Home Invasion / Lights On or Off? - Page 3

JohnH1963 · January 3, 2009, 12:23 AM

I dont think its a good idea to clear the house, but it would be good to flip on as many lights as you can in the house. Lets say you are at the top of the stairs. I think it would be good to flip some of the downstairs lights on without going down there.

I also think its better to yell in a loud, mean and angry voice something like this: "Who is there? I have called the police and armed with a pistol. If you do not get out of hear right now, then I will fire down at you. Get out now!"

I dont believe stealthy and sleak is the best way to go in these scenarios. Lots of yelling letting them know someone is home and lights on to make it more clear.

Whoever is in the house will then make a choice to either fight or flight. I believe the choice will be flight. If you were a burglar and all the lights came on with someone yelling in a mean angry tone that they have a gun and called the police, what would you do?

From a legal standpoint, I think its best to give someone fair warning before firing so it looks like you gave them a chance. You turned on the lights so you didnt blindly fire into the darkness. You yelled a warning that you would fire if they came up the stairs and allowed the burglar to exit. etc...

Creature · January 3, 2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Seriously...warning shots are inherently problematic when it comes to SD and HD.

why?

Because a gun is not a warning device. You should fire your gun only when you have no choice. Besides, warning shots are illegal in most, if not all fifty states.

JohnH1963 · January 3, 2009, 02:00 AM

I have always thought that if someone was downstairs, instead of a flash bang, why not throw down a firecracker and let them know whats up.

Tucker 1371 · January 3, 2009, 03:53 AM

No personal experience in this one but my guess would be off, especially in my case because I would have to move toward a BG's point of entry to turn the lights on. Also I have to agree with those who say that you know your house better than an intruder can, use the dark to your advantage and buy night sights for your gun. Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can get night sights for an AK74?

Hook686 · January 3, 2009, 05:46 AM

In todays electronic world, it is not difficult to have lights turn on when motion is detected in the room. Not having this in the sleeping quarters would help keep the intruder highlighted and his/her whereabouts known. A noise without motion detection would be just that.

Para Bellum · January 3, 2009, 06:09 AM

We have sensor lights all over the place except the bedroom. So whoever moves at night in our home, stands in light. Only the bedroom (from which I will be aiming at the bedroom door while calling 911) will stay dark. The only light in there will be my tritium sights.

Creature · January 3, 2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

We have sensor lights all over the place except the bedroom.

This sounds very interesting. Please explain in better detail.

hogdogs · January 3, 2009, 11:42 AM

Creature, they are a "remove and replace" item. Fits in a standard switch box. You see them often in restrooms of businesses to save energy.
http://www.smarthome.com/2034WS/Prog...-Switch/p.aspx
This is one example...
Brent

JAYBIRD78 · January 3, 2009, 03:14 PM

Lights off...........my ninja suit is black.

BE SAFE

Para Bellum · January 3, 2009, 06:33 PM

here it is. Just plug it in and it works for you. Costs about EUR 10,- (yes, Europe so U$ 15,-) and can be found on this webiste:
(I'm sure you have that in the US as well)
http://www.pentatech.de/fr_sz.htm

Hawaiian Eye · January 3, 2009, 10:34 PM

I have night lights around the house, but a recent power outage put the house into near total darkness. I decided some battery powered light source would be better. Then the subject of motion detector lights came up. Great idea. So I googled around and found this unit. It's a battery powered, motion detector night light. "C" batteries that last for about a year.

http://www.smarthome.com/251SL/Motio...t-MB530/p.aspx

troy_mclure · January 4, 2009, 12:28 AM

i just string up tripwires attached to flares on my way to bed!

M14fan · January 4, 2009, 04:38 PM

I keep all likely entry points lit at night using low powered flurescent lights. I will always be approaching these areas from the concealment of darkness, the intruder will always find himself exposed, and the lighting is not so bright as to cause me the momentary photosensitivity commonly experienced when moving from an area of darkness to an area of light. No need for weapon lights, no need to turn on/off any lights. Low powered flurescents add little to my energy costs and last for years.

Yankee Traveler · January 27, 2009, 12:04 PM

Let the German Shepherd Dog clear the house for me. Generally speaking, they could care less if the lights are on or not, and are letting the BG(s) know that you are now awake even before they BG(s) are inside.
Another great deterent is motion sensing perimeter lighting.

Dobies work well too.

