Grinding the bottom of die or top of shell holder - Page 3

briandg · February 13, 2016, 06:44 PM

That information puts a whole new vortex on the situation. The probability that this rifle w a s made out of saami specs, as your die was, is high. It should come as no surprise that a chamber might exceed a die's tolerance to the point that it is a problem.

The question that comes up over and over is what part of the fit is defective. Sending some fired brass and a chamber cast to rcbs may help you get a good set of dies.

F. Guffey · February 17, 2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

The OP wanted to know if he could grind the bottom of a die. He did not ask for a bunch of opinions about his chamber. Yes, you can grind off the bottom of a die to change the size of your brass.

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Gunplummer: I'm sure that response is comforting to a man with a non-spec chamber.

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Thanks for all the responses. Tight chamber is definitely a probability. I will look into that angle. Unfortunately it requires so doing. I am hand loading 7.62x45 Czech, an obsolete cartridge. I can't just pick a box up at a local store.

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefReloading762x45mm

Someone should ask the OP how his rifle got the chamber. I do not do well with guessing games. He claims he can not pock up a box of cases at a local store; it is possible to purchases cases and dies to form cases, then there is the hack saw, the man tool for trimming. I sent the wife to a hardware store for hack saws blades so she took the hack saw with her. She called me a short time later to tell me about the nice man at the hardware store; he wanted to trade her new hack saw with blade for her old, worn 100+ plus year old hack saw. The wife explained to the to him she left the house with the hack saw and she had to return to the house with it; unless he wanted to trade the saw for a Dewalt cut off saw, complete with blades. It was about that time the sales person ask her if her husband was a collector; she responded with no; “my husband is a musician, I am the collector”.

6.5x54 Carcanno cases can be formed to 7.62x45R, 220 Swift cases can be used if the rim is turned down and the extractor groove is cut deeper. Then there is the companion tool to the press; the feeler gage. It is possible in some areas the feeler gage is only available to advanced reloaders. In other areas the feeler gage is not something a reloader would be caught with on Main Street. With the feeler gage there is no such thing as a case that will not fit a short chamber.

The nice thing about forming cases is the need for understanding the incline plain.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=incline...7e0660a5daf934

F. Guffey

**Unclenick** · February 17, 2016, 02:18 PM

Brian,

There is no SAAMI spec for this cartridge. The CIP drawing is as close as we'll get. This means they expect you to use the old-fashioned method of trying to measure to the shoulder and case body or the shoulder and neck intersections (L1 and L2 on the drawing). The chamber dimensions are minimums, so if you fire and neck size a case several times until it has no more play in the chamber, you can measure if it exceeds those numbers. Another approach is to use the primer insertion method with a fired case that has been decapped without resizing. Not the most precise approach, but serviceable. You can also calculate the equivalent diameter for a SAAMI style shoulder datum and measure that. It looks like a 0.375" datum would work and in the chamber it would be 1.4687" forward of the breech end of a minimum chamber (of the primer, if you use that method).

Note that the case must be fired to fit the chamber because the Europeans, not having a common datum for the shoulder of the case and chamber, as SAAMI does, don't always keep the angles of the case and chamber shoulders exactly the same. In the 7.62×45 the chamber shoulder has a 50.2294° included angle and the case has a 49.7275° included angle, forcing contact to be made first near the neck. I suppose the thinking is that it would be harder to chamber if the case shoulder body were sized too long, but I don't see how that would happen.

If you make your own datum finder with a reamed 0.375" hole, you can measure this all easily. If you use a caliper case comparator, you'll get a low reading due to the small radius at the mouth of the hole in its adapter. So you could calibrate for that by zeroing the comparator on caliper anvil and then measuring a good quality 30-06 GO gauge with it. The result will be a little short, but if you multiply it by 1.41 (the ratio of the sines of the shoulder half angles) that's the error you can expect measuring your cartridge's headspace with that same adapter. This assumes a uniform radius on the adapter, which you probably won't have exactly, but the method is going to get you within a thousandth or so, just the same.

