Game over for the 40 S&W. Say it ain't so! - Page 6

pblanc · September 21, 2016, 03:35 PM

I think it is safe to say that .40 S&W has seen a recent decline in popularity, especially since the FBI announced its intention to move back to 9mm Luger, but that sure doesn't mean it is going away.

I have pistols chambered in 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP and enjoy shooting them all. They are all potentially effective and potentially ineffective when it comes to self-defense. I do tend to favor .40 S&W in mid-sized carry guns like my SIG P229R or Beretta mini-Cougar 8040F. I tend to favor 9mm in compact and subcompact pistols where magazine capacity becomes an issue, and recoil management is more problematical. And I like .45 ACP in full-sized handguns for home defense, especially all metal ones.

I agree with DHart that there seems to be animosity directed towards the .40 S&W that does not seem entirely rational to me. I see this mostly coming from fans of 9mm Luger, but also from fans of .45 ACP, 357 SIG, and especially 10 mm.

I understand that some people do not like its recoil characteristics, and fortunately those folks have other options. I do not entirely understand the argument that .40 S&W was never "needed". My response is "so what?" It exists and is a viable choice in SD handgun caliber IMO. We probably have many more models and styles of motorcars and trucks than we NEED, but choice is good.

Oysterboy · September 21, 2016, 04:22 PM

Oops, I did it again. Another two 250 packs of UMC 40sw 180 MC went home with me today.

Dashunde · September 21, 2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP

I always favored the .40 S&W round and carried a Glock 22 on duty. I live in the West now and our local gun shops DO NOT STOCK .40 cal weapons and stock a minimum of the ammo on the shelves. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm during the warm weather months, but would like to step up the size and caliber of my EDC during cold weather months. Too much local talk about the 'dying .40 cal' for my tastes. I would love a recommendation or two for a concealable .40 to meet my needs. Also, should I consider the .45 over the .40? What would you recommend then?

I too favor the 40 above all others, a couple of thoughts/questions regarding above...

Is there a Walmart, Bass Pro, Cabela's or whatever around somewhere?
If the locals tend to shy away from 40, then the LGS probably won't have much of it sitting on the shelf collecting dust waiting for you to move into town.

Let "local talk" go in one ear and out the the other.. except for farming, road work/closures, or the best places to fish, of course.

Concealable 40 you ask? Glock 27. Awesome little gun and your already familiar with it.

Should you consider the 45? Sure, who am I to discourage. But they tend to either be a) thicker, b)heavier, c) both thicker and heavier, d)usually less capacity.
If I had to carry a concealable 45 it would likely be the G36.

I'm also one of those folks to thinks the 40 gives up little to the 45, and makes up for any slight advantage with capacity, generally smaller frames/slides, and ammo costs.

With the Glock 27 you always have the option of adding aftermarket barrels to run 9mm, 40, 357sig, and others.
Plus, the mags from the G23 and G22 will fit the G27.

DHart · September 21, 2016, 07:08 PM

OP... Have a good look at the Sig P320 Compact or Sub Compact in 40.

P320 Compact

The M&P40C is another good, compact 40 that handles the caliber well and comfortably.

DHart · September 21, 2016, 07:09 PM

Pblanc... Good post. We see things quite the same way.

volkstrm · September 21, 2016, 09:36 PM

Hello there o4l. I 2nd the 357sig. I IMO think its the best s/d caliber out there. It's got better stopping power then the 9mm,40s&w & the 45acp. Now you can try to say that the 10mm is king but it does not have the round count that the 357sig has & needs a much bigger gun also. We are talking semi-auto handguns. I really think that if the 357sig came out before or at the same time as the 40s&w the 357sig would be used by most of the L/E today & c/c as well.

Oysterboy · September 21, 2016, 10:17 PM

The 357sig case has the same diameter as the 10mm case so the round count is moot.

