Road Rage Today. What would you do? - Page 4

**JohnKSa** · May 1, 2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Make up a good story.

Ok, I'm not going to address the possible issues with legality and just deal with it from a logical standpoint.

Better to stick to the facts. The state of forensics, the profusion of video cameras & cell phone cameras, and other factors make it very likely you'll get caught in a lie. If you are, it will hurt your case tremendously.

You're better off keeping your mouth shut and talking to a lawyer if you think the facts aren't going to help your case. Lying about it is not a good option, especially if you get caught.

BobR · May 1, 2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Even IF the guy punches you, YOU ARE NOT WITHIN THE LAW TO SHOOT HIM!!

Here is Spokane we had a guy shoot and kill a rager in a parking lot after being puched. No charges against shooter. In fact the police won't even release his name to the famly of the rager so thay can sue in civil court.

bob

dipper · May 1, 2008, 06:19 PM

Sorry Bob,
Arrest records are public information---if the family gets a lawyer, he'll have the name in about 2.5 seconds----police can't with hold the info ---in any jurisdiction--for any reason.
There must have been a little more to the story than what your saying--about the rager.
Anyone is free to think what they like, roll the dice, whatever.
I have been to court a time or two--some one punches you in the mouth cause they think you jumped line at the movies or your favorite taco stand and you shoot them, you're in a world of hurt.

Dipper

BobR · May 1, 2008, 06:29 PM

Dipper,

I am not sure what the whole story is, but the police will not release the name. It may have been because of the threat of retaliation.

The incident happened in 2001.

I remember reading about two years ago the family was complaining because they could not find out the name of the guy who shot their loved one who was turning his life around and was a good boy. At the time they blamed the police and the prosecutors for not releasing the info.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...em.asp?ID=2446

bob

Spade Cooley · May 1, 2008, 06:38 PM

The fact is most of us are rank amateurs when it comes to confrontations with Bad Guys. All I'm saying is, survival is the most important thing. You might have to fight dirty in order to survive.

None of us wants to take a life or shoot someone. If you do, be ready to be attacked by law enforcement, the courts and Civil Liberties attornies. It might be time to keep your mouth shut and consult a professional. If they can get a murderer off in our failed court system, anything can happen. They do it all the time. You could end up going up the river for defending yourself.

Note the border patrol officers who shot at drug smugglers. They are in the Pen. If they got their stories together and consulted with an attorney they would have fared better.

Learn to play the game and make it work for you like it works to protect crooks.

TexasSeaRay · May 1, 2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Make up a good story.

Ok, I'm not going to address the possible issues with legality and just deal with it from a logical standpoint.

Better to stick to the facts. The state of forensics, the profusion of video cameras & cell phone cameras, and other factors make it very likely you'll get caught in a lie. If you are, it will hurt your case tremendously.

Dead on, 100% correct.

One of the first things they taught as at Quantico, was when testifying, NEVER LIE. If you do, you'll have to remember how you lied the last time, and then time after that, and the time after that, and so on.

Sooner or later, you'll get busted--and when you do, even the civil affairs division of the US Attorney's Office will not be able to help you. Then, OPR (our version of IAD) comes along, and you're busted AGAIN.

Bad juju, man.

As a civilian, it can get just as bad.

Tell the truth.

Quote:

I have been to court a time or two--some one punches you in the mouth cause they think you jumped line at the movies or your favorite taco stand and you shoot them, you're in a world of hurt.

I've been to court a time or two as well, and in simplified terms as you've put it, your statement will be right more often than not.

But some states also have a "disparity of force" defense. In a nutshell, if a 7'6" 400 pound Mr. Universe Golden Gloves kung fu tae kwon judo expert punches you in the face for basically no reason, you being 2'6" and twenty seven pounds soaking wet put a couple between the Hulk's massive pectorals, not too many prosecutors are going to take you to the grand jury.

And even fewer juries will take longer than ten/fifteen seconds of deliberation to acquit you.

