Military Training

[Musketeer]

GLP,

The bottom line is you do not understand the meaning or value of civic virtue or responsibility. You want to pick and choose how you serve purely to your benifit. At the same time you want to become a LEO, probably for similar "me" based reasoning.

You would serve society by enforcing laws you may not agree with but will not serve society by fighting a war you do not agree with. I fail to see the logic here. It seems to come squarly back to "me."

Wars are not always wrong. They are always tragic, but not always wrong. Some things must be fought for and you do not have a choice. At the same time the society that refuses to fight for what it believes in will be trounced very quickly.

You seem to think many people are picking on you or flaming you. The problem is every thing you post only digs a deeper hole. If you really want to understand something about civic duty and service do some research.

Talk to some real vets, if they are willing to speak, about their experiences.

Watch and read Band of Brothers, especially the interviews and documentary.

Watch Gettysburg and read The Killer Angels.

Watch and read Black Hawk Down.

READ (Do NOT Watch) Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. Given your age and it being "only science fiction" you may find it more palatable. This book did more to help evolve my thinking than any other.

Look at the actions of those on United flight 93. They were not soldiers but I challenge anyone to state those people did not believe in something more important than themselves.

You do not need to be a vet to understand civic virtue but it certainly seems more common in them. Perhaps those who volunteer already posses it or perhaps the service helps to develop in those who already posses it. It will not magically create it though in one with no higher moral code. I haven't served in the military, perhaps it is my loss. I registerred, like every 18 year old and would have gone if called but did not volunteer. At the same time I have spoken to enough vets to understand that people who go through such hardships quickly learn there are things bigger than themselves.

Until you understand a little more do not be surprised when people pounce on you for wanting the government to give you what you want for service on your terms. That is NOT what service is about. Print these pages and read them again in about 10 years after you age and mature, you may be shoked...

[steelheart]

Uhh, Handy -

I think you are jumping to a conclusion that my post does not support. Regarding GLP, I said:

You are a parasite.

You want the training, pay, insurance, travel, experience, status, respect of your countrymen, G.I. mortgage assistance and educational benefits that come from being a soldier (in any branch of the military) but you do not want to do the job of a soldier.

And then I said:

Nope - people who think like GLP are parasites.

BTW, I chose both college and the military (USAF, '85-'89)

My point was that people who try to take all they can from the military and give nothing in return are parasites.

The purpose of being in the military is to serve your country; the military is not the peace corps, the job corps, or some elaborate work-study program to get "free money" for college.

The military exsists to go to war and kill the enemy, period. Anyone who is not willing to go to war and kill the enemy has no business joining any branch of the military.

GLP - and everyone else - should either commit to doing the job of a soldier or stay out of the military. The military needs soldiers, not parasites.

[Leif]

steelheart, thanks for the clarification.

ironrice, you raise an excellent point, in that much of the recruitment advertising conducted by the military these days appears to emphasize exactly those aspects of military service for which GLP is being criticized for wanting despite his personal misgivings about war itself. I think that the Army commercials and literature I see are particularly consistent with regard to this, whereas advertisements for the Marines seem more oriented to the traditional tenets and motivations of military service. While I don't see this as a justification for what rightly is viewed as GLP's 'parasitical' attitude, I can see how that attitude is fostered and reinforced by this type of advertising. Furthermore, a great many people have enlisted in various branches of the military for the 'wrong' reasons throughout American history, i.e. to escape poverty, to seek adventure, to gain training, etc., yet the military institutions of this country certainly have not ground to a halt as a result, nor have those individuals necessarily been the worse for the experience. That having been said, I still would say that GLP probably is better off out of the military, and the armed forces may well be better off without GLP.

Phetro, you stated in response to the question I asked of steelheart:

Unless they are physically or mentally unable to do otherwise: yes. What would you propose to call people that reap the benefit without paying the price?

I propose to call people who are physically and mentally able to enlist in the military, but choose not to for whatever reason, yet continue to reside in the United States and enjoy its benefits, myself and the vast majority of American citizens. Thank you for labeling us as parasitic. There are many other ways to serve one's country than military service, and somehow I doubt that flooding the military with people who'd rather be elsewhere is a wise decision, except maybe in times of dire national emergency.

[DonR101395]

^I want to join for the training, real life experience, and to help me get where I want to be. Thats why I want to join the Coast Guard for this particular job. Its the closest thing to Law Enforcement that I know of in the Military, and the training would do me a lot of good, and it would look really good on police applications. I dont want to join forever. 4 or 5 years, tops.

That training and life experience isn't free. If you're not willing to do the entire job don't ask for any of the training. There are many who've taken the good with the bad and don't care if you're against war or for war, if you join the military that means you are willing to make whatever sacrifice is neccessary. If you're not willing we don't want you. Go to Vo-Tec, go to college, go work at burgerking, but stay out of the military if you think teamwork has an I in it.

[HangFire83]

if you think teamwork has an I in it

Begin Sarcasm

But it does have an "m" and an "e".....me.

End sarcasm

[Eghad]

When I enlisted the only incentive program was

you work - you get paid.

