Triple Tap (instead of double tap) - Anyone train this way instead?

[Ticman]

I train to do the slide lock tap.

[Brit]

If your range allows multiple target placement, try this.

Three targets, one in front of you directly, 5 yds, left at 10 yds, right at 4 yds, two yds spread.

Draw and fire two on each, center, left, then right. Do that again, mark the hits with marker.

Same exercise, but one shot on each, again done twice. Push for speed, normally much better hits with the double taps, only a fraction more time for 6 shots compared to three! I think our time span was .6 of a second more for 6 shots, on average. The reason, movement between targets is the big time add on, not the second trigger press.

Keep Safe.

[Wagonman]

I carry a Glock 18 with a 33 round magazine. I train to just unload the entire magazine into the target.

How do you CCW this?

[GeauxTide]

Depress the trigger until the threat is neutralized.

[flattop44sc]

I never train for a certain amount of responses. Try to vary but the mozambique still warms my heart. Hip? shooting is a good theory till he uses his good hands to shoot you back from the ground. Hard to beat hardball to the coconut and even better if it's under a second.

[CARGUY2244]

How many bogies? If I'm certain only one, the optimal reponse is a zipper. Start at lower torso, and allow the muzzle rise to take you to the top floor. If your fast enough, which comes with training, you'll be at 6 or 7 shots by the time you take out the head, and of course have created a vertical perforation along the way. Problem is, like bad news, bogies usually come in bunches, sometimes unseen, making ammo conservation and multiple target acquisition imperative. Treating every encounter as anything but optimal, put the first shot on the bridge of the nose. Takes a lot of training, markmenship, drawing, and psychological, but at close range, which is almost always where you'll find yourself in this situation, anyone can do it. To the head, one shot, one kill. Then on to the next target.

[tpareloader]

Don't stop until the threat is gone...

If one does it, cool, more ammo for me.

If it takes two reloads, 45 rounds, and acting like a lumberjack with a steel pipe on the threat that's what I'll do.

[Glenn Dee]

Hello Fella's ( non generic)

Interesting thread... I'd like to add my own 2 cents if yall dont mind. I'm one of those old timers who was trained to shoot with revolvers. We did have one drill where we would fire two rounds, and holster. This drill was designed more to practice drawing and firing... not firing and holstering.

We also trained to fire twice at center mass, then evaluate the situation. Shoot drills were always married to tactics. So as much as we trained in hitting the target... We trained (at the same time) to be as difficult a target as possible. Cover, and concielment, and body position.


Firing center mass twice did two things as I was taught. If the first shot was a snap-shot, by time you made the second your front sight should be on target. We also wanted to conserve ammo. None of this changed once we transitioned to 15 rnd 9MM pistols.


As civilians, the police and the legally armed parobably should stay away from military methods. IMHO. Considering the so called Mozambique?.. I'd say that a D/A , and 12 citizens would interpet that as an exicution round. Or as the SAS calls it... a security round.


Those proponents of emptying your firearm at the threat?... OK you empty your pistol, and the guy is down and shedding copious amounts of blood. Not moving attall. Now what about his friends... the ones who werent threatening you, or the ones you didnt see.


One other point... Consider you fired 15 rounds at a really bad guy who had terrible intentions. In the end he's down, for good. He never got off a shot at you, or maybe none of his rounds had your name on it. What happened to your 15 rounds did you hit him 15 times?.. did you miss two or three? What stopped them?.. they most certainly have your name on them. Did the stop in a bridge abutment?, or a little girl, or someones wife? It's something to consider when blasting away.

[FM12]

You can shoot 'em tiil they're down, but you cant then shoot 'em til they're dead.

[The Canuck]

That's where the Enhanced Marksmanship Program comes into play!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The Mozambique is taught as a failure to stop drill as compared to a finishing shot. If done in a quick string as compared to a deliberate finishing shot - it would be quite defensible.

I wouldn't advise folks not to take that shot and continue to pour lead ineffectively into someone on the basis of the hypothetical jury. The jury may be effected by gore but you win if you present the most reasonable story of your actions.

[JohnH1963]

If you are firing at someone, then they probably have given you reason to do so. They have an unholstered weapon in which they are about to fire on you or maybe they are in your home charging at you. The only reasonable response in a scenario where you feel your life is threatened is the Powell doctrine. Use overwhelming force to neutralize the threat.

In such life threatening scenarios, I doubt there will be enough time to evaluate if the target is neutralized. The time frame for such scenarios I can imagine to be less then 5 seconds and then there are other factors that cloud the mind such as stress. I hardly believe anyone is just going to fire 2 shots, pause to see if the target has been neutralized and then fire another 2.

The more likely scenario is the shooter is going to pour fire down upon the target until it is obviously down on the floor. The time it takes to fire 5-10 rounds is probably a few seconds. In that time, the target wont have a chance to fall.

I bet most people will pull the trigger as fast as they can pouring as much lead onto the target as possible. The target will eventually fall to the floor, but not after at least half the magazine has been expended. Some people will probably keep shooting while the target is in mid-fall.

By the time the target hits the floor, it will have at least 5-7 holes with blood pouring out everywhere. If the target does not die from a hit to a major area, it will probably die from a loss of blood.