Glock_fan · January 27, 2009, 12:19 PM

I didn't read through all the posts, but this is all I have. I use LED night lights I purchased at Walgreens through out my house. They have a light sensor on them so they automaticly come on, and they only cost about $.25 a year to use. The amount of light the throw out combined with night sights on my M&P45 is all I need.
-Kurt

KnightZero · January 27, 2009, 12:56 PM

I'll have to go for lights off. I expect any intruder who enters my home with intent to rob to make a beeline for my computer area, which is persistently bathed in an eerie red glow from the components. The computer area is directly at the bottom of my staircase, and if he enters that area, or climbs the stairs, he will be directly within my line of sight from my bed, or from the bathroom. I also have a maglite with a red LED bulb, which won't blind, but will certainly illuminate whatever I need lit up - in case of multiple BG's heading up the stairs after I engage the first, I can light em up and take em down.

However, in reality, upon hearing my last "bump in the night," I lept from bed, went crashing down my staircase, and finally regained my footing to discover that I was somewhat lacking in clothing, weaponry, light, and thankfully, bad guys. My home invader was a marauding tree limb that smacked the side of my building.

treo · January 27, 2009, 03:33 PM

My response is dictated by my circumstances
1 Single level dwelling
2 Only occupants are my wife and I
3 Three entrances, all on the farside
of the house
4 floorplan will funnel any intruder into
the LR/DR
5 Outside lighting backlights both rooms

In the event I hear a bump in the night I can step right outside the BR door and cover most of the first floor and the only way up from the basement. I’m in the shadows and anyone in the house has to cross one of the two lighted zones. Under those conditions, I think my best bet is to wait there in the shadows and let them come to me. More lights would be a disadvantage

Erik · January 27, 2009, 03:47 PM

Another my response is dictated by my circumstances answer. Everyone's should be, really.

In instances where I believe someone may be in my home, I leave the lights off, and will produce it as necessary from either a hand held or weapon mounted light. At the point I no longer believe anyone may be in my house, I may turn lights on for a quick inspection of things. (I live in a windy area, and things frequently get knocked and blown about.)

Why?

I am very comfortable navigating my home, if it comes to that, using ambient light. Holding a choke point from a position of cover and concealment is easy in comparison.

That's how I train and practice it; I have a comfort level.

And all (most?) of the previously expressed concerns about turning on the lights.

Theojt · January 27, 2009, 04:48 PM

There is some good discussion in this thread. I started implementing some of the Insteon controls a while back - I like them a lot but they are a bit expensive.

I regard to a pistol mounted light - I was under the impression that the preferred approach is to carry said light in the non-weapon hand away from your body. That way any shots aimed at the source of the light would not strike you. What are the thoughts of those who carry it on their pistol?

Superhouse 15, I can't believe I'm asking but... how do you like your balls?

Erik · January 27, 2009, 08:23 PM

"I regard to a pistol mounted light - I was under the impression that the preferred approach is to carry said light in the non-weapon hand away from your body. That way any shots aimed at the source of the light would not strike you. What are the thoughts of those who carry it on their pistol?"

There are more people today than ever before utilizing weapons mounted and close held flashlight techniques and relatively few documented instances of such users taking fire by shooters aiming at the light.

If still concerned, being able to flow from technique to technique as necessary has merit:
http://www.surefire.com/articles-handheld_techniques

http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag...ht_technic_one

http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag...ht_technic_two

http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag..._technic_three

bds32 · January 28, 2009, 01:00 PM

I agree with some of the posters about not clearing your house if you know a bad guy is inside the house. Even patrol officers will surround and call-out if they know for sure. However, there is a problem, what if you have a split floorplan with kids on one side of the house and you and the wife on the other? Do what you got to do to protect your family. If you've got everyone in one room, get low behind something solid, get your gun trained on the door, call 911 and wait.

If you've got to clear the house, unless you can turn all of the lights on at once, keep the lights off. . Then move as slowly and quietly as you can, use your flashlight only as needed (intermittedly as you clear as not to completely telegraph your position). Stop frequently and listen. Depending on what you hear, consider challenging any intruder with loud verbal commands like, "Get out of my house, I've got a gun, I will shoot you, the Police are on the way." If you've got him pinpointed somewhere, create a little distance, get cover, get low, and challenge him out. If he does something stupid, solve the problem appropriately.

raimius · January 28, 2009, 06:12 PM

Does anyone have a light that can shine toward the entry point of your bedroom? That would iluminate the suspect for easy ID, probably cause a temporary reduction in their vision, and keep you from being the source of the light (i.e. target). Defender in the shadows, suspect in the spotlight and in a natural funnel. This would also make target ID easier, which could be VERY valuable if the suspect turns out to be a non-BG.

