September 3, 2012, 09:12 PM | #1 |
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Something we dug up
This is something we found with a metal detector on our property about 20 years ago.. There is nothing that you can read on the gun and it is about 31 or 36 cal.. There is a lot of rust.
It is 5 shot and at least one ball is missing. I do not see any caps on it. The wood is about half gone and every time you handle it it does loose little bits of the guns surface rust Just some fun eye candy |
September 3, 2012, 09:30 PM | #2 |
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What a neat thing to find though. Oh, if only relics could talk.....
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September 3, 2012, 09:33 PM | #3 |
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Indy . . . Thanks! I knew I'd dropped that somewhere but couldn't find it!
What a great find . . . makes you wish that it could talk doesn't it? A nice find for sure! Thanks for sharing!
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September 3, 2012, 09:34 PM | #4 |
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A little WD40... and it'll be as good as new.
C
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September 3, 2012, 10:00 PM | #5 |
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Don't put WD40 on a good gun.
Ballistol and 4-0 steel wool will fix it right up. A five shot smallbore with Dragoon barrel does not compute. Flayderman says the one shown in several old references is a fake. Made up as a joke when collecting percussion Colts was a cheap hobby. |
September 3, 2012, 10:03 PM | #6 |
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It is good it does not talk, because if it did I would not be hanging around forums such as this, for me and my talking gun would be traveling the world putting on theatrical events and instead of you seeing this for free I am afraid you would have to pay (It is not me insisting on this its that damn Promoter he has no heart)...
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September 3, 2012, 10:34 PM | #7 |
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Have you considered having it restored
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September 4, 2012, 06:08 AM | #8 |
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Nice pic, thanks for sharing that. Alls we found on our property was OLD whisky bottles and "Health elixir"- small bottles once containing "Tincture of Opium" (good for anything that ails ya)...
Curious as to the part of the country your relic was found- has to have been in the ground for some while. Old battle field? Drunk wondering home, loses pistol? Galloping around and it fell from someone's belt? Someone throw it to be rid of incriminating evidence? As you said, too bad they cannot speak! I wonder what a CAT or similar scan would tell ya? Dun |
September 4, 2012, 07:13 AM | #9 |
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Hmmmm
Five shot with a Dragoon style barrel and a steel frame
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September 4, 2012, 07:15 AM | #10 |
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We live about 20 miles south of Indianapolis Indiana, As far as I know no battles here.. Never found anything else this cool, Mostly beer cans, can pull tabs etc..
Can not recall how deep it was in the ground. We really searched all around the spot we found it and found nothing else at all. I do assume the Loaded chambers to have Black Powder in them and treat as a loaded gun. |
September 4, 2012, 09:28 AM | #11 |
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Yup that is a nice find. I sure would like to know the history of this piece. All the action and places its been. Wouldn't that be great?
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September 4, 2012, 09:54 AM | #12 |
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As others have said, if that iron could talk. That is a remarkable find.
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September 4, 2012, 05:24 PM | #13 |
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Boy, what a project to work on.
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September 4, 2012, 08:10 PM | #14 |
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My grandfather plowed this one up in a field near here about 1941 or so. It's an 1849 Colt with five of its six chambers still loaded and one complete cap still on one nipple, along with remnants on some of the other nipples. This one was able to talk... a little anyway. On the butt is hand inscribed, "C Smith April 29 1861". Since the advent of computer data bases, I've been able to locate three pieces of correspondence from a C Smith to his boss, Nat Stein, in the University of Utah's manuscript library from three different places in present day southwest Montana; Red Rock Creek station, Junction station, and Horse Prairie station, all dated 1865. The signature on the letters is a spot on match to the inscribed name on the gun butt and there is absolutely no doubt it is the same C Smith.