That head is the size of a 220 Russian, but the 220 Russian is too short (39 mm) to get a case out of.

F. Guffey · February 17, 2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

It should come as no surprise that a chamber might exceed a die's tolerance to the point that it is a problem.

And then, again, a case forming reolader should have the necessary skills to size cases for short chambers. I size cases for short chambers; I can size a case that is minimum length/full length sized. I can size a case that is go-gage length. I can size a case to any length between minimum length/full lengths sized to go-gage length. And then there is going beyond go-gage length. I can size a case to any length from go-gage length to infinity.

The infinity length sized case does warrant a caution. I do not want my bullets flying down the barrel with out guidance/support so I will say; I can size a case from .017” shorter than a go-gage length chamber to a practical .002” longer than a field reject length chamber with a common, ordinary everyday RCBS shell holder and a full length sizing die.

There was this shooter that walked into a smith’s shop in N. Texas with a rifle that had the bolt locked up. Long story; he purchased a box of 308 W ammo for a rifle with a 25x06 chamber. I will add the rifle did not belong to him.

F. Guffey

tangolima · February 17, 2016, 10:26 PM

Thanks gentlemen for your inputs. Food for the thought indeed.

I am forming the brass from 6.5 carcano. It is a obsolete milsurp round. I am afraid saami has little bearings. I mostly ignore all that and focus on making ammunition to fit one rifle.

A tight, rather than short, chamber is a probability. Couldn't get a factory cartridge to try, so went the other route. I chucked one of my formed brass, upon which the bolt could barely close, to my drill. Span and sanded down its body diameter so that it actually wriggled in the chamber. No change to the bolt closing. Short chamber it is. Or the die is too long.

I couldn't screw down the die any further, as the shell holder started contacting the bottom of the die. I don't like the feeler gauge business myself, so I looked somewhere else before grinding. The formed brass has thick metal under its shoulder. Perhaps it sprang back. I annealed the area thoroughly before forming, and I formed the brass several times till resistance had noticeably reduced. It helped. It chambered and I still had a hair line between the die bottom and shell holder top. I don't need to grind anything after all.

I even shot some of the rounds I made. It was fun.

Thanks again for your help.

-TL

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 10:44 AM

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I don't like the feeler gauge business myself,

The case whips the press or the press whips the case. I do not deny my self anything and the luxury of not liking something or somebody is a luxury I can not afford. That brings us to the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. The gap should not be there. In the perfect world there would not be a gap; but when there is a gap I measure the gap with a feeler gage to measure the gap. The gap is caused by the failure of the case being shoved in to the die. In the perfect world when sizing cases for the perfect go-gage length chamber I can adjust the die off the shell holder .004” when sizing 30/06 cases that fit the chamber with no case travel.

And then; there is adjusting the die down to beyond contact with the shell holder. When I make that type of adjustment I get cases that are minimum length/full length sized cases.

Back to the gap; if I had a gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die with the proverbial additions ¼ turn after contact (about .0178”) I would shove a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and bottom of the case head to increases the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

Placing a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and bottom of the case head increases the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. Why would someone want to do that? This method and or technique is only for those that have the ability to determine the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. This method is only for those that have the discipline to measure before and again after.

I do not know what dies you are using, I do not know what press you are using, I do not know what lube you are using. I do not have a King Kong press. For the heavy work I have arbor presses that are not designed for reloading but I have adapter kits; problem, getting the cases out of the dies or barrel after sizing.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 10:57 AM

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I am afraid SAAMI has little bearings.

My opinion; even of you had specifications it would still be necessary to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the case head. If you are not cutting the chamber SAAMI specifications only tell you what the chamber should be or what it could be.

I use the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head to off set the length of the chamber. And then; there is this other part we will never get around to talking about, my computer could run out of ink before there is an opportunity.

F. Guffey

jmorris · February 18, 2016, 11:29 AM

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My opinion; even of you had specifications it would still be necessary to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the case head. If you are not cutting the chamber SAAMI specifications only tell you what the chamber should be or what it could be.