Being a little facetious, but you get the point.

Likewise, here in Texas, if a gang (multiple) assailants attacks you, even with nothing more than fists and feet and you shoot one or all of them, disparity of force becomes a defense.

Of course, with any discussion of this nature, the tendency to veer off little bit by little bit until the discussion barely resembles the original scenario/question gets greater the further along it goes.

Easiest way to not have to ask "the question" is not be around when a "questionable event" occurs.

Jeff

vox rationis · May 1, 2008, 10:00 PM

Yes disparity of force is a very germane issue..
and furthermore one vicious punch to your upper lateral neck could result in a dissected vertebral artery, a vertebro-basilar stroke, and even death..so I wouldn't volunteer to "taking a few" just so I could the "sue the guy".

dipper · May 1, 2008, 10:33 PM

In a post earlier on in this thread, I mentioned the scenario of multiple attackers,
if you are being attack by more than one person, the use of deadly force is much more readily accepted.
Son of Vlad,
If your going to have a case based on " I was afraid the guy was going to hit me and I would have a stroke or some other fatal injury', you better know the medical stats on that because the prosecutor will---I can hear the Q and A now--how many boxers have died of that??
How many ultimate fighters have died like that? Football players??
What made you think that would happen to you?
How many fatalities of that nature do the emergency rooms across the country see??
The jury will hear the numbers and decide if YOUR THOUGHTS were reasonable to a everyday sane non rambo type mother, school teacher, nurse etc. etc. that is sitting on the jury.
Most of the case will be based on what happened not what could have happened or what you thought may happen.
Something else to consider, most cases are taken by a prosecuting attorney based on his ability to WIN!! That's right, not so much for justice but what he/she can win---build their record, get another notch on their belts.
So, if you think because a guy has 3 inches and 40 lbs. on you its " go to gun time", Good luck with that!!!

Dipper

huskylover · May 1, 2008, 10:38 PM

Dmanbass,No I wasn't referring to everyone.Just some members post statements that make me wonder if they have enough sense to be around firearms.Hey, they could be young kids,trolls or anti-gunners posting to start trouble or make gun owners look bad for all we know,but just in case they are legit,I hope they see the error of their ways of thinking.Cause some people on here post some crazy crap sometimes.

I'm not suggesting people run from their homes when confronted by a criminal.I'm not advocating allowing yourself to get attacked by a large group of unarmed thugs that will beat you into a vegetable.

If someone is road raging and flipped you the bird don't respond by flipping him off back,you are armed and have a duty not to esculate a situation.

If someone is making an armed robbery attempt at a conveince store while you are there,no one can tell you what you should do or should have done in response,because we are not there and every situation is different.In these scenerios,even when they are similar, are all going to be different.
You have to use common sense,be calm and restrained not allowing anger and emotion to distort a sound decision when implementing the use of a firearm.

Swampghost · May 1, 2008, 10:55 PM

In FL they have revised some of the laws, we can shoot to defend.

I have a couple of 9" fish filleting knives close at hand. With the windows up I would show the knife with the left hand and have the S&W 469 in the right. If BIG problems occur, I'm shooting straight through the door multiple times.

I frequently drive through parts of Palm Beach, Ft. Laud and Miami that are "less than desireable' sections and think about this often.

Triple8 · May 1, 2008, 11:23 PM

I think I would keep my personnal protection device hidden. What the BG doesn't know could do him in...

Ruthless4christ · May 1, 2008, 11:26 PM

Learn To Drive!!!!!!!

teejhot.40cal · May 1, 2008, 11:32 PM

First escape and evade. Then I would of put my window up and pulled my gun on the other side of the window. Then called 911.

HKFANATIC · May 2, 2008, 12:03 AM

The guy in the Toyota should have just gotten out and whipped his ass. That is how we do it in Texas.