The letters transcribe as follows: LETTER ONE Read (Red) Rock Aug 25th/65 Mr Stien Sir I have a favor to ask of you it is concerning Mr John Allen to and that is to go to Mr Downs and See if you can get the mair of his that he troubles So much a bout Mr Downs has a bridle Sadle and laryette and powder flask and Pouch and go to Thom ???? and get his gun that is John Double barrel you can see if it is all rite and Send gun and flask & pouch down on the coach to mee and the second teamster you Send Send him on the cutoff to Junction Station if you think he will do to trust with the mair Send mair Sadle and bridle & lariett by him and Then he will hear where I am at I think I shall be threw with ??? in Six days from to day PAGE TWO if I am not there he will find out from them there where I am at Send the Mair for Roob Tolde John that he would have the next man to bring him down to him I am going to use him my self to wride the gun will be a good thing in camp if you can get it with out to much trouble to your Self The auld fellow can’t write and he wants his gun and Mair with So I can use his I am a heap of trouble I think I can’t tell what you think but I recon you think the same yours C Smith LETTER TWO Read (Red) Rock Creek Aug 25th/1865 Friend Stien Sir You will Please Send me 3 Teamsters as I or one of my men ar going to the States as Soon as I can get a man for th?? ??? Send (me? the?) regular auld bull drivers for all the men I have had lately ar stage drivers as soon as they see Roob they ar going to get a String of Stock I want 3 hay forks I forgot to say any thing to Mr Thomas as he won’t now a bout them and some ox lashes I can’t tell how it is with you a bout geting such things but I must have the forks and there ain’t such a thing on the road oanly what I have got and the mule teamster broke the 1 I let them have I need the gun and ammunision all rite and am under obligation to you for your trouble and will be happy to settle for the same I have not had any more forks in camp since Yours Truley C Smith LETTER THREE Horse Prerray Station Oct 5th 1865 Mr Stien Sir you will Please Send Mee 5 lbs of chewing Tobaco and charge the Sum to mee And oblige yours C Smith
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September 4, 2012, 09:26 PM | #15 |
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WOW, that is like the someone coming back from the dead there.. That is TO AWESOME.....
Just a total side note I love the letter about sending the 5 lbs of tobacco It reminds me of one of the letters found from a Roman Soldier in Germany about 3rd century.. In the letter he is asking for some Socks to be sent to him.. It is cool things like that show you that People are just the same From Ancient history to today.. Just a few cultural differences.. |
September 4, 2012, 09:51 PM | #16 |
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You could sell that on Craig's List. It just has honest wear. No safe queen here. Sure looks vintage to me.
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September 4, 2012, 10:41 PM | #17 |
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ghost gun
wow, he's still talking even from the grave life and times of a cattleman
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September 4, 2012, 11:10 PM | #18 |
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Nat Stein started as an Overland driver in 1861 and eventually advanced to vice president of the company. C Smith appears to have been some sort of station manager in charge of at least three stage stations here. Sometime in the 1880's, there was a "John Allen & Company" here in Helena involved in mining, but I don't know if it would be the same John Allen mentioned by C Smith in his letter some twenty years prior in 1865.
Helena had its beginnings with a gold strike in 1864. The Colt was plowed up in a field ~10 miles east of "Last Chance Gulch" where the gold strike was. Helena's main street is named Last Chance Gulch to this day, and is built right atop the course of the strike. I can't even hazard a guess as to the significance of C Smith's date of April 29, 1861, nor can I guess when, or how, it may have been lost. C Smith may have met his end at the hands of Indians along the trail to old Fort Benton (the revolver was found maybe a hundred yards off the old trail), or it may have been lost accidentally on a trip to early day Helena. Who knows? Fascinating stuff, this history.
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September 5, 2012, 12:45 PM | #19 |
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jbar4ranch... Many thanks for sharing, you did some real nice research on this guy.. I have re-read this tale several time.. Of course in such things rarely do you get exact matches.. But its not a court of law so such leaps of faith are what makes it fun..
From the picture, it looks like you just need to fix that Mainspring and you would be good to go... Oh maybe using reduced loads Last edited by indy1919; September 5, 2012 at 12:54 PM. |
September 5, 2012, 12:53 PM | #20 |
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That's all pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.
The only thing I've ever found on our place is old farm and oil field equipment. |
September 5, 2012, 05:19 PM | #21 |
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Does indeed appear to be a CSO (Colt-Shaped Object). Presumably an 1849 Pocket if it's a 5-shot. Brass trigger guard, which has survived somewhat better than the rest of it.
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September 5, 2012, 05:31 PM | #22 |
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Be great if you can find a letter, diary or claim on losing that Colt. Then (with the provenance established) it would be worth quite a bit.
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September 5, 2012, 07:18 PM | #23 |
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Two great pieces of history
JBar,
Nice detecive work on a nice find. (Another gold strike in Helena). All, My only hesitation is what to me is clearly a dragoon style barrel on Indy's find. Perhaps a replacement barrel? You historians: Am I off base here?
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September 5, 2012, 07:45 PM | #24 |
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Probably octagonal, just rusted over making it look round in the pic.
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September 5, 2012, 07:53 PM | #25 |
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I dunno Hawg..
I think I can clearly see a transistion between the front (round part) of the barrel and the lug.
I think it is visible on both sides of the barrel. Perhaps Indy would share his opinion as to whether it appears the barrel started out round or octagonal. This is a reeeeeal long shot but how many of the original Leech and Rigdons are accounted for? Ooops Wait...No...five shots
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