Just a thought.

Stevie-Ray · January 28, 2009, 07:05 PM

Animals are always great to have in this situation. Dogs for the obvious reason, but even cats are better than nothing. For example, everybody that comes through my door is a potential new buddy for either of my cats. So when I hear that bump, either the cats are going to be jumping off the bed to go greet their new best friend, or they're going to be jumping back onto the bed telling me, "Wasn't me-I didn't do it" before I even say anything. Oh yeah, complete angels, always.

Handgun & flashlight at my side, remote lights, and a fairly small and fairly secure house, but those cats are great at supplying information, nonetheless.

jjyergler · January 28, 2009, 08:33 PM

First, don't try to clear a house by yourself. (Obligitatory statement out of the way.)

Second, there is one tactical rule that I learned as an 11B: Never be between a light and a threat. If you find yourself in a position in which you are in the dark with a threat in the area, never allow a light to be behind you. You then become a target. Never shillouette yourself in a doorway or window. Nightlights and moonlight will give someone a perfect target.

Remember: stay low, stay shadowed, move fast.

BillCA · January 29, 2009, 02:40 AM

In any situation where you believe an intruder is inside your house, your best bet is to either
a) take a position that allows you advanced warning of their approach.
b) hold up in a locked room with your weapon(s) ready.

Do not go looking for trouble. You might find plenty of it.

In homes where family members are not accessible to you it is advisable to have a practiced escape & alarm plan. That is youngsters are shown how to escape via windows and run to one or two trusted neighbor's homes to sound the alarm.

Almost nothing beats having a protective family dog in the house (unless it's two or more dogs). Dogs provide early warning of prowlers, raise the alarm and keep an intruder off balance. Having a dog or dogs sleep with the kids on the far side of the house will provide them a good deterrent for any intruder.

January 3, 2009, 06:09 AM	#56
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,897	IR-Sensor Lights We have sensor lights all over the place except the bedroom. So whoever moves at night in our home, stands in light. Only the bedroom (from which I will be aiming at the bedroom door while calling 911) will stay dark. The only light in there will be my tritium sights. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 3, 2009, 06:33 PM	#60
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,897	The sensor lights mentioned before... here it is. Just plug it in and it works for you. Costs about EUR 10,- (yes, Europe so U$ 15,-) and can be found on this webiste: (I'm sure you have that in the US as well) http://www.pentatech.de/fr_sz.htm __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 4, 2009, 04:38 PM	#63
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 782	Always Lit I keep all likely entry points lit at night using low powered flurescent lights. I will always be approaching these areas from the concealment of darkness, the intruder will always find himself exposed, and the lighting is not so bright as to cause me the momentary photosensitivity commonly experienced when moving from an area of darkness to an area of light. No need for weapon lights, no need to turn on/off any lights. Low powered flurescents add little to my energy costs and last for years. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

January 27, 2009, 03:47 PM	#68
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Another my response is dictated by my circumstances answer. Everyone's should be, really. In instances where I believe someone may be in my home, I leave the lights off, and will produce it as necessary from either a hand held or weapon mounted light. At the point I no longer believe anyone may be in my house, I may turn lights on for a quick inspection of things. (I live in a windy area, and things frequently get knocked and blown about.) Why? I am very comfortable navigating my home, if it comes to that, using ambient light. Holding a choke point from a position of cover and concealment is easy in comparison. That's how I train and practice it; I have a comfort level. And all (most?) of the previously expressed concerns about turning on the lights. Last edited by Erik; January 27, 2009 at 04:03 PM.

January 27, 2009, 08:23 PM	#70
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	"I regard to a pistol mounted light - I was under the impression that the preferred approach is to carry said light in the non-weapon hand away from your body. That way any shots aimed at the source of the light would not strike you. What are the thoughts of those who carry it on their pistol?" There are more people today than ever before utilizing weapons mounted and close held flashlight techniques and relatively few documented instances of such users taking fire by shooters aiming at the light. If still concerned, being able to flow from technique to technique as necessary has merit: http://www.surefire.com/articles-handheld_techniques http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag...ht_technic_one http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag...ht_technic_two http://www.surefireinstitute.com/pag..._technic_three Last edited by Erik; January 27, 2009 at 10:22 PM.

