardball for 24 cents per round.

ghbucky · July 22, 2020, 07:25 AM

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Unless they've gone up in the last two weeks my local gun shop has S&B 9MM hardball for 24 cents per round.

you haven't looked in the last 2 weeks.

seanc · July 22, 2020, 09:57 AM

ghbucky:

Quote:

you haven't looked in the last 2 weeks.

LMAO-ROFL!!

ghbucky · July 22, 2020, 01:01 PM

So, here's a twist I haven't seen mentioned before:
https://www.hotsr.com/news/2020/jul/...e/#/questions/

Quote:

"As far as the ammo is concerned, the number one thing you have to have in order to make ammunition is raw materials, being lead and copper," Kastner said. "So all of the lead mines in the United States are in the state of Missouri; Missouri shut them down the first of March. All of the copper mines are in South America; South America shut them down in April. ... The lead mines are now open in Missouri, but getting copper for the casings is one of the choking points."

**44 AMP** · July 22, 2020, 09:15 PM

Never take ALL your ammo to the range and never shoot ALL your ammo at the range.

At least not any firearm & caliber that might be pressed into defensive service. Primarily handguns but not exclusively limited to them.

Leave a box at home, that way when the kid burns through the ammo you took to the range, you still have some at home.

Never shoot up ALL your defensive stuff at the range, or you're unarmed (out of ammo) if anything happens on the way home from the range.

As far as lead mines in the US, I don't think they matter much, as the last lead SMELTER in the US was shut down many years ago. The lead we use in industry today comes already refined from overseas sources (a lot from China) nd from recycled lead here in the US. Literally any lead ore we dig out of the ground has to go outside the US to be refined, then come back for use. Don't know about copper, but since its not AS toxic as lead, some processing might still be going on inside the US.

Either way, around the world a lot of the people who mine raw materials and the people who make things are shut down and a lot of the people who move things are barely managing. So it wouldn't surprise me at all that there is a shortage of materials, which always results in a shortage of end product.

About the only thing we aren't short of is people telling other people what to do, or how wrong they are for doing what they're doing.

Ignition Override · July 22, 2020, 10:48 PM

Probably the constant tv scenes of urban chaos-but just in certain areas.
* Also, images of the St. Louis couple Inside their very wealthy, Walled Community (how ironic-and where the Mayor lives) compounded the other images.
That couple heard threats about being killed, killing their dog, and burning their house.

THIS photo.....>>>>>>>>Note -----This photo might be in the backs of peoples' minds, from LA in '93.----

Some people can Now imagine being on the roof of their home, or standing in their front yard, although these Koreans were in a commercial area on their shops (this comment is for the people who don't know about this).

Ignition Override · July 23, 2020, 02:00 AM

44 AMP:

Do people actually shoot all of their ammo at the range, and assume--even in normal times--that there could never be another unanticipated panic?

If they use all of their ammo, then they must have had a magical ability to know when some kid planned to shoot up his school--well in advance?

ghbucky · July 23, 2020, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Do people actually shoot all of their ammo at the range

see post 49

People make mistakes.

Ignition Override · July 23, 2020, 04:11 PM

ghbucky:

Upon more reflection, it's easy to imagine.
When I was young, about the only gun I ever touched-and seldom, at that--was the Savage .22.

Only got into guns at age 52, in 2007.

Bartholomew Roberts · July 23, 2020, 07:56 PM

Saw an interesting statistic today - gun sales are up 95% over last year; but ammo sales are up 139% over last year. So it seems not all those ammo sales are new owners.

ghbucky · July 24, 2020, 07:26 AM

Quote:

So it seems not all those ammo sales are new owners.

Sorry bout that.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 24, 2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

So it seems not all those ammo sales are new owners.

No, but shortages in general have a tendency to become self-propagating. It happened with the Obama-era ammo shortage, and it happened with the COVID-19 toilet paper shortage. There's a bit of a surge in purchases, word gets out that supplies are (or may be getting) tight, and suddenly everyone rushes out to stock up.

The current ammo shortage is like a perfect storm. It is being driven by civil unrest, that has resulted in people who had not previously considered owning a gun suddenly perceiving a need to be armed. And they are smart enough to understand that a gun without ammunition is a poor club ... so in addition to buying a gun they buy ammo.

