OC carriers - Heads Up

SAWBONES · October 23, 2001, 12:06 PM

I've carried OC (Fox 1/2 oz. unit) for a couple years, believing as I do in having a continuum of force available for response to "unpleasant (read felonious) interpersonal experiences".

Trouble is, there's no easy way to carry the stuff.
Key chain units bulge your pockets, and can accidentaly discharge in the pocket.
The cheap plastic "holsters" sold with some units are impossible to fit over a thick, properly-constructed gunbelt, and it is assumed that most folks reading this missive are CCW holders who carry a sidearm, not just OC spray alone.
I improvised a belt holster using an elastic Mini-Maglite holster, and used this for a time, but found it flimsy and not altogether secure.
I appealed to holstermaker-cum-friend Gregg Garrett for a Kydex solution, sending him a blueprint for a design I thought would work well as a combined OC holder-key holder. He did me one better by modifying the design and making it simpler. It slips onto the belt by slipping underneath, not requiring removal of the belt, and holds the OC cannister horizontally, with a keyring attached beneath, to which you may attach a lanyard or whatever you like, to hold your keys.
It's Kydex, and he will be making them soon, for about $8, he thinks (a bargain). I think it's an excellent solution for carrying OC. (It can also hold a Surefire 6Z flashlight instead of OC, if you like.)
I have ABSOLUTELY NO COMMERCIAL INTEREST IN THIS (kickbacks, royalties, etc.). I'm merely passing on information about a useful CCW item. I'll try to post a pic when I can. Anyone interested can go to www.comp-tac.com and can email Gregg from there. Tell him I sent you!

Coronach · October 23, 2001, 11:34 PM

Speaking as one who had a cannister of Fox OC spray discharge in his pants (

) I can say that I am very interested in this option.

Any pics available?

Mike

C.R.Sam · October 24, 2001, 12:06 AM

Mike.....I wanna see a picture of the expression on your face when that thing went off in your pocket. What a neat way to get rid of the crowd wearin too much cologne or perfume in a theater.

Sam

Coronach · October 24, 2001, 08:59 AM

My face could best be described thus:

And then there was a mad scramble to get my pants OFF. Fortunately this happened in my house, as I was tying my shoelaces. I'm sitting there tying one shoe, then I move my leg and hear a strange *SWOOOOSH* sound and feel a dampness on my thigh...and see an orange stain spreading on my pant leg (chemical marker). If it had happened in public, I'm not sure what I would have or could have done.

Also, fortunately, the nozzle was aimed away from any, uhm, sensitive areas.

FWIW it was the Fox cannister with the 'safety' top. It seems that inside my pocket the safety switched off, and a few moments later I maced myself.

This also explains why I would never carry a pistol in my pocket without a holster.

Mike

SAWBONES · October 24, 2001, 09:37 AM

Those "safety" spray caps aren't very safe.
I've had 'em turn to the "spray" position by themselves, too, though since I've always carried the cannister on my belt, I've never actually discharged it in error.
The Kydex carrier doesn't prevent the safety top from turning, of course, but it does put the cannister in a location and an orientation where accidental spraying is unlikely.

If a duffer with digital picture taking, and only just got a camera for my birthday from my wife, but I'll try to take and post some pix of the dingus. Best.

C.R.Sam · October 24, 2001, 11:15 AM

Thanks for the pic Mike

I always use a pocket holster when pocket pistol packin but have been careless when packin OC spray. Have found safety off but no discharge.....quit carryin em in pocket.

Sawbones...thanks for the heads up re the OC carrier.

Sam

magnum_force · October 25, 2001, 04:11 AM

Please post pics. Yes the switch turned to the "on" position when carried in my pants pocket but it did not go off.

SAWBONES · October 25, 2001, 09:26 AM

I've posted some pix of the OC-keyring dingus at PCT.
Hopefully they're sufficient to give an idea of its shape and dimensions.
Go to http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/cg...c&f=6&t=000036 and scroll down.

Dave3006 · October 27, 2001, 08:27 PM

Go to the airtaser.com site. Look up the Royal Mounted Police test on the O.C. products. You will never carry this stuff again. It does not work on an agressive subject. You can't depend on it.

Coronach · October 27, 2001, 09:16 PM

It just doesn't work 100% of the time. I have seen many an 'aggressive' subject floored by the stuff. I have also seen a handful of subjects that did not react much at all.

I have seen people dead from gunshot wounds. I've also seen people walking and talking after having been shot.

Lets not carry guns either, I guess.

Mike

PS Moral: There is no 100% stopper.

Dave3006 · October 28, 2001, 04:15 PM

It may work sometimes. But, the failure rate is way too high to seriously consider it as a weapon. It is fine if you have back up with deadly force ready. However, for the average civilian, it is a bad decision. The odds of it failing are too high and it would delay you from deploying the proper weapon in the first place.

Coronach · October 28, 2001, 11:27 PM

Now that I will buy.

OC spray is an option only when nonlethal force is called for, and if you have something real to back it up. I think its range of application is somewhat narrowed by the so-called duty to retreat of the non-LEO citizen.

This is not what you said the first time.

Mike

Dave3006 · October 29, 2001, 10:56 AM

I should have said, "It does not work with a high enough probability on agressive individuals to be depended on in my opinion".

I would rather trust the airtaser as a non-lethal weapon. I even tried it on myself and it knocked me on my rear. Of course the airtaser has it's limitations too.