Here's my sub-compact 10mm. 10+1 rounds to go.

how to do a screen shot

ThomasT · September 21, 2016, 10:30 PM

To the OP. If you like the 40SW then its not game over. It doesn't matter what some military, police force or government agency uses. If you like it that all that matters.

Just remember what is new will be old and what is old will be new again. If the FBI goes back to the 9mm then someday they will have a failure to stop and agents will be killed and the search for a new round will start all over again. And then the 45acp, 10mm and 40S&W will be considered all over again.

Then a new testing program will begin and new bullets will be designed to reach some magic depth and expansion and the world will be safe again. Until the next failure to stop.

Stock up on ammo and reloading componants and know your round of choice is safe. It only has to make one person happy. And thats you.

K_Mac · September 21, 2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Stock up on ammo and reloading componants and know your round of choice is safe. It only has to make one person happy. And thats you.

Sound advice. The corollary of choosing a service round that makes you happy is that choice will offend others. The older I get the less I care what others think...

DHart · September 21, 2016, 10:46 PM

Quote:

The older I get the less I care what others think...

Same here. Isn't it great!

Oysterboy · September 21, 2016, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Sound advice. The corollary of choosing a service round that makes you happy is that choice will offend others. The older I get the less I care what others think...

Amen.

Bongo Boy · September 22, 2016, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Heck, a sharp knife can easily puncture car steel these days.

I'm going to assert that a reasonably sharpened pencil in the hands of a 5-year-old will puncture most areas of a car body these days.

DHart · September 22, 2016, 11:10 PM

Quote:

I'm going to assert that a reasonably sharpened pencil in the hands of a 5-year-old will puncture most areas of a car body these days.

Hahaha! Yes, indeed. Cars these days are virtually shrouded with thick tin-foil. Some of them look beefy, but they are sheep in wolf's clothing.

Most pistol rounds can fly through car doors with ease, and keep going and going.

SDF880 · September 23, 2016, 01:29 AM

Picked up some more Ranger T today to feed my 40's...it ain't over here!

agtman · September 23, 2016, 08:31 AM

Was at one of the LGSs yesterday ...

Dealer's "pre-owned" shelves don't lie. Evidence of massive .40-dumpage observed.

Folks stampeding over to the 9-minimeter?

DHart · September 23, 2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Was at one of the LGSs yesterday ...

Dealer's "pre-owned" shelves don't lie. Evidence of massive .40-dumpage observed.

Folks stampeding over to the 9-minimeter?

You got it agtman. Lemmings have been busy on a race to the bottom.

DHart · September 23, 2016, 11:51 AM

I was at my FFL dealer yesterday picking up a new M&P40 Compact and asked him if other customers were buying .40s. He said absolutely; there are plenty of lovers of .40 caliber who are buying them.

It's mostly (not ALL) the uncertain shooters who feel the need to follow whatever the crowd is doing who are dumping 40 and rushing to 9mm. It's the populist trend at the moment.

My dealer is also a Sheriff possee and he said his agency was going from 40 to 9mm as a cost reduction measure. A move he wasn't all that happy about.

JDBerg · September 29, 2016, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashunde

Is there a Walmart, Bass Pro, Cabela's or whatever around somewhere?

Wally sells the Fed Champion Aluminum case .40S&W for the same price as the .45ACP, so I have to go with the .45 ACP. And my Gen4 Glock 21 shoots it very nicely

**Mike Irwin** · September 30, 2016, 10:43 AM

"The 40 was a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question no one asked."

Sort of like the .45 ACP...

When you get right down to it, just about every handgun and rifle round that has ever been developed has been a solution in search of a problem.

That's just the way it is, really.

As for the .40, I finally joined the .40 club a few months ago when I stumbled onto a lightly used S&W 410 for right around $300.

Couldn't pass that up.

DHart · September 30, 2016, 02:42 PM

You're right on, Mike.