January 3, 2009, 12:23 AM	#51
JohnH1963 Junior member Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 416	I dont think its a good idea to clear the house, but it would be good to flip on as many lights as you can in the house. Lets say you are at the top of the stairs. I think it would be good to flip some of the downstairs lights on without going down there. I also think its better to yell in a loud, mean and angry voice something like this: "Who is there? I have called the police and armed with a pistol. If you do not get out of hear right now, then I will fire down at you. Get out now!" I dont believe stealthy and sleak is the best way to go in these scenarios. Lots of yelling letting them know someone is home and lights on to make it more clear. Whoever is in the house will then make a choice to either fight or flight. I believe the choice will be flight. If you were a burglar and all the lights came on with someone yelling in a mean angry tone that they have a gun and called the police, what would you do? From a legal standpoint, I think its best to give someone fair warning before firing so it looks like you gave them a chance. You turned on the lights so you didnt blindly fire into the darkness. You yelled a warning that you would fire if they came up the stairs and allowed the burglar to exit. etc...

January 3, 2009, 02:00 AM	#53
JohnH1963 Junior member Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 416	I have always thought that if someone was downstairs, instead of a flash bang, why not throw down a firecracker and let them know whats up.

January 3, 2009, 03:53 AM	#54
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	No personal experience in this one but my guess would be off, especially in my case because I would have to move toward a BG's point of entry to turn the lights on. Also I have to agree with those who say that you know your house better than an intruder can, use the dark to your advantage and buy night sights for your gun. Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can get night sights for an AK74?

January 3, 2009, 05:46 AM	#55
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	In todays electronic world, it is not difficult to have lights turn on when motion is detected in the room. Not having this in the sleeping quarters would help keep the intruder highlighted and his/her whereabouts known. A noise without motion detection would be just that.

January 3, 2009, 11:42 AM	#58
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Creature, they are a "remove and replace" item. Fits in a standard switch box. You see them often in restrooms of businesses to save energy. http://www.smarthome.com/2034WS/Prog...-Switch/p.aspx This is one example... Brent

January 3, 2009, 03:14 PM	#59
JAYBIRD78 Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: People's Republik of Illinois...in "gun valley" Posts: 366	Lights off...........my ninja suit is black. BE SAFE

January 3, 2009, 10:34 PM	#61
Hawaiian Eye Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 24	I have night lights around the house, but a recent power outage put the house into near total darkness. I decided some battery powered light source would be better. Then the subject of motion detector lights came up. Great idea. So I googled around and found this unit. It's a battery powered, motion detector night light. "C" batteries that last for about a year. http://www.smarthome.com/251SL/Motio...t-MB530/p.aspx

January 4, 2009, 12:28 AM	#62
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i just string up tripwires attached to flares on my way to bed!

January 27, 2009, 12:04 PM	#64
Yankee Traveler Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 265	Let the German Shepherd Dog clear the house for me. Generally speaking, they could care less if the lights are on or not, and are letting the BG(s) know that you are now awake even before they BG(s) are inside. Another great deterent is motion sensing perimeter lighting. Dobies work well too.

January 27, 2009, 12:19 PM	#65
Glock_fan Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 118	I didn't read through all the posts, but this is all I have. I use LED night lights I purchased at Walgreens through out my house. They have a light sensor on them so they automaticly come on, and they only cost about $.25 a year to use. The amount of light the throw out combined with night sights on my M&P45 is all I need. -Kurt

January 27, 2009, 12:56 PM	#66
KnightZero Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Paoli, PA (for now) Posts: 100	I'll have to go for lights off. I expect any intruder who enters my home with intent to rob to make a beeline for my computer area, which is persistently bathed in an eerie red glow from the components. The computer area is directly at the bottom of my staircase, and if he enters that area, or climbs the stairs, he will be directly within my line of sight from my bed, or from the bathroom. I also have a maglite with a red LED bulb, which won't blind, but will certainly illuminate whatever I need lit up - in case of multiple BG's heading up the stairs after I engage the first, I can light em up and take em down. However, in reality, upon hearing my last "bump in the night," I lept from bed, went crashing down my staircase, and finally regained my footing to discover that I was somewhat lacking in clothing, weaponry, light, and thankfully, bad guys. My home invader was a marauding tree limb that smacked the side of my building.

