Fatal Shooting with Uzi

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Vacca wasn't breaking any laws. His actions were inadvisable (and tragic), but they didn't break the law.

Sorry Sir. No mention of Vacca's name in my thread. My comment never said Vacca himself deliberately broke any Laws. As I see it Local Law Enforcement determined no Laws were broken. What I question is the weapons possession and its Leagality in such situation. (loaned to another to use) Frankly: The individual I believe who may have too share some responsibility in this tragic event is the weapons ATF registered owner. Who is He/she? Was that individual present or on site at the time of their restricted weapons firing? Did that individual make an attempt to intervene seeing such event taking place?
As far as license/s in regards to F/A weaponry that Sir was figuratively written. Permit/s if you prefer. My bad.

To purposely put F/A firearms the hands of children or others not entitled to have in their possession such F/A weaponry or any firearm period. Is a illegal change in possession is it not.

I was under the impression Felons and those not court expunged of their crime which precludes one to have in their (possession) any type firearm is a violation of the Law.
As far as under age children. That is exactly what they are. To young under Law to purchase new. Used weapons. If the Law can prove negligence of the parent/s or some other in charge of the child. Concerning that child's actions to where that child had uninhibited access to a weapon. We both know who's going to be held accountable for Fines and out of court Wrongful Law suites. Thus a Law must have been broken Sir. In this situation no one seems to want to press charges. Not even the County Prosecutor {for the time being it appears.}_"But it ain't over till its over."_ Outside pressure to do something will come to bare on that Local Law establishment. In either case. Felon or underage child. There is that possibility someone's always going to give financially or their freedom. Perhaps both. To satisfy Lady Justice.

[Tom Servo]

As far as license/s in regards to F/A weaponry that Sir was figuratively written. Permit/s if you prefer.

It's not what I prefer. When we're talking about legal issues, it's incumbent upon us to use very precise language.

Frankly: The individual I believe who may have too share some responsibility in this tragic event is the weapons ATF registered owner.

We have no way of knowing whether or not Vacca was the owner at the moment. Even if it was owned by the range, it's perfectly legal for her to be in possession of the firearm.

We both know who's going to be held accountable for Fines and out of court Wrongful Law suites. Thus a Law must have been broken Sir.

Nope. Civil litigation can be brought without a law being broken.

[SPEMack618]

The morning talk shows, from Fox to MSNBC, were all over this again this morning.

Tom Servo is right, they are frothing at the bit to dance in this blood.

It really has everything for them to exploit, scary black gun, a real life machine gun, a little girl, and an instructor with a military back ground.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Unfortunately, said 'instructor' gave them the material to exploit. However, there is a reasonable evaluation of the ill thought out actions of 'said' instructor.

If you want to argue for the possession of articles of lethal force, you should keep your own house in order.

Zealotry is not an excuse for stupidity. We have to argue for the RKBA but we also have to be prime examples of why it is a reasonable thing for society to support.

Not to expect folks unfavorably inclined to pounce on this is naive. However, realistic critiques for that range and its practices are well deserved.

[Gary L. Griffiths]

We have to argue for the RKBA but we also have to be prime examples of why it is a reasonable thing for society to support.

I've never seen it expressed better or more succinctly.

My thoughts on the matter, exactly!

[SPEMack618]

I confess sort of a morbid fascination with how the media is covering this.
Their barely concealed glee is horrible to watch.
I mentioned to my girlfriend last night while watching Hillary Clinton speak that nothing was as bad to when one of the anti-gun politicians was parroting the same talking points you had discussed with your gunner friends online.

All I'm reminded of is what it says about being an ambassador for the shooting community on the back of my NRA Instructor card.

[44 AMP]

What I question is the weapons possession and its Leagality in such situation. (loaned to another to use)

While you are perfectly correct to question it, you are incorrect in automatically assuming a law is being broken.

Full Auto arms are in a legal world all their own. Some can be legally owned by individuals, some cannot be. Corporations and trusts can legally own them.