Every caliber was a solution in search of a problem. That's a dumb expression that is repeated mindlessly because some people think it sounds cool.

Oysterboy · September 30, 2016, 03:10 PM

Y'all know how many calibers we have?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gun_cartridges

RUT · September 30, 2016, 03:11 PM

>>That's a dumb expression that is repeated mindlessly because some people think it sounds cool.<<

Oh good, I'm not the only one who feels that way!

jimbob86 · September 30, 2016, 03:12 PM

[QUOTE"The 40 was a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question no one asked."

Sort of like the .45 ACP...
][/QUOTE]

That last part is patently untrue, Mike. The "problem", for the Army, was that the .38 Long Colt was too weak, and other counties were using newfangled self loading pistols and they wanted one, too ..... they did some testing in 1904 and concluded that they wanted a.45 cal bullet, as a minimum. JM Browning was working with them on an autoloading pistol in .41 cal .... and adapted it to a larger bullet ..... voila': The .45ACP.

Therefore, the .45ACP was the solution to several problems that The Army, Colt, and John Moses Browning asked ..... I would have expected you to know that, Mike. ..... but as DHart noted, some people say stuff because it sounds cool, true or not .......

agtman · September 30, 2016, 05:51 PM

Yep. Was just at the LGS yesterday where I was heroically rescuing an HRA service-grade Garand from tawdry oblivion.

Anyway, I happened to pass the counter of shelves stuffed with "pre-owned" pistols on the way to the background check and cash-out section ... and what do I spy, of course? Ooodles of trade-in .40s.

Massive .40-dump age continues. No surprise there, dudenals.

Move on.

Oysterboy · September 30, 2016, 06:17 PM

Their loss.

September 30, 2016, 10:43 AM	#144
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,641	"The 40 was a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question no one asked." Sort of like the .45 ACP... When you get right down to it, just about every handgun and rifle round that has ever been developed has been a solution in search of a problem. That's just the way it is, really. As for the .40, I finally joined the .40 club a few months ago when I stumbled onto a lightly used S&W 410 for right around $300. Couldn't pass that up. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 30, 2016, 03:11 PM	#147
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Posts: 823	>>That's a dumb expression that is repeated mindlessly because some people think it sounds cool.<< Oh good, I'm not the only one who feels that way! __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

September 21, 2016, 03:35 PM	#126
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	I think it is safe to say that .40 S&W has seen a recent decline in popularity, especially since the FBI announced its intention to move back to 9mm Luger, but that sure doesn't mean it is going away. I have pistols chambered in 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP and enjoy shooting them all. They are all potentially effective and potentially ineffective when it comes to self-defense. I do tend to favor .40 S&W in mid-sized carry guns like my SIG P229R or Beretta mini-Cougar 8040F. I tend to favor 9mm in compact and subcompact pistols where magazine capacity becomes an issue, and recoil management is more problematical. And I like .45 ACP in full-sized handguns for home defense, especially all metal ones. I agree with DHart that there seems to be animosity directed towards the .40 S&W that does not seem entirely rational to me. I see this mostly coming from fans of 9mm Luger, but also from fans of .45 ACP, 357 SIG, and especially 10 mm. I understand that some people do not like its recoil characteristics, and fortunately those folks have other options. I do not entirely understand the argument that .40 S&W was never "needed". My response is "so what?" It exists and is a viable choice in SD handgun caliber IMO. We probably have many more models and styles of motorcars and trucks than we NEED, but choice is good.

September 21, 2016, 04:22 PM	#127
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	Oops, I did it again. Another two 250 packs of UMC 40sw 180 MC went home with me today.

September 21, 2016, 07:08 PM	#129
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	OP... Have a good look at the Sig P320 Compact or Sub Compact in 40. P320 Compact The M&P40C is another good, compact 40 that handles the caliber well and comfortably.

September 21, 2016, 07:09 PM	#130
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	Pblanc... Good post. We see things quite the same way.