Spade Cooley · May 2, 2008, 06:48 AM

Sometimes it might be the best option to not say anything, maintain your right to remain silent keeping your rights under the 5th amendment. If you take the stand in a trial you are obligated to tell the truth. Like Judge Judy says, it is easier to tell the truth. If it came down to you and the bad guy at trial, would you lie to save yourself?

Do you think the bad boys on trial out there always tell the truth on the stand? Do you think an Attorney might tweek the testimony a little and plant seeds in the mind of his defendant, make up a defense so to speak. If your a$$ is on the line in a questionable shooting, you better lawyer up.

No doubt the best option with road rage is to get away. I have seen people chased down and rammed because they gave someone the bird.

I see a lot of goofy opinions here and believe a lot of you are not aware of life on the street these days. Be careful!

huskylover · May 2, 2008, 09:02 AM

Yes,and the goofy opinions are coming from you Spade.If you need to lie to survive the aftermath of a shooting,then maybe you had no business pulling the trigger or you should keep your mouth shut until consulting an attorney.If your testimony would screw you,your Attorney is not going to put you on the stand.Your lie's would most likely be uncovered with today's technology and investigative techniques.There is a whole prison full of bad guy's that lied,to cover their a**.Ask them how it worked out for them.

Spade Cooley · May 2, 2008, 09:36 AM

Having a plan, using common sense, and thinking before you act has kept me out of trouble all my life. I have survived shoot outs, caught robbery suspects and know more than most about life on the street. I know when it is time to flash the gun and pull the trigger. I know when it is time to keep the gun concealed because the Perp might stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I also know our judicial system is full of flaws. I've been there. Just think, if O J Simpson had told the truth? My advice might not be the best thing for everyone. After you get into a scrape you better tell them everything even if it hurts you.

Why do they take Police officers away from the scene after a shooting? Most Departments isolate the Officer and remove him from the scene in order for him/her to get his thoughts together. They do not want him blurting out something that might hurt him in front of witnesses.

Good luck!

zxcvbob · May 2, 2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

You're better off keeping your mouth shut and talking to a lawyer if you think the facts aren't going to help your case. Lying about it is not a good option, especially if you get caught.

I think you're better off keeping your mouth shut even if you think the facts are on your side.

Lying is not a good idea; hire a lawyer to lie for you, they are better at it. (that's a joke.)

Announcing the the whole world ahead of time that you intend to lie to the cops if you're ever involved in a shooting is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Waiting until you have your story straight is entirely different -- that's another reason to shut up until your attorney gets there, it gives you time to process what just happened and put the *facts* together into a coherent (but true) story. That's obviously what SC meant, isn't it?

TexasSeaRay · May 2, 2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spade Cooley

Why do they take Police officers away from the scene after a shooting? Most Departments isolate the Officer and remove him from the scene in order for him/her to get his thoughts together. They do not want him blurting out something that might hurt him in front of witnesses.

Sorry, Spade, but that is just simply not true.

Jeff

vox rationis · May 2, 2008, 06:40 PM

A few years ago a belligerent parent attacked a referee officiating his son's game and killed him by landing hits in the manner I described. It is a vulnerable area of attack, and I would think that it is against the UFC rules to punch the neck, front, back or side (punches to the larynx for example can cause an acute edematous/injured upper airway, stridor and possible death).

The point though is that a violent attack against your head and neck while you are seated in your car can result in grievous injury and even death. So,
I still maintain that deciding to take punches to your head and neck so as to later retaliate legally is a really bad idea, but hey, it is your face/neck/other body part, so if you want to put your personal safety at risk in order to later sue, that's your prerogative.

