Difference between a good 1911 and a REALLY good 1911 - With large images

[BConklin]

Granted I'm new to 1911's but I took some time looking for one, did a bit of online research and visited quite a few shops looking over and handling all their offerings and picking the salesperson's brains for information.

What I found was that in the shops that had DWs, Kimbers, Springfields and Colts in their new gun cases - when I asked the salesperson which they considered to be the best ....the gun that they would buy for themselves... they each handed me a Dan Wesson. This happened 3 out of 3 times.

They all said they loved the guns, they all said they considered them to be the finest production 1911's they offered.

One guy - a former state trooper and veteran employee of a shop that's been carrying them for many years, told me that in all the years they've carried them he's only seen one come back for repair. It had a buggered screw hole in the grip frame.

I considered their opinions - but I admit what put me over the top when I went with the Valor is that I freaking loved it! I don't know about slide to frame fit...all I know is the slide doesn't wobble and it operates like it's on ball bearings.

The only gun I handled that came close to floating my boat like the DW did was a second hand Les Baer

I hope it shoots as well as it looks and feels - I just got it and haven't been to the range yet. But I have a hunch I'm going to love shooting as well.

[zombieslayer]

The DWs are excellent. The slide does feel like its on roller bearings. Smooooth...

[ttheel]

In terms of production 1911's, in my opinion, you cant do better than a Dan Wesson. The guns coming out of their shop right now are top notch.

[Peter M. Eick]

If you think DW's are smooth, handle a Les Baer. I shoot my DW 10mm and my Baer 10mm and every time I do I am always amazed at how much smoother and tighter the Baer is over the DW. That is what an extra $600 buys you I guess.

[zombieslayer]

Theres no denying Les Baer makes a great pistol. I looked at several before I bought my DW. Thing is- aesthetically they all had some feature I didnt like. A billboard on the slide, forward cocking serrations, skeleton trigger, etc. Thwy just didnt look as good to me. Im sure that theyre great, and most folks like the styling. They just visually seem like the Sigs of the high end 1911 world. Just my opinionated ramblings.

[WVsig]

Theres no denying Les Baer makes a great pistol. I looked at several before I bought my DW. Thing is- aesthetically they all had some feature I didnt like. A billboard on the slide, forward cocking serrations, skeleton trigger, etc. Thwy just didnt look as good to me. Im sure that theyre great, and most folks like the styling. They just visually seem like the Sigs of the high end 1911 world. Just my opinionated ramblings.

Everyone has their own esthetic so if the Baer does not fit yours it may not be the pistol for you.

That said I think you an others are missing the #1 advantage a Les Baer has over most other 1911s in the sub $2000 price range. The barrel is HARD FIT! You cannot say that about the DW, Kimber, Colt, even an Ed Brown...

[zombieslayer]

Ahhh... Ed Brown... I was just looking at some yesterday. I may have to sell a few of my guns to get one.

[WVsig]

Ed Browns are beautiful guns but $$$ for $$$ the Baer will be more accurate. IHMO For the same money the Baer will have guaranteed accuracy of 1 1/2" at 50 yards. Ed offers no such guarantee. Not that it matters for most of us...

Kobra 5" is a $2295+ gun




Custom Carry 5" is a $1830 + $295.00 for 1 1/2" @ 50 yards guarantee.

[ausher]

heres my full rail trp. bought it used and it is tight. no wiggles or any kind of movements at all. the bull barrel has no play either.

[bubbaturbo]

Anybody notice a pattern?

I think 1911 owners fit into three categories:
(1) is it functional right now
(2) is it functional now and will it be durable
(3) does it function now and does it look/feel good and
(4) is it functional, durable, and look/feel good.

There are a number of companies out there assembling 1911 pistols from out-sourced parts, three that come to mind are:
Dan Wesson
Guncrafter
Nighthawk
Fusion

[9x19]

Nope... for me Fusion will always be at the bottom of the list... and not in a good way.

[idek]

Anybody notice a pattern?


I think 1911 owners fit into three categories:
(1) is it functional right now
(2) is it functional now and will it be durable
(3) does it function now and does it look/feel good and
(4) is it functional, durable, and look/feel good.


There are a number of companies out there assembling 1911 pistols from out-sourced parts, three that come to mind are:
Dan Wesson
Guncrafter
Nighthawk
Fusion

Yes, that's three posts now that have lists

[bubbaturbo]

Yes, that's three posts now that have lists

Good one.

[darkgael]

Custom Carry 5" is a $1830 + $295.00 for 1 1/2" @ 50 yards guarantee.