Contrast that to gun sales. So gun sales are up 95% compared to last year. I'll surmise that not ALL of those extra 95% were sales to first-time gun owners. Many probably were, but probably not all. For those gun sales that went to people who already own firearms -- how often do you buy a gun and buy ammo for it at the same time? For handguns, at least, I'll guess that the vast majority of sales have been 9mm Parabellum. And I'll further conjecture that many were sold to people like members of this forum, who already owned at least one other pistol in 9mm. If they already owned a 9mm, they probably didn't need more ammo ... but ALL of the first-time gun buyers needed to buy ammo with or for their shiny new pistola.

And that may have created enough depletion of ammo stocks to trigger the crisis/shortage reaction, this setting in motion the self-propagating nature of such events.

aarondhgraham · July 24, 2020, 11:39 AM

"Main Cause of the Current Ammo Shortage?"

Guys like me who don't ever want to get caught short again,,,
Guys like me who stock up when the opportunity presents itself.

Aarond

.

Bartholomew Roberts · July 24, 2020, 01:00 PM

Eh, I’ve been through enough panics now that my big problem is thinking “That’s an insane price. I should sell off some of my stash and restock later.” But I can never bring myself to do it.

Geezerbiker · July 25, 2020, 04:45 AM

Same here. If I sell off some of my 9mm ammo, people will only accuse me of price gouging. That's a headache I don't need.

Tony

Ignition Override · July 25, 2020, 07:57 PM

AIMSurplus has tons of Russian 7.62x39.

500 rds. just arrived, to keep my reserve at a very high level.

Living 12 min. from the private shooting club, combined with being Retired, consumes lots of ammo.

scoobysnacker · July 26, 2020, 01:02 PM

It's not a normal panic or shortage, it's really a perfect storm.

Covid hits, leading to both people stocking up/hoarding (remember the toilet paper run?), and just as importantly it affected the manufacturing and shipment side. I've heard some places temporarily shut down or went to skeleton crews, and have had trouble getting the components and raw material to make/ship more ammo.

When you combine that with the apprehensions normal in a "shutdown of society", similar to hurricane season but spread across the world instead of just a coast, you quickly deplete what was stocked on the shelves. And what's left trickling in from reserves is all we have left.

Then, you toss in the next social crisis- "protests" (read- rioting and looting) popping up around the country, you make a lot of people nervous. Add to the mix the trend to "defund the police", and you get lawlessness + no police protection, which has led to the huge run on guns now (as well as ammo to stock those guns).
That's because a gentle soccer mom thinks avoiding the bad side of town isn't enough and wants a Glock; someone with just handguns now decides he wants an AR.

That's not even considering we're entering an election cycle, which tends to prompt a rush all by itself.

And consider, we aren't yet back to a fully opened society. Manufacturing and shipping of components in, shipping of ammo out- those might still be affected by covid.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 26, 2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmg1299

Main Cause of the Current Ammo Shortage?

Too many buyers, not enough bullets.

What more needs to be said?

Ignition Override · July 28, 2020, 02:40 AM

THe videos of the commune CHOP in Seattle, along with the troubles in Portland for weeks-though it seems to be in a smallish area--are the images which keep many people anxious.

And very limited umbers of those anxious people will ever go to those two cities.

Add to all of that the photos and videos of the St. Louis couple Inside their "gated" community (her handgun was a Toy...his was not).

Many people forgot that the St. Louis mayor, living on a nearby street, had already exposed personal data on some protestors who had caused trouble inside the city....

A guy told me that his neighbors--Far from That area--are Not Bright enough to distinguish between a totally unique event in the walled neighborhood where that specific, unpopular mayor (St. Louis) lives, and the vast numbers of Other neighborhoods where >>>nothing happened<<<.

The sky is falling!! I would love to sell some very over-priced guns to the dumbasses out there, but there is a glut of guns-- not ammo.

JJ45 · July 28, 2020, 05:30 AM

If you didn't stash up when there was no panic then you have been "whistling in the graveyard" so to speak.

Get it when you can.

