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Old July 21, 2001, 01:09 AM   #1
jakester
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EAA Witness 10mm

Looking for anyone how has shot a lot of ammo through their Witness 10mm. Want to set up a Witness 10mm competition gun but have heard too many rumors about cracked slides and other major problems. What I have read online seems quite the opposite, but they all seem to be relatively "new" guns.
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Old July 21, 2001, 01:34 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
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I just got one about 3 months ago. I'm intending to put heavier springs in it, as the one that comes with it seems to be pretty light.

I'll let you know in a couple more months.
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Old July 21, 2001, 01:04 PM   #3
TonyPoulos
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I bought a Wolff 18# recoil spring for my 10mm Witness just for s's and giggles and because other threads indicate the Witnesses are undersprung from the factory. It also comes with a firing pin spring is marked "Extra Power" for the rating type.

Tony
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Old July 22, 2001, 10:29 AM   #4
Peter M. Eick
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It depends upon what is a lot. I have about 5000 rnds down mine over the last 5 years, so that is really not a lot. Mine is reasonably tight, quite accurate (for what I paid for it). Excellent trigger, both in DA/SA. Crisp and smooth are the only words to describe it. It will feed nearly anything (even range ammo that someone else had left behind because it got wet.

I have only had one problem. I put an EAA adjustable sight on it and after 715 rnds it sheared off. EAA said the sight was not designed for the recoil. BUT, they replaced it and the fixxed sight for free.

It is important to get the magazines that have the extended feed lips, but if you are buying new this will not be an issue.

I have put a heavy spring in mine. The max wolff sells, but I do not remember the weight. Mine with max book loads will drop the brass about 2 foot over on the bench in a nice little pile.

It is easy to clean, easy to carry and has been my "truck" gun for 4 years. This is probably why I have not shot it much, it spends most of the time loaded and ready to go.

On your question of cracked slides etc. I really carefully looked mine over after the last cleaning and have found now problems.

Hope this helps.
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Old July 22, 2001, 09:29 PM   #5
Marcus
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I haven`t had my 10mm Witness long enough to really comment but if you`re serious call Evolution Gun Works and ask them. They`ve built some of the finest comp guns in the world and they have their own line of competition Witness parts. That alone should tell you something. Marcus
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Old July 22, 2001, 10:05 PM   #6
jakester
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Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback on the Witness. The gun dealers around here just seem deadset against EAA and the Witness pistol. The threads I have read here and across the net have alerted me to three problems: adjustable rear sights, weak recoil springs, and magazine followers. Heck, I love my old Springfield Armory 1911A1 in 45acp, and guess what.....it has new magazines, sights, recoil spring, guide rod, beavertail safety, hammer, sear, trigger, lowered ejection port, polished feed ramp, and grips. Did it function proir to all that...Yes, with 230 ball ammo. I am use to "tuning" a gun to my preference, so the Witness doesn't sound like anything new. Guess the Glock and Sig owners out there preverted everyone's mind into thinking you buy a gun, use it, and don't try to raise its performance level from box stock. Please keep this thread in mind if you experience or hear anything. Guess I'll call my "sympathetic" dealer this week and tell him to order my Witness. His last quote was $299 for a Witness FS 10mm in blue. Good price? Is the Wonderfinish worth the extra $20?

Thanks again.
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Old July 23, 2001, 01:01 AM   #7
J. Parker
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IMO, the Wonderfinish is well worth it for $20 bucks extra. It's nicer looking than blue and possibly more durable. I got a full size 10mm blued one a few months ago and I'm really impressed for $300 bucks. So far approx 200 rounds through it with no problems what-so-ever.
All I had was a box of hollowpoints when I brought it home. I normally don't "break in" a pistol with HP's but the Witness didn't seem to mind. It's a good, solid pistol and excellent value. Best Regards, J. Parker
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Old July 23, 2001, 12:52 PM   #8
TonyPoulos
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Jakester, get the Wonder Finish. Makes a nice contrast with the black rubber grips, which really give you a nice hold.

I suspect some dealers tend to bad mouth guns with lower markups and push the ones on which they can make more money. Good advice is sometimes hard to come by.

Tony
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Old July 23, 2001, 01:14 PM   #9
viesczy
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Hi.

While not owning a 10mm Witness, I do have a .38 S Witness that I have converted to 9x23. I have put in the Wolf 22lb recoil spring and things have been fine. I have about 3000 rounds of ammo through it (1200 of 9x23) and I have no frame problems.

Now the 10mm will have a bit more belt to it then the .38 S/9x23, but I'd suspect that the 22lb spring that I have in my 9x23/.38 S would be enough for the 10mm Witness.

I will say this, now that there is a 10mm compact in Wonder. . . my mouth is WATERING! There's always a reason to buy another 10mm!