October 23, 2001, 12:06 PM	#1
SAWBONES Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: The third dimension Posts: 670	OC carriers - Heads Up I've carried OC (Fox 1/2 oz. unit) for a couple years, believing as I do in having a continuum of force available for response to "unpleasant (read felonious) interpersonal experiences". Trouble is, there's no easy way to carry the stuff. Key chain units bulge your pockets, and can accidentaly discharge in the pocket. The cheap plastic "holsters" sold with some units are impossible to fit over a thick, properly-constructed gunbelt, and it is assumed that most folks reading this missive are CCW holders who carry a sidearm, not just OC spray alone. I improvised a belt holster using an elastic Mini-Maglite holster, and used this for a time, but found it flimsy and not altogether secure. I appealed to holstermaker-cum-friend Gregg Garrett for a Kydex solution, sending him a blueprint for a design I thought would work well as a combined OC holder-key holder. He did me one better by modifying the design and making it simpler. It slips onto the belt by slipping underneath, not requiring removal of the belt, and holds the OC cannister horizontally, with a keyring attached beneath, to which you may attach a lanyard or whatever you like, to hold your keys. It's Kydex, and he will be making them soon, for about $8, he thinks (a bargain). I think it's an excellent solution for carrying OC. (It can also hold a Surefire 6Z flashlight instead of OC, if you like.) I have ABSOLUTELY NO COMMERCIAL INTEREST IN THIS (kickbacks, royalties, etc.). I'm merely passing on information about a useful CCW item. I'll try to post a pic when I can. Anyone interested can go to www.comp-tac.com and can email Gregg from there. Tell him I sent you! __________________ "Humani nihil alienum"

October 23, 2001, 11:34 PM	#2
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Speaking as one who had a cannister of Fox OC spray discharge in his pants ( ) I can say that I am very interested in this option. Any pics available? Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 24, 2001, 08:59 AM	#4
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	My face could best be described thus: And then there was a mad scramble to get my pants OFF. Fortunately this happened in my house, as I was tying my shoelaces. I'm sitting there tying one shoe, then I move my leg and hear a strange SWOOOOSH sound and feel a dampness on my thigh...and see an orange stain spreading on my pant leg (chemical marker). If it had happened in public, I'm not sure what I would have or could have done. Also, fortunately, the nozzle was aimed away from any, uhm, sensitive areas. FWIW it was the Fox cannister with the 'safety' top. It seems that inside my pocket the safety switched off, and a few moments later I maced myself. This also explains why I would never carry a pistol in my pocket without a holster. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 24, 2001, 09:37 AM	#5
SAWBONES Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: The third dimension Posts: 670	Those "safety" spray caps aren't very safe. I've had 'em turn to the "spray" position by themselves, too, though since I've always carried the cannister on my belt, I've never actually discharged it in error. The Kydex carrier doesn't prevent the safety top from turning, of course, but it does put the cannister in a location and an orientation where accidental spraying is unlikely. If a duffer with digital picture taking, and only just got a camera for my birthday from my wife, but I'll try to take and post some pix of the dingus. Best. __________________ "Humani nihil alienum"

October 25, 2001, 09:26 AM	#8
SAWBONES Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: The third dimension Posts: 670	I've posted some pix of the OC-keyring dingus at PCT. Hopefully they're sufficient to give an idea of its shape and dimensions. Go to http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/cg...c&f=6&t=000036 and scroll down. __________________ "Humani nihil alienum"

October 24, 2001, 12:06 AM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Mike.....I wanna see a picture of the expression on your face when that thing went off in your pocket. What a neat way to get rid of the crowd wearin too much cologne or perfume in a theater. Sam

October 24, 2001, 11:15 AM	#6
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Thanks for the pic Mike I always use a pocket holster when pocket pistol packin but have been careless when packin OC spray. Have found safety off but no discharge.....quit carryin em in pocket. Sawbones...thanks for the heads up re the OC carrier. Sam

October 25, 2001, 04:11 AM	#7
magnum_force Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2000 Posts: 185	Please post pics. Yes the switch turned to the "on" position when carried in my pants pocket but it did not go off.

October 27, 2001, 08:27 PM	#9
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	Go to the airtaser.com site. Look up the Royal Mounted Police test on the O.C. products. You will never carry this stuff again. It does not work on an agressive subject. You can't depend on it.

October 27, 2001, 09:16 PM	#10
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Bull It just doesn't work 100% of the time. I have seen many an 'aggressive' subject floored by the stuff. I have also seen a handful of subjects that did not react much at all. I have seen people dead from gunshot wounds. I've also seen people walking and talking after having been shot. Lets not carry guns either, I guess. Mike PS Moral: There is no 100% stopper. __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 28, 2001, 04:15 PM	#11
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	It may work sometimes. But, the failure rate is way too high to seriously consider it as a weapon. It is fine if you have back up with deadly force ready. However, for the average civilian, it is a bad decision. The odds of it failing are too high and it would delay you from deploying the proper weapon in the first place.

October 28, 2001, 11:27 PM	#12
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	OK Now that I will buy. OC spray is an option only when nonlethal force is called for, and if you have something real to back it up. I think its range of application is somewhat narrowed by the so-called duty to retreat of the non-LEO citizen. This is not what you said the first time. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 29, 2001, 10:56 AM	#13
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	I should have said, "It does not work with a high enough probability on agressive individuals to be depended on in my opinion". I would rather trust the airtaser as a non-lethal weapon. I even tried it on myself and it knocked me on my rear. Of course the airtaser has it's limitations too.