The die I modified was for a round that has no SAAMI spec. The chamber of the rifle "is what it is" so it was useless for me to worry about measuring the length of the shoulder to case head, I just knew the die as it was didn't make that distance short enough for the case to chamber and after I faced a few thousands off, it would.

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 12:03 PM

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The die I modified was for a round that has no SAAMI spec.

I can only guess you assumed I knew you modified a die. I have never found it necessary out side of case forming. I doubt we will ever get around to discussing that, I am afraid the weak could pass out and the strong would get dizzy.

F. Guffey

jmorris · February 18, 2016, 12:13 PM

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I can only guess you assumed I knew you modified a die. I have never found it necessary out side of case forming.

It was the same one I was talking about in post #25, one minute after your post #24 and 32 min before your next one #27.

It remains the only die I have had to modify for it to work as originally intended. Or I never needed to until I needed to.

tangolima · February 18, 2016, 02:01 PM

I don't try to measure the distance between the shoulder and the breech face in terms of inches and thousandths of. It is meaningless to me.

I screw down the die progressively till the brass chambers without resistance, and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

I never worry about saami specs or headspace gauges, because I am not cutting a chamber for a customer, nor producing ammunitions for public consumption. I'm just making rounds for this particular rifle. It is rather simple really. Feeler gauge or not, it works the same. It don't like using feeler gauge as shim as it is a measurement tool, not for taking load.

-TL

jmorris · February 18, 2016, 02:34 PM

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I screw down the die progressively till the brass chambers without resistance, and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

That is pretty much what the OP and I are talking about. Ours happened to not have enough "down" and bottomed out before "chambers without resistance".

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 03:04 PM

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and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference.

A mm? that would be about .040"; with 14 threads per inch that would be over half a turn. Half a turn would be .0356". When using a feeler gage I mananage at least 15 different length cases if I decided to separate the cases length by .002" each.

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It don't like using feeler gauge as shim as it is a measurement tool, not for taking load.

Who is using a feeler gage under a load. I place the load between the threads and lock nut. I secure the die to the press with the lock nut after adjusting the die. Again, I have a set of feeler gages that looked like I used them on a Tasmanian Devil; no I did not use the gages on a Tasmanian Devil, that would be cruel. I was testing an engine for compression.

I know, most remove a spark plug then place the compression gage in the spark plug and then have someone to crank the engine. Well, this particular engine did not have spark plugs and it had a 700 ++ cubic inch engine and then it had to be done in a hurry. So I did it while it was running.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 03:16 PM

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happened to not have enough "down" and bottomed out before

That is what I am talking about, when the die will not get closer to the deck of the shell holder raise the deck; HOW? The deck can be raised with a feeler gage when placed on the deck and case head.

I understand; precision is not part of some reloaders vocabulary, I am not talking to those reloaders. There is a remote chance there are reloaders that read these threads and want to know how much to grind off the bottom of a die and or shell holder. I am the only one that has the tool for precession grinding the bottom of a die or top of the shell holder. I exaggerated the truth; I have three of them. I do not use the machines for that purpose but 'JIC'; as in just in case.

F. Guffey

briandg · February 18, 2016, 03:23 PM

I'd like to ask, would it be best to remove and shorten the barrel so it can be rechambered to the best "standard" ammo configuration, or would it be better to have a die custom made to use and form brass to work with his chamber dimensions? I wonder if rechambering would be easier, as a good Smith could do it on-site.

tangolima · February 18, 2016, 03:36 PM

You need to have the reamer to ream the chamber longer. I mostly shoot worn out milsurp rifles. Short chambers are rather rare.

-TL

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

I'd like to ask, would it be best to remove and shorten the barrel so it can be rechambered to the best "standard" ammo configuration, or would it be better to have a die custom made to use and form brass to work with his chamber dimensions? I wonder if rechambering would be easier, as a good Smith could do it on-site.

Briandg, Yes the barrel can be set back, but as you can see as you read through this thread every time I can 'it can be done' there are 4 members that clamed 'it' can not be done. Then there are those responses that claim it is not important.