[Shorthair]

I think War is pointless and stupid. Im a firm believer that it is 100% unnecessary, and that the World would be a better place without it. So why should I go and possibly get killed for something that I dont even agree with?

You want to know pointless and stupid? My brother-in-law was killed while a gunner's mate aboard the USCGC Blackthorn. He had served all of two years. Coming out of drydock in Tampa Bay, on a clear, moonlit night in January 1981, an oil tanker came about into his vessel near the Sunshine Skyway bridge and sank it. Half the crew died. He left my sister a widow at 19, with a toddler and another one in her womb.
You want to know another thing I think pointless and stupid? Your thoughtless, selfish, insulting rants about things you aren't even cogent enough to understand, let alone appreciate.
The military is, especially now post 9/11, populated by the finest people this country produces. From the limited exposure I've had to your perspective, you do not, in my opinion, appear to be one of them.

Dave
SGT USMC
1979 - 1984

[Pointer]

If you aren't a soldier at heart...

Stay away from the services...

They all expect you to serve without political bias...

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELECT THE WAR...
You will do as you are told and you will not question your orders...

"Obey NOW and bitch later."

I should be able to live my life how I want to.

SFB... you join the services and you give all that up... totally different laws in the Uniform Code of Military Justice

If you aren't patriotically motivated you don't fit in today's all volunteer military...

As they say, "Come big... or stay home."

[Abndoc]

Sorry to tell you, but the Coast Guard IS a branch of the military. This is especially true in a time of war. They were part of the Treasury Department during peacetime, but in wartime, they belong to the Navy. I think now they are part of Homeland Security during peacetime.

As far as being a slave, the Coast Guard is still run in a military manner. Their law is the UCMJ. They have a rank structure and someone will be above you, giving orders. In wartime, they fight and die like any other branch. If this is not something you can handle, then look for training elsewhere.

Personally, I feel that military service is a privledge and an honor.

[OneInTheChamber]

GLP, stick to video games. You don't belong anywhere near the armed forces; let alone LE.

If you attitude is that all you want is peace; why do you want a job where you carrying a weapon? Why not get a regular job; or go into the fire department or such where you won't be called upon to "make war".

[DonR101395]

But it does have an "m" and an "e".....me.

Yep it sure does and anyone who has worked for me and pointed it out has had the pleasure of doing all of the "team me" details. You know the jobs that require a team of one........taking out the garbage, sweeping, mopping, sorting brass (too bad they started contracting the grass cutting). I don't ask for much, but I demand team loyalty and integrity. If you're on "team me" you don't have either so if the only way I can get you to contribute to the team is increasing team morale by having you clean up after the men are done working I have no problem with that. I can always find a sh*& detail, but I've found it gets harder to find a sh*& head to do it once people realize working as a team, playing as a team and cleaning up as a team is alot more enjoyable than being on "team me".

[epr105]

GLP Standard,

DO NOT JOIN ANY BRANCH OF THE MILITARY!!!!!!! Stay at home and go to college. I do not think you would make a good LEO either at least I would not want you as my partner. When the chips are down you want a level headed ready for combat person next to you, Not someone who might not be able to face the panic and danger and return fire. Go gather some berries and let the hunters hunt.
Ed
EPR105
USMC 1989 - 1991 Gulf War 1
LEO 1994 - ?

[garryc]

GLP, I'd like to slap your back for your comments. Here, stand on this gunwale while I do that. Don't worry, its only 1200 miles to land.
Really, if you join ANY seafaring service you dishonor those who have died in that service, even in peace time. Why don't you read the stories of the U.S.S. Forestall fire and think how you would act. Would you run and hide? Abandon ship without orders? Or would you grab a hose and crawl into a smoking hole to fight it? I bet when the alarm for fire sounds we could find you by following your piss trail, AWAY FROM THE FIRE!! What you would do in the face of an NBC type alarm I don't even want to guess.
In my time in the Navy I fought several fires, up close and personal with them. I saw my best friend incinerated. I didn't run, hide and cower, NOBODY DID!! From your comments I'd say you would make one sorry A## sailor and you wouldn't last long in any command I served in.
Do me a favor; STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM MY SHIPS!! WE NIETHER WANT NOR NEED YOUR SORRY A##!!
( To the rest of you guys, sorry, bit of a flash back)

[CobrayCommando]

garryc, I hear that. The Navy is consistently dangerous to be in, in times of war and peace. Fires, missiles, jets constantly taking off, hatches that can take off fingers, moving parts that can take off limbs, engines that can suck in whole people, and one slip puts you overboard in near freezing temperatures etc... And thats in peacetime. Anyone looking to join thinking its the "easy" branch of the military, better realise that if you don't have your wits about you every second you're going to end up getting hurt! Especially in today's Navy.

[pickpocket]

The Navy is consistently dangerous to be in,

Especially when the swabbies keep messing with the A/C in the Marine's berthing area....

[garryc]

Especially when the swabbies keep messing with the A/C in the Marine's berthing area....

can't say I havent been involved in that a few times.