Derek
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Old July 23, 2001, 09:47 PM   #10
Marcus
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IMO get the Wonder finish. According to Tanfoglio (who makes the Witness) it`s actually silver tenifer (yes the same stuff they use on Glocks). It has some lubricating qualities and it`s actually makes the surface of the steel harder. The Wonderfinish on the rails of my 10mm Witness shows no wear at all after a few hundred rounds. It`s also very easy to clean. Marcus
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Old July 24, 2001, 08:02 AM   #11
bpisler
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I bought a used witness compact 10mm
with the wonder finish,this is my 3nd
witness pistol,the others being a
compact and fuul size 45's.I've had no
problem with any of them,i did replace
the recoil/firing pin springs in the
45's with wolffs,my 10mm has a double
recoil spring in it but i don,t know if
it's factory or not.IMO the witness line
of pistols are underated and just te
best in the 300.00 to 400.00 dollar
range while i've only put 400
rounds thru my 10mm i don,t see any
problems with it yet,i fire mostly pmc
180gr med vel ammo but i've tried win
silvertips and fed classic 155gr
hollowpoints with no problems,but from
the short barrel they make a nice
fireball/muzzleblast


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Old July 24, 2001, 11:56 AM   #12
BrokenArrow
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If you can afford to shoot enough to wear it out, you can afford to replace it too?

How much is enough? I've heard not to expect it to last much past 20,000 rounds. Is that enough? Guy here had the slide crack on his at 25,000 w "mild" 10mm loads (200 at 900). Not enough for him since his 1911 has over 100,000 through it.

Could be typical, could be a fluke, who knows?
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Old July 25, 2001, 12:25 AM   #13
brianidaho
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While no one likes a firearm that may break, if a Witness does, send it back to EAA. Free lifetime warrenty. I may need to trade my .40 compact for the 10mm. Are the frame and slide wider on the 10 than the .40?

Bri
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Old July 29, 2001, 03:53 AM   #14
Peter M. Eick
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My 40 frame is the "small" frame while my 10mm is the "large" frame. The slides do not readily slide onto each other.

Hope this helps.
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Old August 29, 2001, 06:42 AM   #15
jakester
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Convinced

After much deliberation and research, I have decided to listen to the believers in the Witness pistol and order my own. Was considering a 10mm conversion in a 1911-style 40S&W pistol, but the cost factor have changed my mind. Found a dealer who'll get me a Witness Full size 10mm in Wonderfinish for $319 and additional mags for only $23/each. How can I pass up those prices. Will post my impressions later.
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Old January 5, 2002, 03:50 PM   #16
jakester
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Experience Update

Well, my last post said I ordered one....I did. They were back ordered for about two months and I gave up. Reconsidering the Witness 10mm vs. Para P16-40 (10mm ream out) now. Any more feedback from Witness 10mm owners?
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Old January 5, 2002, 05:29 PM   #17
BigMike
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jakester,
I also own a .45 fullsize witness. I have had no problems with mine and it really has been a dream to shoot.

I should also add that I have had poor experiences with their customer support at EAA. I have had better responses having Tanfoglio in Italy answer my questions. There is a thread at the CZ Forum in the CZ Clone section of a guy who had a horrible experience with EAA and was asked by the Pres. of EAA to return the pistol with a copy of his invoice, and asked never to buy a EAA product again. Yikes!

I know there are horror stories with everyone(dealers/manufacturers/importers) , but in my time here at TFL I tend to get sense that more people than not are left wanting when it comes to customer support from EAA. Just food for thought.

Hope this helps, Mike
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Old January 6, 2002, 05:45 AM   #18
Rob96
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Reading thru this post, I saw a referrence to contact Evolution Gun Works. I did just that , and he actually steered me away from getting a witness in 45acp or 10mm. If I can remember correctly he doesn't think the slide setup is right for either cartridge. All in all he wasn't very enthusiastic about Witness pistols. Maybe this was for a "carry" sense and not about for competition use. But in the same e-mail I questioned him on the CZ and he had no qualms with CZ's products.
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Old January 6, 2002, 10:34 AM   #19
Marcus
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Hmmm, George didn`t say anything bad about them when I spoke to him on the phone a few times. Of course maybe that`s because I already have mine? Or maybe it`s because I told him it was a carry gun? Bear in mind also that those guys are used to building $1500 guns that`ll last for 100,000rds.+ of competitive shooting/practice. I doubt I`ll put 10,000rds. through my 10mm in my lifetime. I can`t afford to shoot it any more than I do. Besides look at it this way,for the price of 500rds. of premium ammo you can buy another whole 10mm Witness. Marcus
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Old January 6, 2002, 04:32 PM   #20
Rob96
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Like I said, I can't really remember what the jist of the email was. I know it had to do with the slide dimensions and he ejection port. Hey, if yours works, thats all that counts.
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Old January 6, 2002, 04:32 PM   #21
nvrquit
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EAA 10mm Witness...& EAA's service(not)

Hello from nvrquit, a new member of TFL!