I'd rather keep the window up, and focus on escaping. If the guy punches through my window and I can't evade and escape, then I'll defend myself, not let my attacker injure me with potentially maiming or even fatal blows.

huskylover · May 3, 2008, 09:36 AM

The chances of a bad guy landing fatal fist blows is very low.As someone mentioned look at the the sport of boxing,even look at martial arts competitions.Your fears are going to be a very weak argument with little to back them up.I'll tell you the last thing you want to do is shoot somebody for punching you.Your never going to convince the jury that you should have feared for your life.There are just not good enough statistics to back up your concern.Now if you have several attackers or you weigh 130 pounds and
this other guy is Mr.Universe you may be able to relay fear of serious bodily injury or death due to disparity of force.That is still no get out of jail free card though.You more than likely be going to trial for shooting an unarmed man even in disparity of force cases.

bobthewelder · May 3, 2008, 10:23 AM

This thread could go on forever throwing in any one of thousands of scenerios. Bottom line, Toyota guy should have tried to drive his way out of the situation. Way to many details missing to actually say who should have done what. Second, alot of the responses here are out there. First is to try to avoid any situation. If you see a man who walking down the sidewalk towards you, cross the street! If he crosses the street, cross it again! Look around for potential witnesses. Go to the door of a house and ring the doorbell and get off the porch. If he is still coming in your direction draw your weapon and yell at him to stop and drop the knife, once he enters your personal space you have to shoot of get diced up. See how many scenarios there are? But in my example I made it perfectly clear to anyone around that I was trying to avoid the situation at all costs. In any situation (usually the timeline isn't going to be as drawn out as mine) make it perfectly clear that you don't want any trouble, and that any bystanders here this. You can only draw your weapon if you feel your life or the life of someone else is in immediate danger. I don't have the energy or ambition to fight, so if I were approached by Big Bubba and he said he was going to kick my ass, I would back up and tell him I didn't want to fight as loud as I could, if he is still coming, run away. If you can't and he enters my personal space I would draw which would likely stop the fight. Now if Big Bubba were to say "I'm gooing to kill you", I would draw at that point. If you don't your risking your own weapon being used on you once Big Bubba pounds you to the ground. Simple answer, run if you can. If Big Bubba or Michael Jackson and Prince and all their buddies (multiple adversaries) are threatening you, I would draw as the odds of surviving multiple attackers is less that it is with just one. And the chances that the Jackson Gang has at least one weapon is more than probable. Use you car alarm to draw attention if your near your car, mine has a panick button on the back. Remember, You always have to look like the victim and must always try to talk your way out in case there are witnesses, and there maybe some that you don't notice. Also remember that if you shoot someone, your likely going to face a civil suit even if you beat the criminal suit and are cleared of the charges. Their family, or even them if they survive are going to sue you for shooting their scumbag who tried to kill you.

dipper · May 3, 2008, 10:29 AM

True words Bob--+1 on that!!

Dipper

cozidaddy · May 3, 2008, 10:43 AM

In FL they have revised some of the laws, we can shoot to defend.

I have a couple of 9" fish filleting knives close at hand. With the windows up I would show the knife with the left hand and have the S&W 469 in the right. If BIG problems occur, I'm shooting straight through the door multiple times.

I frequently drive through parts of Palm Beach, Ft. Laud and Miami that are "less than desireable' sections and think about this often.

http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

This explains the extention of the Castle Doctrine to your vehicle

vox rationis · May 3, 2008, 11:24 AM

I wasn't making comments about shoot or no shoot. That is for everyone to decide as an individual based on whether or not you feel like your life is in danger and there is no other avenue but to defend yourself with deadly force.

I was just trying to bring to light the fact that taking vicious punches to certain parts of one's anatomy can be potentially maiming and life threatening and should absolutely not be taken lightly, or as part as one's strategy. You should defend against such hits period.

Note, since you guys have been making this assumption erroneously, "defend" does not automatically equate to "shoot", it can mean hand to hand defense, pepper spray, whatever.

I just think it is a bad idea to take those hits as part of one's strategy, to later sue, or something similar.

May 1, 2008, 10:00 PM	#82
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	"it is just getting punched" Yes disparity of force is a very germane issue.. and furthermore one vicious punch to your upper lateral neck could result in a dissected vertebral artery, a vertebro-basilar stroke, and even death..so I wouldn't volunteer to "taking a few" just so I could the "sue the guy".