September 21, 2016, 09:36 PM	#131
volkstrm Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2007 Posts: 222	Hello there o4l. I 2nd the 357sig. I IMO think its the best s/d caliber out there. It's got better stopping power then the 9mm,40s&w & the 45acp. Now you can try to say that the 10mm is king but it does not have the round count that the 357sig has & needs a much bigger gun also. We are talking semi-auto handguns. I really think that if the 357sig came out before or at the same time as the 40s&w the 357sig would be used by most of the L/E today & c/c as well.

September 21, 2016, 10:17 PM	#132
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	The 357sig case has the same diameter as the 10mm case so the round count is moot. Here's my sub-compact 10mm. 10+1 rounds to go. how to do a screen shot

September 21, 2016, 10:30 PM	#133
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,773	To the OP. If you like the 40SW then its not game over. It doesn't matter what some military, police force or government agency uses. If you like it that all that matters. Just remember what is new will be old and what is old will be new again. If the FBI goes back to the 9mm then someday they will have a failure to stop and agents will be killed and the search for a new round will start all over again. And then the 45acp, 10mm and 40S&W will be considered all over again. Then a new testing program will begin and new bullets will be designed to reach some magic depth and expansion and the world will be safe again. Until the next failure to stop. Stock up on ammo and reloading componants and know your round of choice is safe. It only has to make one person happy. And thats you.

September 23, 2016, 01:29 AM	#139
SDF880 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2009 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 390	Picked up some more Ranger T today to feed my 40's...it ain't over here!

September 23, 2016, 08:31 AM	#140
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Was at one of the LGSs yesterday ... Dealer's "pre-owned" shelves don't lie. Evidence of massive .40-dumpage observed. Folks stampeding over to the 9-minimeter?

September 23, 2016, 11:51 AM	#142
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	I was at my FFL dealer yesterday picking up a new M&P40 Compact and asked him if other customers were buying .40s. He said absolutely; there are plenty of lovers of .40 caliber who are buying them. It's mostly (not ALL) the uncertain shooters who feel the need to follow whatever the crowd is doing who are dumping 40 and rushing to 9mm. It's the populist trend at the moment. My dealer is also a Sheriff possee and he said his agency was going from 40 to 9mm as a cost reduction measure. A move he wasn't all that happy about.

September 30, 2016, 02:42 PM	#145
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	You're right on, Mike. Every caliber was a solution in search of a problem. That's a dumb expression that is repeated mindlessly because some people think it sounds cool.

September 30, 2016, 03:10 PM	#146
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	Y'all know how many calibers we have? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gun_cartridges

September 30, 2016, 03:12 PM	#148
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	[QUOTE"The 40 was a solution in search of a problem, an answer to a question no one asked." Sort of like the .45 ACP... ][/QUOTE] That last part is patently untrue, Mike. The "problem", for the Army, was that the .38 Long Colt was too weak, and other counties were using newfangled self loading pistols and they wanted one, too ..... they did some testing in 1904 and concluded that they wanted a.45 cal bullet, as a minimum. JM Browning was working with them on an autoloading pistol in .41 cal .... and adapted it to a larger bullet ..... voila': The .45ACP. Therefore, the .45ACP was the solution to several problems that The Army, Colt, and John Moses Browning asked ..... I would have expected you to know that, Mike. ..... but as DHart noted, some people say stuff because it sounds cool, true or not .......

September 30, 2016, 05:51 PM	#149
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Yep. Was just at the LGS yesterday where I was heroically rescuing an HRA service-grade Garand from tawdry oblivion. Anyway, I happened to pass the counter of shelves stuffed with "pre-owned" pistols on the way to the background check and cash-out section ... and what do I spy, of course? Ooodles of trade-in .40s. Massive .40-dump age continues. No surprise there, dudenals. Move on.

September 30, 2016, 06:17 PM	#150
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	Their loss.