I am THE individual that was mentioned as having been asked to never purchase another EAA/Witness product again, following an offered buy-back from the president of EAA!

Now, for anyone that may be wondering what the heck has gone down to bring this about... please review trhe posts at the listed addresses and get back to me with your comments. Good, bad or indifferent, it doesn't matter. You will not be able to offend me. After having worked in fields relating to customer service of one type or another for 20+ yrs., I would doubt if you could offend me as I've just about heard it all. Here are the addresses:

http://pub69.ezboard.com/fczechpisto...opicID=8.topic

http://talk.shooters.com/room_30/20419.cfm

The first is for the CZ Forum under the post "Tanfoglio Reliability"

The second is Shooters.com under the post "EAA 10mm Compact Witness".

Read and enjoy!
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Old January 6, 2002, 05:46 PM   #22
WESHOOT2
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HELLO FROM OLD MEMBER

My last contact with EAA was in '95 or '96, and I was satisfied, but that's my nature.

My two small-frames have run trillions of rounds through them, all over-SAAMI IPSC Major.m

My 45ACP version is a total brass-back-in-face jam-o-matic, but it's SO ACCURATE I couldn't bring meself to sell it, so I installed a 38 Super Long-Slide.

Perfect.
Awesome.
Reliable (zero failures, even with the unbelievable crap brass I range-rat).
And accurate.

Looking forward to a full-size metal 10mm.
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Old January 6, 2002, 06:24 PM   #23
CastleBravo
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You can read my review of the EAA Witness 10mm I used to have here:

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/eaa.html

All of the gunsmiths I have talked to are skeptical about it being strong enough to stand up to 10mm Auto, but the main problem is that it is just undersprung from the factory. A new Wolff 20lb+ spring should make it stand up alot better.

Now a 10mm CZ-97... THAT would be something else!
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Old January 6, 2002, 06:52 PM   #24
nvrquit
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CasteBravo... CZ97B in 10mm, aahhh!

Yes, I too would very much like to see CZ bring out a 10mm version of the CZ97B. Would be nice if it was compact'd and melted, but I'd take a full size and never look back!

As for my 10mm Witness Comapct(Wonder finish), I really do like the pistol... however the service from EAA has been "spotty". The pistol is very accurate, the origianl finish was an even match on the slide in frame in color and texture. No nicks, dents, scratches, misaligned parts, alittle rubber "flash" on the grip panels but no big deal. It just didn't function worth a darn! Read the other sites for the details.

The attitude from some at EAA has been the downer, with the exception of one person. As I have offered elsewhere, when all options have been persued and the books are closed, I will make all info pertaining to this adventure available to those that wish to review them. That includes all communications from EAA and myself, nothing held back in any way.

Until then, the adventure continues!
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Old January 6, 2002, 06:55 PM   #25
agtman
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nvrquit:


After reading that thread recounting the absolutely pathetic treatment you received from EAA, all I can say is, you handled it better than I probably would have. You were extremely civil to them in what had to be extremely frustrating circumstances. Regardless of pistol or caliber involved, it simply doesn't speak well for EAA.

Quick question: somewhere among the posts in that thread, you expressed interest in the pre-sellout Smith 10mm series. Did you ever pick one up?

As far as I can recall, I've only read one post where someone claimed their Smith 10mm was a lemon. My experience has been consistently positive. I believe that to be true of others as well (from reviewing many posts on TFL and elsewhere).

Besides my 1076, which is the most accurate semi-auto I've ever owned, I've handled & shot the 1006 and 1066. All were very accurate, and 100% reliable. Not one FTF, fire, eject, extract, etc., and no magazine-related jams.

You mentioned being interested in a "compact all-steel 10mm," and while not as small as the Witness compact, the 4.25" barrelled 1076s & 1066s pack pretty slim & trim. But they are heavy SOBs. However, that weight, plus putting in a Wolff 20lb recoil spring, makes these "Commander"-sized Smiths quite controllable, even with the hot 10mm loads.

Concerns have been expressed that the 1076's Sig-style, frame-mounted decocker is "fragile," but I've never had any problem with mine - well over a thousand rounds. Still, Smith's traditional slide-mounted decocker is on the 1066 if the other is an issue.

To my knowledge, the 10mm version of the 4516-2 (the 1016?) never made it off the drawing boards. So the Smith 1076s/1066s were as "compact" as Smith ever offered.

Hope this helps.
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