I have a rifle that is not the exception nor is it rare. I have an Eddyston M1917 with a long chamber. Somewhere along the 100 year lifetime of the rifle the chamber had .011" added to the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. The rifle is not the exception, it is common. Does that lock me up? NO. Am I worried about head space? NO. Because no one will ask why I will explain; when I fire 30/06 factory ammo in that rifle the cases do not stretch between the case head and case body. No one on this forum understands that but Uncle Nick. I can prove the case does not stretch between the case head and case body even that is a hard sell.

What can I do to fix it? I have some heavy barrels I could cut and chamber, I could move the barrel back .100" and then chamber it to a 308 Norma Mag, 300 Win Mag. or I could apply the leaver policy, I can choose to leaver the way I founder.

The leaver policy allows me to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. After determining the length of the chamber I raise the die off of the shell holder .016" then form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases with .016" added to the length of the case between the shoulder of the case to the case head. For those that have there pencils out and writing this stuff down after forming the 280 Remington case to 30/06 I have the magic .002" clearance everyone claims they get.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 03:56 PM

And then there was that time I had an FN with a long? 30/06 chamber, not a problem. I reamed the chamber to 30 Gibbs. The 30 Gibbs will clean up a 30/06 chamber. It was suggested I use the 30 Ackley chamber reamer and I thought that could cause me to be in the twilight zone. WHY? Because I checked the chamber specs and decided the Ackley reamer would not clean up the 30/06 chamber.

But, even that would not lock me up, all it meant was my chamber would be an Ackley Improved 30/06 chamber but it would be version 3, even that would not drive me to the curb because I am not 'THE CASE FORMER' bu I am another case former.

F. Guffey

jmorris · February 18, 2016, 04:20 PM

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I am the only one that has the tool for precession grinding the bottom of a die or top of the shell holder.

I just used a lathe.

tangolima · February 18, 2016, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. Guffey

A mm? that would be about .040"; with 14 threads per inch that would be over half a turn. Half a turn would be .0356". When using a feeler gage I mananage at least 15 different length cases if I decided to separate the cases length by .002" each.F. Guffey

1 mm on the CIRCUMFERENCE. That is equivalent to 7/1000 of a turn, or 0.0005" downward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. Guffey

Who is using a feeler gage under a load.F. Guffey

The feeler gauge is kept between the brass head and the deck of the shell holder during sizing, is it not?

-TL

F. Guffey · February 18, 2016, 06:41 PM

How many inches in 1 mm? The answer is 0.0393700787402.
We assume you are converting between inch and millimeter. It is real easy for a reloader to keep up with. The 10 mm is close to the 40 caliber.

Is it not? You are catching on, I was thinking I was going to run out of ways to explain it. Yes the case is raised off of the deck of the shell holder to increases the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. And there is that part where we may never get around to talking about. And yes that puts the feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and case head.

I guess you are going to tell me there is enough weight/pressure to imprint the case head onto the feeler gage. There is nothing like starting over every day as thought it was a new day.

F. Guffey.

tangolima · February 18, 2016, 06:45 PM

It won't be necessary to start over. I'm quite done here. Thank you.

-TL

jmorris · February 18, 2016, 07:02 PM

I don't think you would hurt a decent feeler gauge doing what your talking about. I actually did a "field repair" on an air compressor more than a decade ago using two of them to replace the reed valves, still working.

Just not needed the way I set up dies. I know a lot of instructions say run the die down to the shell plate and tighten it up (some add in some amount of rotation after contact as well) but I set them either by a case gauge or by the method written about above. Not to mention many times I use a shell plate/holder that was made by a different manufacture than the die. No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by. No need to worry about numbers that are inconsequential, if you can get them set right in the end.

Gunplummer · February 18, 2016, 08:12 PM

I just kind of drifted back to this mess. So, a Carcano. I have owned a couple Type "I" Carcanos, and all of them had really tight chambers with original Japanese ammo. Maybe Italy had their own specs with Military stuff.