January 27, 2009, 03:33 PM	#67
treo Junior member Join Date: March 3, 2008 Posts: 22	My response is dictated by my circumstances 1 Single level dwelling 2 Only occupants are my wife and I 3 Three entrances, all on the farside of the house 4 floorplan will funnel any intruder into the LR/DR 5 Outside lighting backlights both rooms In the event I hear a bump in the night I can step right outside the BR door and cover most of the first floor and the only way up from the basement. I’m in the shadows and anyone in the house has to cross one of the two lighted zones. Under those conditions, I think my best bet is to wait there in the shadows and let them come to me. More lights would be a disadvantage

January 27, 2009, 04:48 PM	#69
Theojt Junior Member Join Date: March 9, 2006 Posts: 14	There is some good discussion in this thread. I started implementing some of the Insteon controls a while back - I like them a lot but they are a bit expensive. I regard to a pistol mounted light - I was under the impression that the preferred approach is to carry said light in the non-weapon hand away from your body. That way any shots aimed at the source of the light would not strike you. What are the thoughts of those who carry it on their pistol? Superhouse 15, I can't believe I'm asking but... how do you like your balls?

January 28, 2009, 01:00 PM	#71
bds32 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 481	I agree with some of the posters about not clearing your house if you know a bad guy is inside the house. Even patrol officers will surround and call-out if they know for sure. However, there is a problem, what if you have a split floorplan with kids on one side of the house and you and the wife on the other? Do what you got to do to protect your family. If you've got everyone in one room, get low behind something solid, get your gun trained on the door, call 911 and wait. If you've got to clear the house, unless you can turn all of the lights on at once, keep the lights off. . Then move as slowly and quietly as you can, use your flashlight only as needed (intermittedly as you clear as not to completely telegraph your position). Stop frequently and listen. Depending on what you hear, consider challenging any intruder with loud verbal commands like, "Get out of my house, I've got a gun, I will shoot you, the Police are on the way." If you've got him pinpointed somewhere, create a little distance, get cover, get low, and challenge him out. If he does something stupid, solve the problem appropriately.

January 28, 2009, 06:12 PM	#72
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	Does anyone have a light that can shine toward the entry point of your bedroom? That would iluminate the suspect for easy ID, probably cause a temporary reduction in their vision, and keep you from being the source of the light (i.e. target). Defender in the shadows, suspect in the spotlight and in a natural funnel. This would also make target ID easier, which could be VERY valuable if the suspect turns out to be a non-BG. Just a thought.

January 28, 2009, 07:05 PM	#73
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	Animals are always great to have in this situation. Dogs for the obvious reason, but even cats are better than nothing. For example, everybody that comes through my door is a potential new buddy for either of my cats. So when I hear that bump, either the cats are going to be jumping off the bed to go greet their new best friend, or they're going to be jumping back onto the bed telling me, "Wasn't me-I didn't do it" before I even say anything. Oh yeah, complete angels, always. Handgun & flashlight at my side, remote lights, and a fairly small and fairly secure house, but those cats are great at supplying information, nonetheless. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

January 28, 2009, 08:33 PM	#74
jjyergler Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2008 Posts: 295	I know this... First, don't try to clear a house by yourself. (Obligitatory statement out of the way.) Second, there is one tactical rule that I learned as an 11B: Never be between a light and a threat. If you find yourself in a position in which you are in the dark with a threat in the area, never allow a light to be behind you. You then become a target. Never shillouette yourself in a doorway or window. Nightlights and moonlight will give someone a perfect target. Remember: stay low, stay shadowed, move fast.

January 29, 2009, 02:40 AM	#75
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,116	In any situation where you believe an intruder is inside your house, your best bet is to either a) take a position that allows you advanced warning of their approach. b) hold up in a locked room with your weapon(s) ready. Do not go looking for trouble. You might find plenty of it. In homes where family members are not accessible to you it is advisable to have a practiced escape & alarm plan. That is youngsters are shown how to escape via windows and run to one or two trusted neighbor's homes to sound the alarm. Almost nothing beats having a protective family dog in the house (unless it's two or more dogs). Dogs provide early warning of prowlers, raise the alarm and keep an intruder off balance. Having a dog or dogs sleep with the kids on the far side of the house will provide them a good deterrent for any intruder.