May 1, 2008, 11:26 PM	#87
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	um........ Learn To Drive!!!!!!!

May 2, 2008, 06:40 PM	#95
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	re: dipper A few years ago a belligerent parent attacked a referee officiating his son's game and killed him by landing hits in the manner I described. It is a vulnerable area of attack, and I would think that it is against the UFC rules to punch the neck, front, back or side (punches to the larynx for example can cause an acute edematous/injured upper airway, stridor and possible death). The point though is that a violent attack against your head and neck while you are seated in your car can result in grievous injury and even death. So, I still maintain that deciding to take punches to your head and neck so as to later retaliate legally is a really bad idea, but hey, it is your face/neck/other body part, so if you want to put your personal safety at risk in order to later sue, that's your prerogative. I'd rather keep the window up, and focus on escaping. If the guy punches through my window and I can't evade and escape, then I'll defend myself, not let my attacker injure me with potentially maiming or even fatal blows.

May 3, 2008, 10:23 AM	#97
bobthewelder Member Join Date: April 26, 2008 Posts: 51	This thread could go on forever throwing in any one of thousands of scenerios. Bottom line, Toyota guy should have tried to drive his way out of the situation. Way to many details missing to actually say who should have done what. Second, alot of the responses here are out there. First is to try to avoid any situation. If you see a man who walking down the sidewalk towards you, cross the street! If he crosses the street, cross it again! Look around for potential witnesses. Go to the door of a house and ring the doorbell and get off the porch. If he is still coming in your direction draw your weapon and yell at him to stop and drop the knife, once he enters your personal space you have to shoot of get diced up. See how many scenarios there are? But in my example I made it perfectly clear to anyone around that I was trying to avoid the situation at all costs. In any situation (usually the timeline isn't going to be as drawn out as mine) make it perfectly clear that you don't want any trouble, and that any bystanders here this. You can only draw your weapon if you feel your life or the life of someone else is in immediate danger. I don't have the energy or ambition to fight, so if I were approached by Big Bubba and he said he was going to kick my ass, I would back up and tell him I didn't want to fight as loud as I could, if he is still coming, run away. If you can't and he enters my personal space I would draw which would likely stop the fight. Now if Big Bubba were to say "I'm gooing to kill you", I would draw at that point. If you don't your risking your own weapon being used on you once Big Bubba pounds you to the ground. Simple answer, run if you can. If Big Bubba or Michael Jackson and Prince and all their buddies (multiple adversaries) are threatening you, I would draw as the odds of surviving multiple attackers is less that it is with just one. And the chances that the Jackson Gang has at least one weapon is more than probable. Use you car alarm to draw attention if your near your car, mine has a panick button on the back. Remember, You always have to look like the victim and must always try to talk your way out in case there are witnesses, and there maybe some that you don't notice. Also remember that if you shoot someone, your likely going to face a civil suit even if you beat the criminal suit and are cleared of the charges. Their family, or even them if they survive are going to sue you for shooting their scumbag who tried to kill you. Last edited by bobthewelder; May 3, 2008 at 06:08 PM.

May 1, 2008, 06:19 PM	#78
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	Sorry Bob, Arrest records are public information---if the family gets a lawyer, he'll have the name in about 2.5 seconds----police can't with hold the info ---in any jurisdiction--for any reason. There must have been a little more to the story than what your saying--about the rager. Anyone is free to think what they like, roll the dice, whatever. I have been to court a time or two--some one punches you in the mouth cause they think you jumped line at the movies or your favorite taco stand and you shoot them, you're in a world of hurt. Dipper

May 1, 2008, 06:29 PM	#79
BobR Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2000 Location: The Dry Side of WA Posts: 561	Dipper, I am not sure what the whole story is, but the police will not release the name. It may have been because of the threat of retaliation. The incident happened in 2001. I remember reading about two years ago the family was complaining because they could not find out the name of the guy who shot their loved one who was turning his life around and was a good boy. At the time they blamed the police and the prosecutors for not releasing the info. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...em.asp?ID=2446 bob