F. Guffey · February 20, 2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Not to mention many times I use a shell plate/holder that was made by a different manufacture than the die. No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by. No need to worry about numbers that are inconsequential, if you can get them set right in the end.

Quote:

No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by.

I have shell holders, lots of shell holders. I have presses that require two shell holders. I have a reason to think there is an industrial standard for shell holder because there is a standard. My shell holders have a deck height of .125”. I have height gages and I have depth gages and there is the dial caliper.

I have Redding shell holders, I have Herter shell holders, I have RCBS shell holders with 4 different designs; all of my RCBS shell holders have a deck height of .125”. And I have Lee shell holders, I have Hollywood shell holders, I have C&H shell holders. And then I have shell holders that were made in the ‘50s, I do not use them but I have them JIC (just in case). The deck height of the old shell holders range from .125” to .116”. The top of the shell holders have not been ground to reduce the deck height and the shell holders are not stamped with the deck height; even thought the old shell holders are stamped with two different companies both brands were made by one manufacturer.

I have shell holders that screw on to the ram, I do not use them but I have them JIC.

And then I have one set of Redding Competition Shell holders. I paid $5.00 for the set of 5. Again; I do not use them but I have them JIC. Three of the 5 shell holders are off by .001” each. That does not drive me to the curb. Anything I can do with the set of 5 I can do with a standard shell holder plus I can go -.012” below minimum length to infinity beyond the .010” over minimum length/full length sized.

F. Guffey

February 17, 2016, 02:18 PM	#53
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,740	Brian, There is no SAAMI spec for this cartridge. The CIP drawing is as close as we'll get. This means they expect you to use the old-fashioned method of trying to measure to the shoulder and case body or the shoulder and neck intersections (L1 and L2 on the drawing). The chamber dimensions are minimums, so if you fire and neck size a case several times until it has no more play in the chamber, you can measure if it exceeds those numbers. Another approach is to use the primer insertion method with a fired case that has been decapped without resizing. Not the most precise approach, but serviceable. You can also calculate the equivalent diameter for a SAAMI style shoulder datum and measure that. It looks like a 0.375" datum would work and in the chamber it would be 1.4687" forward of the breech end of a minimum chamber (of the primer, if you use that method). Note that the case must be fired to fit the chamber because the Europeans, not having a common datum for the shoulder of the case and chamber, as SAAMI does, don't always keep the angles of the case and chamber shoulders exactly the same. In the 7.62×45 the chamber shoulder has a 50.2294° included angle and the case has a 49.7275° included angle, forcing contact to be made first near the neck. I suppose the thinking is that it would be harder to chamber if the case shoulder body were sized too long, but I don't see how that would happen. If you make your own datum finder with a reamed 0.375" hole, you can measure this all easily. If you use a caliper case comparator, you'll get a low reading due to the small radius at the mouth of the hole in its adapter. So you could calibrate for that by zeroing the comparator on caliper anvil and then measuring a good quality 30-06 GO gauge with it. The result will be a little short, but if you multiply it by 1.41 (the ratio of the sines of the shoulder half angles) that's the error you can expect measuring your cartridge's headspace with that same adapter. This assumes a uniform radius on the adapter, which you probably won't have exactly, but the method is going to get you within a thousandth or so, just the same. That head is the size of a 220 Russian, but the 220 Russian is too short (39 mm) to get a case out of. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 13, 2016, 06:44 PM	#51
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	That information puts a whole new vortex on the situation. The probability that this rifle w a s made out of saami specs, as your die was, is high. It should come as no surprise that a chamber might exceed a die's tolerance to the point that it is a problem. The question that comes up over and over is what part of the fit is defective. Sending some fired brass and a chamber cast to rcbs may help you get a good set of dies.