Also, there are situations machinegun "rentals" are allowed.

Firing the gun under the direct supervision of the registered owner (or their designated representative) is something else. Generally, the law does not prohibit this, for anyone who is not a prohibited person.

Age requirements for purchase are a different matter again, and don't confuse the two. Minors are routinely allowed to use firearms under "supervision", such as while hunting, that they would not be able to purchase legally.

It's a tangled web, and sometimes seems contradictory, but at this time, as far as I know, its not a crime for ranges to let people shoot their guns.

[Mokumbear]

I wonder why the parents thought their little girl would be interested
in firing an UZI. I also wonder if she had ever been to a range before.

I let my daughter know that if she ever wanted to learn, I would
be happy to take her to the range. I didn't want her to think she would
ever need to sneak around and "borrow" dad's gun, like me.

I inherited his "pea shooter". Never use it but it's another fond memory of him.
I wish he offered to take me shooting but I guess that's how it goes, having grown up in the liberal northeastern US.

She never indicated an interest and I didn't push the matter.

BTW, the liberal media is surely frothing over this incident.
This CNN article, as predicted, argued that this incident should
be cause for banning all "assault rifles".

I can't connect the dots but they are using it for all it's worth:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/opinio...html?hpt=hp_t3

[Double Naught Spy]

Both my daughters were shooting by 6 years of age. Both expressed interest in doing so. That a 9 year old would want to shoot full auto is NO surprise.

[Tom Servo]

This CNN article, as predicted, argued that this incident should
be cause for banning all "assault rifles".

I fully expected that. The next time Feinstein trots out her revised AWB, expect it to be accompanied by that video running in a loop.

There's really no way we come out ahead on this politically. Our opponents have positioned themselves as the only compassionate people in this debate, and they've learned to play the won't someone think of the children card to the hilt.

As for the article, it's a mess, but the readership won't care. The 2A is about the National Guard and slavery. I've been seeing them hammer these points ever since S. 649 went down in flames last year.

We've been forced into a defensive position, and count out any reform/repeal of Hughes/NFA for another decade after this.

[44 AMP]

I'd like to point out, to all those who say we need licensing and testing oversight, etc., that the devil is in the details.

Look at what they did to the idea of ALLOWING pilots to have a gun in the cockpit. (it was never "arming" pilots, no matter what the sound bytes said)

They created such a restrictive set of requirements very few could or would meet, in order to be "authorized".

Given half a chance they will do it to shooting ranges as well....

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was surprised - I was watching the NBC evening news today and they had a very positive story about young people learning to shoot with appropriate supervision. Discussed the positive benefits of the sport, family bonding, etc.

One neg. child expert who gave a brief mention of needing supervision but didn't have a tantrum. Wonder how that story got by the powers.

[44 AMP]

Wonder how that story got by the powers.

token attempt at fairness, perhaps?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Sometimes there are secret gun folks in media that run a piece before they are caught. One can hope.

[SPEMack618]

I think a lot of the positive stories we see, and by no means am I implying that they are a bad thing always seem to focus on the recreational aspects of shooting.

In other words, small bore sporter matches or 3-P air matches. And of course, plenty of trap with nice (and PC) over-unders.

I doubt we'll ever see a story focused on the 3-Gun Junior division.

[Skans]

... but I've given plenty of people check rides on SMGs as part of my job, and I can tell you that it didn't include letting them pop off one round on semi and then flipping the switch to Group Therapy and letting them hold back the trigger on a full stick, whether they were 9 or 90.

Can someone translate this for me???

[zukiphile]

but I've given plenty of people check rides on SMGs as part of my job, and I can tell you that it didn't include letting them pop off one round on semi and then flipping the switch to Group Therapy and letting them hold back the trigger on a full stick, whether they were 9 or 90.

I put it through google translate...

...however I have introduced many people to sub machine guns in my work, and I can tell you that I didn't let them proceed directly from one single action shot to fully automatic fire on a full magazine, and their age was not a consideration.

[grass range]

Stupid parent; stupid range guy