Of course the famous one I did was when I was TDY to an old LSD. It had an oriental toilet in the marine berthing area. I went to the inlet end, at about 0630 after chow, wadded up a big pile of toilet paper, put it in and lit it on fire. Down the line it went!! Now that was funny

[Cowled_Wolfe]

About serving... Service isn't about learning how to do a job. It's about doing what needs to be done so your kids can live in a free country, and their kids can, and so on...

About the military (and the real world in general)... In school, the teachers were your bosses. They'd hold your hand and sing a song. As soon as you're out of school, you'll find your bosses signifigantly less accomodating.

And finally...

About war... It's in human nature. Deal with it.

Wolfe... (Oh right... About "team me"... If you see the "me" in "team", you're obviously backwards. )

[pickpocket]

Originally Posted by garryc

Of course the famous one I did was when I was TDY to an old LSD. It had an oriental toilet in the marine berthing area. I went to the inlet end, at about 0630 after chow, wadded up a big pile of toilet paper, put it in and lit it on fire. Down the line it went!! Now that was funny

I hate you.

We once sought to pay back our Naval tormentors by sneaking through their berthing areas and shutting off their vents at about 0200. We felt pretty good about then when they all started bit&$ing until we got hit with 5 (yes, FIVE) fire drills in the Marines' berthing. GQ for each one, and we got smoked for two of them. The ship's firemen were having a good chuckle as they tore through our area putting out the "fire"....

Good times.

[mica]

GLP, go to military.com and go to the Coast Guard forum, ask all the questions you have, they will be nice to you and you will get good and accurate answers from people in the CG.

If you think you were flamed here, go to the Marine Corps forum at military.com and post your original post. LOL those guys eat people alive over there.

Semper Fi and a salute to all my military brethren, past and present, yes, Coasties too.

[garryc]

We felt pretty good about then when they all started bit&$ing until we got hit with 5 (yes, FIVE) fire drills in the Marines' berthing. GQ for each one, and we got smoked for two of them. The ship's firemen were having a good chuckle as they tore through our area putting out the "fire

I was a Hull Tech. Firefighting and damage control was one of my jobs. Yes, we were in a position to torment you guys, LOVED IT!!! Like shutting down 3/4 of your head during heavy weather. Or leaning back on your water pressure in the showers so there would be more for us. I like this one;
Tell a young PFC that he'd better chow down at breakfast because the mess would be closed for the next meal and he would only get a bag lunch. Doing that when we knew we would be headed into heavy seas. He-he-he-he!!! :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Ever ride heavy seas in a LST? 21 ft draft makes it a puke boat. All this was on one TDY I did, from Guam to Diego Garcia. A smart a$$ marine thought that it would be funny to clog a main drain with rags. RULE 1; Never mess with the other guys equipment

[pickpocket]

A smart a$$ marine thought that it would be funny to clog a main drain with rags. RULE 1; Never mess with the other guys equipment

I went to the inlet end, at about 0630 after chow, wadded up a big pile of toilet paper, put it in and lit it on fire. Down the line it went!! Now that was funny

I'm sensing a tiny double-standard..hmm...

I spent the better part of a cat 3 typhoon on the USS Juneau, I think the worst we got were several 30-degree pitches.
The only thing worse was diving out of the well deck in the AAV's in choppy water... :barf:
Once one goes, they ALL go

[sparkysteve]

Stay home. Uncle Sam dosen't want you.

[Chaingunner]

+1 "Starship Troopers" by Heinlein. Easily one of the most influential books in my life. I read it once a year or so. Some of the stuff I read in there helped me out (mentally) in boot camp.

+1 Navy = constant danger.
As a Gunner's Mate, I'm constantly in danger of: Accidental or Unintentional discharges on firing lines and during weapons turnovers, falling ordnance, dangerous (read: White Phosphorous, Black Powder, and electrically primed) ordnance, hurting myself while lifting heavy loads (sure, one box of 50 9mm roudns is light...one CRATE of 2000 weighs around sixty or seventy pounds!), magazine sprinkler system glitches, and that's not to mention the other Navy standard hazards such as door/hatch/scuttle knife edges, fires, freezing water, nonskid decks, forklift operations, helo/harrier ops, transiting the flight deck or walkways at night while the ship is rolling...And all of these apply just as equally to the Coast Guard.

[1wildbill]

I DO NOT want to join the Marines or the Army, so those are out. I can't see risking my life, and more than likely getting shot and killed over something I dont agree with in the first place. However just to see what people would say, I added those as choices in the poll.

Well my young lad, all branches of the armed services have risks. Sounds like you are not up to it. If you don't believe in war, then don't try to be a warrior. (LEO = War on Crime, opposed to that one too?)

Thought about being a lawyer? They "fight" for things they don't believe in all the time just for the money, but don't risk their lives doing it.

Or maybe you could become a Scoutmaster.

I need to get a nice easy job like a Librarian? Come on now.... thats the most ignorant thing Ive ever heard.

Nope, your comments are the ignorant ones.

U.S. Army 1963-1972, VietNam 1970-1971--I didn't vote in your silly poll.

[Recon7]

Don't join the army, we don't need people like you.