May 1, 2008, 06:38 PM	#80
Spade Cooley Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 296	The fact is most of us are rank amateurs when it comes to confrontations with Bad Guys. All I'm saying is, survival is the most important thing. You might have to fight dirty in order to survive. None of us wants to take a life or shoot someone. If you do, be ready to be attacked by law enforcement, the courts and Civil Liberties attornies. It might be time to keep your mouth shut and consult a professional. If they can get a murderer off in our failed court system, anything can happen. They do it all the time. You could end up going up the river for defending yourself. Note the border patrol officers who shot at drug smugglers. They are in the Pen. If they got their stories together and consulted with an attorney they would have fared better. Learn to play the game and make it work for you like it works to protect crooks.

May 1, 2008, 10:33 PM	#83
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	In a post earlier on in this thread, I mentioned the scenario of multiple attackers, if you are being attack by more than one person, the use of deadly force is much more readily accepted. Son of Vlad, If your going to have a case based on " I was afraid the guy was going to hit me and I would have a stroke or some other fatal injury', you better know the medical stats on that because the prosecutor will---I can hear the Q and A now--how many boxers have died of that?? How many ultimate fighters have died like that? Football players?? What made you think that would happen to you? How many fatalities of that nature do the emergency rooms across the country see?? The jury will hear the numbers and decide if YOUR THOUGHTS were reasonable to a everyday sane non rambo type mother, school teacher, nurse etc. etc. that is sitting on the jury. Most of the case will be based on what happened not what could have happened or what you thought may happen. Something else to consider, most cases are taken by a prosecuting attorney based on his ability to WIN!! That's right, not so much for justice but what he/she can win---build their record, get another notch on their belts. So, if you think because a guy has 3 inches and 40 lbs. on you its " go to gun time", Good luck with that!!! Dipper

May 1, 2008, 10:38 PM	#84
huskylover Member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 21	Dmanbass,No I wasn't referring to everyone.Just some members post statements that make me wonder if they have enough sense to be around firearms.Hey, they could be young kids,trolls or anti-gunners posting to start trouble or make gun owners look bad for all we know,but just in case they are legit,I hope they see the error of their ways of thinking.Cause some people on here post some crazy crap sometimes. I'm not suggesting people run from their homes when confronted by a criminal.I'm not advocating allowing yourself to get attacked by a large group of unarmed thugs that will beat you into a vegetable. If someone is road raging and flipped you the bird don't respond by flipping him off back,you are armed and have a duty not to esculate a situation. If someone is making an armed robbery attempt at a conveince store while you are there,no one can tell you what you should do or should have done in response,because we are not there and every situation is different.In these scenerios,even when they are similar, are all going to be different. You have to use common sense,be calm and restrained not allowing anger and emotion to distort a sound decision when implementing the use of a firearm.

May 1, 2008, 10:55 PM	#85
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	In FL they have revised some of the laws, we can shoot to defend. I have a couple of 9" fish filleting knives close at hand. With the windows up I would show the knife with the left hand and have the S&W 469 in the right. If BIG problems occur, I'm shooting straight through the door multiple times. I frequently drive through parts of Palm Beach, Ft. Laud and Miami that are "less than desireable' sections and think about this often.

May 1, 2008, 11:23 PM	#86
Triple8 Member Join Date: May 1, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 35	I think I would keep my personnal protection device hidden. What the BG doesn't know could do him in...

May 1, 2008, 11:32 PM	#88
teejhot.40cal Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 394	First escape and evade. Then I would of put my window up and pulled my gun on the other side of the window. Then called 911.

May 2, 2008, 12:03 AM	#89
HKFANATIC Junior Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2	The guy in the Toyota should have just gotten out and whipped his ass. That is how we do it in Texas.