February 17, 2016, 10:26 PM	#55
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,173	Thanks gentlemen for your inputs. Food for the thought indeed. I am forming the brass from 6.5 carcano. It is a obsolete milsurp round. I am afraid saami has little bearings. I mostly ignore all that and focus on making ammunition to fit one rifle. A tight, rather than short, chamber is a probability. Couldn't get a factory cartridge to try, so went the other route. I chucked one of my formed brass, upon which the bolt could barely close, to my drill. Span and sanded down its body diameter so that it actually wriggled in the chamber. No change to the bolt closing. Short chamber it is. Or the die is too long. I couldn't screw down the die any further, as the shell holder started contacting the bottom of the die. I don't like the feeler gauge business myself, so I looked somewhere else before grinding. The formed brass has thick metal under its shoulder. Perhaps it sprang back. I annealed the area thoroughly before forming, and I formed the brass several times till resistance had noticeably reduced. It helped. It chambered and I still had a hair line between the die bottom and shell holder top. I don't need to grind anything after all. I even shot some of the rounds I made. It was fun. Thanks again for your help. -TL

February 18, 2016, 02:01 PM	#61
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,173	I don't try to measure the distance between the shoulder and the breech face in terms of inches and thousandths of. It is meaningless to me. I screw down the die progressively till the brass chambers without resistance, and then add a little more, a mm or so on the die's circumference. I never worry about saami specs or headspace gauges, because I am not cutting a chamber for a customer, nor producing ammunitions for public consumption. I'm just making rounds for this particular rifle. It is rather simple really. Feeler gauge or not, it works the same. It don't like using feeler gauge as shim as it is a measurement tool, not for taking load. -TL

February 18, 2016, 03:23 PM	#65
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I'd like to ask, would it be best to remove and shorten the barrel so it can be rechambered to the best "standard" ammo configuration, or would it be better to have a die custom made to use and form brass to work with his chamber dimensions? I wonder if rechambering would be easier, as a good Smith could do it on-site.

February 18, 2016, 03:36 PM	#66
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,173	You need to have the reamer to ream the chamber longer. I mostly shoot worn out milsurp rifles. Short chambers are rather rare. -TL

February 18, 2016, 03:56 PM	#68
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	And then there was that time I had an FN with a long? 30/06 chamber, not a problem. I reamed the chamber to 30 Gibbs. The 30 Gibbs will clean up a 30/06 chamber. It was suggested I use the 30 Ackley chamber reamer and I thought that could cause me to be in the twilight zone. WHY? Because I checked the chamber specs and decided the Ackley reamer would not clean up the 30/06 chamber. But, even that would not lock me up, all it meant was my chamber would be an Ackley Improved 30/06 chamber but it would be version 3, even that would not drive me to the curb because I am not 'THE CASE FORMER' bu I am another case former. F. Guffey

February 18, 2016, 06:41 PM	#71
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	How many inches in 1 mm? The answer is 0.0393700787402. We assume you are converting between inch and millimeter. It is real easy for a reloader to keep up with. The 10 mm is close to the 40 caliber. Is it not? You are catching on, I was thinking I was going to run out of ways to explain it. Yes the case is raised off of the deck of the shell holder to increases the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. And there is that part where we may never get around to talking about. And yes that puts the feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and case head. I guess you are going to tell me there is enough weight/pressure to imprint the case head onto the feeler gage. There is nothing like starting over every day as thought it was a new day. F. Guffey.

February 18, 2016, 06:45 PM	#72
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,173	It won't be necessary to start over. I'm quite done here. Thank you. -TL

February 18, 2016, 07:02 PM	#73
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	I don't think you would hurt a decent feeler gauge doing what your talking about. I actually did a "field repair" on an air compressor more than a decade ago using two of them to replace the reed valves, still working. Just not needed the way I set up dies. I know a lot of instructions say run the die down to the shell plate and tighten it up (some add in some amount of rotation after contact as well) but I set them either by a case gauge or by the method written about above. Not to mention many times I use a shell plate/holder that was made by a different manufacture than the die. No reason to think there is an industry standard hat everyone goes by. No need to worry about numbers that are inconsequential, if you can get them set right in the end.

February 18, 2016, 08:12 PM	#74
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I just kind of drifted back to this mess. So, a Carcano. I have owned a couple Type "I" Carcanos, and all of them had really tight chambers with original Japanese ammo. Maybe Italy had their own specs with Military stuff.