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April 24, 2011, 06:52 PM | #126 |
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Somewhere there has to be a reliable source for gang / mob state of mind, I think most of are speculating otherwise. Having a source for info would be a great help. Does Atlanta have a gang task force? If so, what do they have to say about surviving such a attack?
I find it interesting many say not to show fear ( but not escalate by making eye contact ) when engaging a aggressive dog but some here are advising just to give up and comply with a gang. While giving up may work with a gang whose sole purpose is to rob, it isn't going to work with one that is intent on a general beat down as they are going to go for the softest targets. I'll speculate gangs rely on primal levels of behavior since apparently civilized behavior has not been taught. |
April 24, 2011, 07:07 PM | #127 | ||
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For example, Metrotown enacts a concealed-carry law. They also beef up community policing initiatives. Crime drops. Can we claim with 100% accuracy that the drop was due to the concealed-carry law? Our opponents will claim the opposite, and either side can claim that the numbers prove them right. I believe that there's a correlation. But if I'm going to use it in a debate, I need to be sure I can prove it. Quote:
In any case, MARTA tends to have stations in some pretty colorful areas, and it attracts some colorful folks. While I've seen and heard some pretty weird stuff, violence is relatively uncommon considering the surrounding areas. To be honest, this could have happened anywhere. These guys just happened to pick a MARTA train that night.
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April 24, 2011, 07:57 PM | #128 |
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Having a Rambo mindset is just in the movies, in real life it just doesn't go down like that.
This is interesting because I haven't seen any responses on this thread to be wannabe Rambo, Charles Bronson, Dirty Harry or whatever other cliche might come up. What I do see are people willing to protect themselves from what a reasonable person would assume to be threat of serious bodily injury or death. Sometimes submission can work, sometimes it will embolden attackers. If a criminal with 29 friend wants my wallet, he can have it. If he wants my wife, well, submission is not an option. We've all been in "real life" situations. It's not a one-size-fits-all world. |
April 24, 2011, 09:03 PM | #129 | |
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all the best ps- someone mentioned clint: "The hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as the worms." Some people are just not willing to be a victim. That doesn't mean we're going to draw when its not a good idea. I'll trust my gut with the odds in my head+roll the dice. that's all I can do in this exact situation. pps-the movie thing is just a 'play' on the movie saga going on in this thread... |
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April 24, 2011, 09:14 PM | #130 | |
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God bless, Alaska |
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April 24, 2011, 09:32 PM | #131 | |
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In addition, he was arrested and initially charged with attempted murder which was later dropped after the grand jury failed to indict him. Not sure why everyone keeps over looking this real example of serious intent to do harm and men actually continuing to press the attack even after he backed up, warned them twice and then started shooting away. Multiply the 8 to 30 and now we are talking Rambo type of tactics to overcome that mob. My vote is that you will fail if you try in such a no win situation. Probably better to run and seek refuge if possible. Might help you avoid a whole lot of legal problems, both civil and criminal. Take a look at the follow up to where he stands now. http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_n...4d03a1ebb.html |
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April 24, 2011, 10:53 PM | #132 |
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From the repeatedly posted article above, this is the guy attacked by things outside a bar at 12:30 am:
Johnson was located in a bedroom, where police also found a syringe loaded with a brown liquid that police believe was heroin A 27-year-old North Idaho man, who was involved in a downtown Coeur d'Alene shooting incident in December 2009, has now been arrested for suspected drug activities. A few months ago, Johnson was charged with carrying a concealed weapon while under the influence, which is a misdemeanor. That charge is connected to the shooting incident. May not have been he most level-headed person to begin with. Doesn't really help your argument. |
April 24, 2011, 10:59 PM | #133 |
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Fair enough folks, I will relent. I post a real life situation where the attackers advanced on a retreating and warning and firing CCW holder. Yeah, he wasn't the smartest animal we have in the CCW ranks, but this is a real life event of advancing AGAINST gunfire, something I have been told on this thread a dozen times over won't happen. Well, it did, plain and simple no matter how you wish to argue with the facts.
In any case, I join the others that have no argument to win here folks, I mean why argue with the facts. Just posting a real life incident to counter the fantasies presented by quite a few on how people will simply stop their attack because you have a gun and actually using it. I part this thread only to say, good luck if you feel secure in that situation with one gun against 30 thugs wishing to do you harm, yes, good luck. God bless, Alaska444 |
April 25, 2011, 08:22 AM | #134 | |
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Are you convinced yet that the overwhelming majority of gang or group attacks retreat when shots are fired? |
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April 25, 2011, 08:27 AM | #135 |
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threegun, people have been known to do it.