May 2, 2008, 06:48 AM	#90
Spade Cooley Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 296	Sometimes it might be the best option to not say anything, maintain your right to remain silent keeping your rights under the 5th amendment. If you take the stand in a trial you are obligated to tell the truth. Like Judge Judy says, it is easier to tell the truth. If it came down to you and the bad guy at trial, would you lie to save yourself? Do you think the bad boys on trial out there always tell the truth on the stand? Do you think an Attorney might tweek the testimony a little and plant seeds in the mind of his defendant, make up a defense so to speak. If your a$$ is on the line in a questionable shooting, you better lawyer up. No doubt the best option with road rage is to get away. I have seen people chased down and rammed because they gave someone the bird. I see a lot of goofy opinions here and believe a lot of you are not aware of life on the street these days. Be careful!

May 2, 2008, 09:02 AM	#91
huskylover Member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 21	Yes,and the goofy opinions are coming from you Spade.If you need to lie to survive the aftermath of a shooting,then maybe you had no business pulling the trigger or you should keep your mouth shut until consulting an attorney.If your testimony would screw you,your Attorney is not going to put you on the stand.Your lie's would most likely be uncovered with today's technology and investigative techniques.There is a whole prison full of bad guy's that lied,to cover their a**.Ask them how it worked out for them.

May 2, 2008, 09:36 AM	#92
Spade Cooley Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 296	Having a plan, using common sense, and thinking before you act has kept me out of trouble all my life. I have survived shoot outs, caught robbery suspects and know more than most about life on the street. I know when it is time to flash the gun and pull the trigger. I know when it is time to keep the gun concealed because the Perp might stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I also know our judicial system is full of flaws. I've been there. Just think, if O J Simpson had told the truth? My advice might not be the best thing for everyone. After you get into a scrape you better tell them everything even if it hurts you. Why do they take Police officers away from the scene after a shooting? Most Departments isolate the Officer and remove him from the scene in order for him/her to get his thoughts together. They do not want him blurting out something that might hurt him in front of witnesses. Good luck!

May 3, 2008, 09:36 AM	#96
huskylover Member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 21	The chances of a bad guy landing fatal fist blows is very low.As someone mentioned look at the the sport of boxing,even look at martial arts competitions.Your fears are going to be a very weak argument with little to back them up.I'll tell you the last thing you want to do is shoot somebody for punching you.Your never going to convince the jury that you should have feared for your life.There are just not good enough statistics to back up your concern.Now if you have several attackers or you weigh 130 pounds and this other guy is Mr.Universe you may be able to relay fear of serious bodily injury or death due to disparity of force.That is still no get out of jail free card though.You more than likely be going to trial for shooting an unarmed man even in disparity of force cases.

May 3, 2008, 10:29 AM	#98
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	True words Bob--+1 on that!! Dipper

May 3, 2008, 10:43 AM	#99
cozidaddy Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2008 Location: psl , fl Posts: 3	In FL they have revised some of the laws, we can shoot to defend. I have a couple of 9" fish filleting knives close at hand. With the windows up I would show the knife with the left hand and have the S&W 469 in the right. If BIG problems occur, I'm shooting straight through the door multiple times. I frequently drive through parts of Palm Beach, Ft. Laud and Miami that are "less than desireable' sections and think about this often. http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm This explains the extention of the Castle Doctrine to your vehicle

May 3, 2008, 11:24 AM	#100
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	I wasn't making comments about shoot or no shoot. That is for everyone to decide as an individual based on whether or not you feel like your life is in danger and there is no other avenue but to defend yourself with deadly force. I was just trying to bring to light the fact that taking vicious punches to certain parts of one's anatomy can be potentially maiming and life threatening and should absolutely not be taken lightly, or as part as one's strategy. You should defend against such hits period. Note, since you guys have been making this assumption erroneously, "defend" does not automatically equate to "shoot", it can mean hand to hand defense, pepper spray, whatever. I just think it is a bad idea to take those hits as part of one's strategy, to later sue, or something similar.