[Glenn Dee]

I dont think it's a good idea for civilians to practice swat, or military tactics for self defense situations. It's fun when gaming... but difficult to explain in a real world situation. Servicemen (shooters), and police (swat) train hard, long and often to become as good as they are. One thing to keep in mind is this. Military and police tactics are for the most part small unit operations. Usually in squad strength... More likely in a self defense situation a civilian will be alone, or with a loved one, be lighter armed, and in a situation not of his/her choosing. Different tactics, and a different mindset needed to survive. Different skill set needed to survive. Different training regimen.

[DVC45ACP]

I'm generally with Musketeer and others that prefer something like the Mozambique, rather than firing more than two rounds into the torso. I can see arguments for "the more the merrier" in some cases but I think that generally after two solid hits you should be thinking about evaluating, head or other necessary shots, or other potential threats.

[ezenbrowntown]

I stop when they are stopped. I train firing the entire magazine. Sometimes I group them COM, sometimes I work my way up. I worry much less about super accurate shots, and more about being able to land hits while on the move. I can't imagine someone coming at me, and me just standing still. I practice moving all different directions at rapid speed. I practice at closer ranges on unholstering my weapon and landing shots without sighting in the target (3 to 7 feet).

I understand training and wanting to be prepared, but let's not assume we can train to a level of untouchable. If someone really wants to get you, you'll get got. Flip your training in reverse and imagine yourself as the bad guy. Could you get the drop on somebody? If so, somebody else with the tactical advantage of being on the offensive could get you too. I train to give myself a better chance, but I"m not under the delusion that I can prepare myself to complete safety. I can just increase my odds. That's why most of my training is done in close ranges.
Headshots are nice in theory, but I'd imagine tough to perform under stress on a moving target. To put it in a better perspective: Imagine being in a batting cage, without the cage. Set the all the other cages machines to aim in your direction, on their highest speed, and shooting balls at varied times rapidly. Then, try to hit a bobbing, moving cantaloupe while on the run to not get hit by a baseball. That would be difficult, and wouldn't even do a self defense shooting justice in comparison of stress.

I think that applies to the body armor situation too. If it ever happened, I'd do my best to survive. But if a guy, shielded in body armor with an AK chooses to attack me, an unknowing civilian with a 9mm, odds are he's going to win. A gun doesn't give me a magic cure all, it just gives me another tool to increase my chances of survival.

[Glenn Dee]

+1 ezen...Very well put. Anchored in reality.

[tuletime]

Little off the topic but today in Cincinnati the police released a video of a shootout with bad guy and police. There was no double tap or triple tap. Off duty officer who probably saved life of fellow officer fired 13 times at subject in cab of truck. No officers hit and bad guy dead on scene. Police chief stated that all five officers in pursuit and shootout deserves medals for using restraint in attempts to apprehend subject before shooting. So I guess what I am saying is sometimes it boils down to not just "double tap" or "triple tap", but WHATEVER IT TAKES!

[Gaxicus]

Practicing three shots at a time makes sense..... for several reasons.

People miss, stressed people miss more, and bad guys usually dont stop with one shot. Thats not it though, read on.

If you are in court because one of those rounds hit the attacker in the head you should be fine if its a clean shoot. If you say you triple tapped him you could be in for a lawsuit. Im not saying you couldnt win, it just leaves more legal room for both criminal and civil layers representing the attacker to use against you.

Whether you had the control to make the third shot a head shot or not, you train to fire three times in a row. Thats what I would stick to.

To clarify something someone else mentioned.

If I shoot 3 times and the attacker still represents any kind of threat in the 1/2 second I may allow to evaluate, I will shoot three more times, not one to the head, just three more shots.

"I practice to shoot three, officer, so thats what I did. If the final three were all in his head, it must have been because I was looking at the attackers enraged face when he was still coming at me." "I was scared and my training took over."

You really want to avoid looking like you executed your attacker.

From a totally practical standpoint. If you practice twice I am not sure you are fully through the recoil compensation cycle to continue if neccesary with the same or other targets. 3 gets you through the recoil compensation cycle and you are in rapid fire mode. If you can train to shoot three... five, or 31(?!) shouldnt be hard to reach from there.

In other words, you want to achieve the most effective state as a shooter which is controlled rapid fire. I think it takes at least three to get there. Once you are there, you can stop and eveluate or switch to other attackers, but once you are in controlled rapid fire mode you are a very nasty opponent. 2 doesnt quite get the shooter to that mode in my view.

Try this:

Practice shooting twice through the capacity of your gun. Reload, then fire the weapon until empty.
Practice shooting three times through the capacity of the gun. Reload, then fire the weapon until empty.

I think you will find that your second clip/mag, whatever after practicing 3 goes a lot faster and with tighter groups than it did going 2x. It does for me.

This is the real power of a 9mm in my view. Train to 3 and you basically have a 500 rpm sub-machine gun in your hands. I totally dismissed the 9mm until I learned to train this way. I still love my 15 round FN p-45 though. Im pretty good but I cant achieve the rate of controlled rapid fire with it that I can with my XD-9. That gun is absolutely vicious when used this way.

Just my .2 (or .3 in this case).

[Ryder]

Whatever it takes for me too though I do make it a habit to avoid slide lock. Failure to hold 2 or 3 rounds in reserve with which to scan for additional threats is an extremely bad idea.