You do realize Alaska444 did prison ministry, and has firsthand experience with the types of people being discussed, right? I think we've all read about BG's advancing on guns. I think we've all seen COPS or America's Wildest etc where BG's have engaged and advanced on multiple cops, with shots fired. And that's dealing with a single BG vs multiple good guys, not 30 BG's vs 1. I suspect Alaska444 is closer to the mark about what would happen than you are. As others have noted, it's a moving train. Where are the kids going to go? Not to say, don't defend yourself if actually attacked. Just saying, I wouldn't initiate anything unless I was convinced it had come down to that. The only situation where I would, involves Al Qaeda or Taliban types, since I'd rather not end up on video getting my head cut off. I think you'll find most of us who work in areas where those guys are have that mindset over there, since we're pretty sure we wouldn't survive capture for long. But in the US, or most other places? De-escalate where possible. |
April 25, 2011, 08:59 AM | #136 | |
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Tom,
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In Texas murder rates dropped 50 percent faster than the national average. Rape fell 93 percent faster than the national average. Better policing? Coincidence? To you perhaps. To contrast crime is significantly higher in states without right to carry laws. Using your logic these areas never "beef up" community policing. If I recall Clinton funded more police for some of these anti gun states. So it didn't help them as you suggest. |
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April 25, 2011, 09:50 AM | #137 | |
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Mleake,
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Video evidence does however overwhelmingly show that most multi person attackers flee when armed resistance is brought to bear. In some cases (my boss's case is one) the close proximity of the bad guys to the victim gives them a good chance at surviving if they pounce. This isn't the same as running across the length of a train while climbing over the bodies of your buddies to get to the guys shooting. I'm not trying to suggest that 1 guy armed with a handgun would survive an attack by 30 determined attackers. You guys keep mixing the two. Most attackers are not determined they are simply opportunists. In the fort hood shooting the bad guy was able to fend off hundreds of young soon to be soldiers confined in a small area. Why? Because no one wants to advance on death. I takes a special motivation or brain defect to do so. |
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April 25, 2011, 05:54 PM | #138 |
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Well, the police have arrested two adults and one juvenile in these attacks. They are also looking for one additional adult and another juvenile.
MARTA is disputing many of the facts previously reported in this case including eye witness reports. As I mentioned in another post there is an upcoming vote to increase taxes to fund an expansion of MARTA into other communities around Atlanta. So, it appears a little damage control is in play. http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/mart...in-924351.html
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April 25, 2011, 07:24 PM | #139 |
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Why is it that a bear would never attack a badger?
A bear CAN kill a badger, if it wants to. But it's going to take some damage in the process. A torn-up paw is not at all a good exchange for a slightly oversize weasel for lunch. Human predators are usually no different. Note the "usually". Drugs or booze can change the rules in a hurry. Anyways. I know I *did* back down four under similar circumstances. Thirty might be another matter but they'll have to wade through the gore of the first six to get to me.
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April 25, 2011, 09:16 PM | #140 | |
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I would suspect that when shots started the noise would be deafening and scary that some of the misguided youths would be trying to vacate the area |
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April 25, 2011, 10:21 PM | #141 | |
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"Advancing on Death"
threegun wrote:
Quote:
And I'm thinking of one particular group whose creed compels them to advance on death; they've often been accused of having a "brain defect" that causes them to act that way; perhaps that's why they're sometimes called [I]"Uncle Sam's Misguided Children"! Last edited by Art Eatman; April 26, 2011 at 07:47 PM. |
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April 26, 2011, 12:38 AM | #142 | |
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April 26, 2011, 01:29 PM | #143 | |
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My brain defect comment was pointed at folks with actual defective brains or folks under the influence of narcotics or alcohol. |
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April 26, 2011, 01:51 PM | #144 | |
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April 26, 2011, 02:52 PM | #145 |
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One thing most folks who do not ride subways seems to miss, your ability to get up and move to another car quickly; your ability to activate an emergency stop which can cause enough discombobulation to allow you to exit stage right quickly; most transit systems typically have a roving cop on board - activating an emergency stop gets his attention and that of the conductor immediately.
Soooooooooooo, there MIGHT be alternative strategies that can be employed besides looking at it as a banzai mission |
April 26, 2011, 03:02 PM | #146 |
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Talked to a police officer (Detroit area) today about gangs. His comments:
"Gang members do not fear handguns, if I have to deal with them, I take the AR, the AR15 they respect." Briefed him on the subway/train incident and asked him what he would have done had he been in plain clothes (off-duty) on the MARTA train. "Don't know, can't say till I've lived thru it." |
April 26, 2011, 03:28 PM | #147 |
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Want to cool it on the chest pounding, death cult, blah, blah - stay with the tactical issue.
Glenn
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April 26, 2011, 04:52 PM | #148 |
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It's the language Threegun "dishing death" no buddy that has ever actually been there would talk like that
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April 26, 2011, 06:42 PM | #149 | |
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BTW Most folks I know who have been there don't tell everybody every three seconds either |
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April 26, 2011, 07:26 PM | #150 |
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I haven't NO ONE EVER TOOK A SHOT AT ME or anything else military anyway, but I have seen the results and dishing out death aint no adjative; it is just a bunch of braggin from someone who has deluded himself into thinking he can handle any situation.
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attack , self defense |
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