7.62 man · July 28, 2020, 09:45 AM

It's getting so bad around here that I was talking to a small gun shop owner & he said he may have to close because he can't get enough guns or ammo shipments to stay open. He is not making any $$$ having people come in to look, because he has nothing for them to look at.

seanc · July 28, 2020, 10:36 AM

Ignition Override:

Quote:

THe videos of the commune CHOP in Seattle, along with the troubles in Portland for weeks-though it seems to be in a smallish area--are the images which keep many people anxious.

And very limited umbers of those anxious people will ever go to those two cities.

Those aren't the only 2 cities experiencing rioting/"mostly peaceful protesting":

Quote:

Add to all of that the photos and videos of the St. Louis couple Inside their "gated" community (her handgun was a Toy...his was not).

Many people forgot that the St. Louis mayor, living on a nearby street, had already exposed personal data on some protestors who had caused trouble inside the city....

Her gun wasn't a toy, it was an actual firearm. It was surrendered in an inoperable condition, we have no idea what condition it was at the time the trespassers invaded. Also, the mayor lived miles away and not in that gated community.

The sky isn't falling but there are events happening in a continuing and coordinated manner all across the country that have gone far beyond the initial triggering event. Other than that, you were spot on...

ghbucky · July 29, 2020, 08:59 AM

Quote:

My only intention was to point out the repetition of events of the Portland-Seattle Anarchist Axis, or the organized riots (by 'professional demonstrators'), which seem to have been over for a a while.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e2...ts/ar-BB17iRLD

The linked article is about the riots in Richmond, VA. I only ran across that news due to Andy Ngo reporting.

Reloadron · July 29, 2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

I’ve been looking for some extra ammo recently because my wife has finally decided to get her LTC but needs to brush up on her skills. I’ve seen ammo shortages before, especially during the Obama years, but this one seems different. I know there have been a lot of new gun buyers due to the Coronavirus outbreak and recent riots, but I thought the run on guns and ammo would’ve slowed down by now. Do any of you guys have any insight on the main cause of this shortage? Did some manufacturers have to shut down due to COVID-19 restrictions, did the new buyers buy more than expected, or is this mainly due to existing gun owners hoarding?

On any given day there is enough ammunition and enough toilet paper to meet the demand. Now when suddenly a demand surges prompted by any number of things the supply on the shelves rapidly depletes. We have all (pretty much all) seen it before and most of us will see it again. It doesn't really take much if any insight to figure it out. Due to increased demand certain commodities like ammunition and toilet paper vanish from the shelves of retailers and as fast as they are restocked they disappear. Really does not take much to induce a panic buying frenzy.

Ron

July 22, 2020, 09:15 PM	#56
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,856	Never take ALL your ammo to the range and never shoot ALL your ammo at the range. At least not any firearm & caliber that might be pressed into defensive service. Primarily handguns but not exclusively limited to them. Leave a box at home, that way when the kid burns through the ammo you took to the range, you still have some at home. Never shoot up ALL your defensive stuff at the range, or you're unarmed (out of ammo) if anything happens on the way home from the range. As far as lead mines in the US, I don't think they matter much, as the last lead SMELTER in the US was shut down many years ago. The lead we use in industry today comes already refined from overseas sources (a lot from China) nd from recycled lead here in the US. Literally any lead ore we dig out of the ground has to go outside the US to be refined, then come back for use. Don't know about copper, but since its not AS toxic as lead, some processing might still be going on inside the US. Either way, around the world a lot of the people who mine raw materials and the people who make things are shut down and a lot of the people who move things are barely managing. So it wouldn't surprise me at all that there is a shortage of materials, which always results in a shortage of end product. About the only thing we aren't short of is people telling other people what to do, or how wrong they are for doing what they're doing. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 22, 2020, 10:48 PM	#57
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Probably the constant tv scenes of urban chaos-but just in certain areas. * Also, images of the St. Louis couple Inside their very wealthy, Walled Community (how ironic-and where the Mayor lives) compounded the other images. That couple heard threats about being killed, killing their dog, and burning their house. THIS photo.....>>>>>>>>Note -----This photo might be in the backs of peoples' minds, from LA in '93.---- Some people can Now imagine being on the roof of their home, or standing in their front yard, although these Koreans were in a commercial area on their shops (this comment is for the people who don't know about this). Last edited by Ignition Override; July 23, 2020 at 01:57 AM.