Y'know......I was going to say that "you can get that with a Gold Cup and a good gunsmith for less money."
But.....it has been a long time since I did that and I wonder whether it's true at this point in time.
You can buy the gun. There are some very competent smiths working and accurizing .45s. I no longer know what the charge is for such work. Anyone?
Pete

[sailskidrive]

I would think the dimensional fidelity of the frame and slide in relation to each other would be the ultimate measure of how well the they "fit". However, the pics you posted are pretty damn impressive. :-)

I'm going to run downstairs now and take a look at my Kimber TLE to see how it compares. I rarely shoot it as 1911 single stacks feel small in my hand.

[Cemo]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606423

[JohnO]

WVSIG, What is HARD fitting a barrel? This is the first time I've heard this term.

Thanks

[9x19]

Hard fit means the barrel is fit by hand to a specific slide and frame.

This is much different than a production fit where the lugs and feet are cut to a "drop in" dimension.

First the hood and upper lugs are fit to the slide (with more engagement than a production fit), then the feet are cut with the slide/barrel assembled to the frame, and then measured for the proper length barrel link (for this pistol).

It doesn't take much to describe it, but it takes a practiced eye, a wee bit of skill and putting the parts together/taking them apart a few hundred times, to achieve the correct fit.

Of course the barrel to bushing fit is also held to tighter than production standards, but that is a good bit easier to do.

[RickB]

I took some time looking for one, did a bit of online research and visited quite a few shops looking over and handling all their offerings and picking the salesperson's brains for information.

What I found was that in the shops that had DWs, Kimbers, Springfields and Colts in their new gun cases - when I asked the salesperson which they considered to be the best ....the gun that they would buy for themselves... they each handed me a Dan Wesson. This happened 3 out of 3 times.

Were you comparing apples to oranges? That is, three years ago I would have put Dan Wesson in the same category, market-wise as the other brands listed, but DW went up-market, and their guns are now priced more like a Baer than a Springfield. Now, there are $1500-$2000 Springfields, so that would still be a fair comparison, but I'd expect a $1500 Dan Wesson to be nicer than a $900 Springfield, Kimber, or Colt.

[ttheel]

Were you comparing apples to oranges? That is, three years ago I would have put Dan Wesson in the same category, market-wise as the other brands listed, but DW went up-market, and their guns are now priced more like a Baer than a Springfield. Now, there are $1500-$2000 Springfields, so that would still be a fair comparison, but I'd expect a $1500 Dan Wesson to be nicer than a $900 Springfield, Kimber, or Colt.
Today 06:14 PM

While the old Dan Wesson's were good the guns they have been producing since 2010 are of significantly higher quality. They use some of the highest quality internals available, forged frames slides and barrels, and Zero MIM parts. That cannot be said about the $900 pistols listed. A Dan Wesson Valor may be the best bang for the buck on the market when you balance cost, performance and quality.

[Officer's Match]

Theres no denying Les Baer makes a great pistol. I looked at several before I bought my DW. Thing is- aesthetically they all had some feature I didnt like. A billboard on the slide, forward cocking serrations, skeleton trigger, etc. Thwy just didnt look as good to me. Im sure that theyre great, and most folks like the styling. They just visually seem like the Sigs of the high end 1911 world. Just my opinionated ramblings.

That's why there's chocolate and vanilla.

I find Baer's far more attractive than the vast majority of other 1911's. I think their triggerguard undercut is the best there is, I like their hand cut frontstrap checkering, their sharp/fine cocking serrations (albeit sans FCS is my aesthetic preference - a zero cost option) and the profile of their grip safety. I also like that Baer continues to make bluing a standard finish option, unlike most others. Lastly, there is something that just feels right about them in my hands.

[BConklin]

RickB -

in answer to your question - Yes, I was comparing apples to apples. In fact I started with the cheapest and gradually moved to the more expensive guns. After comparing all the guns in the sub $1000 range I went to the $1500 +- range. When I made my final choice I had two guns in front of me that I'd narrowed it down to - a second hand Les Baer and the DW Valor. Though the Baer was a beauty - I liked the Valor more.

But what I was hoping to convey in my original post was that when I found shops that carried all of the makers I mentioned, the employees of those gun stores that I talked to invariably thought the Dan Wesson to be the best of the lot. Since they have the whole range of apples, oranges and otherwise right before them I listened closely to what they had to say.

[BConklin]

Originally posted by Officer's Match

Lastly, there is something that just feels right about them in my hands.
__________________

I respect that - it's the main reason that I finally went with the Valor...above all the others - it just felt so right in my hands.

[JohnO]

Thanks 9x19. I must be getting old. That use to be call "Hand" fit.

[BConklin]

The match barrels on DW Valors are hand fit as well.