July 23, 2020, 02:00 AM	#58
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	44 AMP: Do people actually shoot all of their ammo at the range, and assume--even in normal times--that there could never be another unanticipated panic? If they use all of their ammo, then they must have had a magical ability to know when some kid planned to shoot up his school--well in advance? Last edited by Ignition Override; July 23, 2020 at 04:08 PM.

July 24, 2020, 11:39 AM	#64
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Guys like me,,, "Main Cause of the Current Ammo Shortage?" Guys like me who don't ever want to get caught short again,,, Guys like me who stock up when the opportunity presents itself. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

July 23, 2020, 04:11 PM	#60
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	ghbucky: Upon more reflection, it's easy to imagine. When I was young, about the only gun I ever touched-and seldom, at that--was the Savage .22. Only got into guns at age 52, in 2007.

July 23, 2020, 07:56 PM	#61
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Saw an interesting statistic today - gun sales are up 95% over last year; but ammo sales are up 139% over last year. So it seems not all those ammo sales are new owners.

July 24, 2020, 01:00 PM	#65
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Eh, I’ve been through enough panics now that my big problem is thinking “That’s an insane price. I should sell off some of my stash and restock later.” But I can never bring myself to do it.

July 25, 2020, 04:45 AM	#66
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	Same here. If I sell off some of my 9mm ammo, people will only accuse me of price gouging. That's a headache I don't need. Tony

July 25, 2020, 07:57 PM	#67
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	AIMSurplus has tons of Russian 7.62x39. 500 rds. just arrived, to keep my reserve at a very high level. Living 12 min. from the private shooting club, combined with being Retired, consumes lots of ammo.

July 26, 2020, 01:02 PM	#68
scoobysnacker Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2015 Posts: 235	It's not a normal panic or shortage, it's really a perfect storm. Covid hits, leading to both people stocking up/hoarding (remember the toilet paper run?), and just as importantly it affected the manufacturing and shipment side. I've heard some places temporarily shut down or went to skeleton crews, and have had trouble getting the components and raw material to make/ship more ammo. When you combine that with the apprehensions normal in a "shutdown of society", similar to hurricane season but spread across the world instead of just a coast, you quickly deplete what was stocked on the shelves. And what's left trickling in from reserves is all we have left. Then, you toss in the next social crisis- "protests" (read- rioting and looting) popping up around the country, you make a lot of people nervous. Add to the mix the trend to "defund the police", and you get lawlessness + no police protection, which has led to the huge run on guns now (as well as ammo to stock those guns). That's because a gentle soccer mom thinks avoiding the bad side of town isn't enough and wants a Glock; someone with just handguns now decides he wants an AR. That's not even considering we're entering an election cycle, which tends to prompt a rush all by itself. And consider, we aren't yet back to a fully opened society. Manufacturing and shipping of components in, shipping of ammo out- those might still be affected by covid.

July 28, 2020, 02:40 AM	#70
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	THe videos of the commune CHOP in Seattle, along with the troubles in Portland for weeks-though it seems to be in a smallish area--are the images which keep many people anxious. And very limited umbers of those anxious people will ever go to those two cities. Add to all of that the photos and videos of the St. Louis couple Inside their "gated" community (her handgun was a Toy...his was not). Many people forgot that the St. Louis mayor, living on a nearby street, had already exposed personal data on some protestors who had caused trouble inside the city.... A guy told me that his neighbors--Far from That area--are Not Bright enough to distinguish between a totally unique event in the walled neighborhood where that specific, unpopular mayor (St. Louis) lives, and the vast numbers of Other neighborhoods where >>>nothing happened<<<. The sky is falling!! I would love to sell some very over-priced guns to the dumbasses out there, but there is a glut of guns-- not ammo.

July 28, 2020, 05:30 AM	#71
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	If you didn't stash up when there was no panic then you have been "whistling in the graveyard" so to speak. Get it when you can.

July 28, 2020, 09:45 AM	#72
7.62 man Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2009 Location: Cyber-world USA Posts: 258	It's getting so bad around here that I was talking to a small gun shop owner & he said he may have to close because he can't get enough guns or ammo shipments to stay open. He is not making any $$$ having people come in to look, because he has nothing for them to look at.