Air Force pilot handguns - Page 3

airman · June 27, 2005, 02:43 PM

I do enjoy posts like this but, we all must rember that this is a public website and it is for all to view. Just becareful what you post becasuse some information posted may be information not for the public to know. Rember that we can have our strengths and weekness explotied. No examples needed there. Not trying to be a party pooper, but do realize the importance of security. Those who are in the military need to realize that some information they put forth maybe confidential or scecret. I must emphsize the fact that im not saying any of your are bad guys or terorist. last time i checked they still have accsess to the internet and have used information put forth to be used against us. Sorry bout the sad note post...
Airman

jimmy · June 27, 2005, 02:44 PM

This may be slightly OT, but FWIW I had a conversation about sidearms with a pilot who flew in Vietnam. While flying, he carried an S&W .38 Airweight in a shoulder holster. By the time he returned from a mission, the gun was wet with perspiration. To keep it from rusting, he unloaded it, washed it in water to remove the sweat, then sprayed it out with WD40 to remove the water, then wiped it clean, then reloaded it. He said this maintenance method worked.

netwizard20 · June 29, 2005, 03:50 AM

Active duty Air Force here. Currently deployed in supprt of Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom.

To answer the question on what is issued to pilots. Not all pilots are given a sidearm. It depends on the aircraft and the area. But if the situation calls for a sidearm to be issued, it will be an M9. The M11 (sig) is reserved Special Agents of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) and special forces (Combat Control and Para-Rescue). Also, if military personell are in an area that requires them to be armed then officers and top enlisted will carry an M9 all other will carry either a M16A2 or M4 Carbine. That rule is for Air Force only. I cant speak for Army or Marines.

As far as hollow point ammo. It is banned by the Law Of Armed Conflict, a result of the Geneva Conventions. LOAC says that no ammo will be used that will cause un-do pain and suffering.

As for what cops (MP/Security Forces) are qulified on.

M16A2
M4
Benelli 12guage (m1or2 i think)
M60
M9
M248 (5.56 version of M60)

The installation commander decides what is carried/used.

cas · June 29, 2005, 08:44 PM

" M248 (5.56 version of M60)"

It's an LMG, but it sure aint that.

srfl · June 30, 2005, 11:32 PM

"The M11 (sig) is reserved Special Agents of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) and special forces (Combat Control and Para-Rescue)."

I was in a rescue ANG unit before joining the AFRES. The PJ's at my old unit carried Beretta M9's....not M11's. Maybe some other AD/ANG/AFRES rescue/special tactics squadrons carried M11's?

Lone Star · July 1, 2005, 12:35 AM

Actually, there is no cut-and-dried answer to all of this. Some pararescue men in Alaska have been issued with S&W M29 .44 Magnums. I believe that happened after a bear was found attacking the crew of a downed 'plane, and the rescuers had no way to kill it.

I'm pretty sure that some squadrons buy pistols with unit funds and those become "official" sidearms.

Certainly, the basic answer is that they USUALLY carry the M9 Beretta. Most rules have exceptions and I wouldn't be astonished if this one did.

The M249 SAW is an FN design, not a down-sized M60 machinegun. I think the M60 is being replaced in US forces with the FN MAG/GPMG, but they call it something else. The M60 was never fully satisfactory.

Lone Star

MeekAndMild · July 1, 2005, 01:09 AM

I was in the Air Force until the mid 80's and I never saw an A2. All the ARs I saw were the old M-16s. All the pistols I saw were plain jane S&W .38's, no colts nor .357's. I knew several Viet Nam vets who'd used others, mostly 45's back in the 1960's. One fellow had been on base security duty in Viet Nam and used a jeep mounted M-60.

AF had a consistant rule about guns on base. You could bring your shotgun on base to the skeet range or bring your rifle to the woods on the back side of the base if you had a hunting permit, but if you brought a sidearm you had to take it to the security police station and sign it in to their storage locker. If you brought a shotgun or rifle you had to declare it and declare your destination and you were in big trouble if the skeet range was closed when you were trying to get in or if your hunting permit wasn't current.

Concerning exceptions I would suppose there are always exceptions, but if so they would have to be authorized by the local commander. But heads rolled if there was ever any problem. On our base there was a guy who died of an arrow wound during hunting season one year and all the on-base hunting permits were canceled.

ISP2605 · July 1, 2005, 07:39 AM

"The M249 SAW is an FN design, not a down-sized M60 machinegun. I think the M60 is being replaced in US forces with the FN MAG/GPMG, but they call it something else. The M60 was never fully satisfactory."

M-240.
The M-60 had its problems but it had a lot of years of service and saved many a behinds. It was a comforting sound to hear the old pig talking. You knew it was taking care of business. Hearing a couple of them at night laying down fire, one on each side of you a short distance away was something to live for.

June 27, 2005, 02:43 PM	#51
airman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: cali Posts: 118	Opsec I do enjoy posts like this but, we all must rember that this is a public website and it is for all to view. Just becareful what you post becasuse some information posted may be information not for the public to know. Rember that we can have our strengths and weekness explotied. No examples needed there. Not trying to be a party pooper, but do realize the importance of security. Those who are in the military need to realize that some information they put forth maybe confidential or scecret. I must emphsize the fact that im not saying any of your are bad guys or terorist. last time i checked they still have accsess to the internet and have used information put forth to be used against us. Sorry bout the sad note post... Airman

June 29, 2005, 03:50 AM	#53
netwizard20 Member Join Date: March 6, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 37	Active duty Air Force here. Currently deployed in supprt of Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom. To answer the question on what is issued to pilots. Not all pilots are given a sidearm. It depends on the aircraft and the area. But if the situation calls for a sidearm to be issued, it will be an M9. The M11 (sig) is reserved Special Agents of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) and special forces (Combat Control and Para-Rescue). Also, if military personell are in an area that requires them to be armed then officers and top enlisted will carry an M9 all other will carry either a M16A2 or M4 Carbine. That rule is for Air Force only. I cant speak for Army or Marines. As far as hollow point ammo. It is banned by the Law Of Armed Conflict, a result of the Geneva Conventions. LOAC says that no ammo will be used that will cause un-do pain and suffering. As for what cops (MP/Security Forces) are qulified on. M16A2 M4 Benelli 12guage (m1or2 i think) M60 M9 M248 (5.56 version of M60) The installation commander decides what is carried/used. Last edited by netwizard20; June 29, 2005 at 04:41 AM.

June 27, 2005, 02:44 PM	#52
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	This may be slightly OT, but FWIW I had a conversation about sidearms with a pilot who flew in Vietnam. While flying, he carried an S&W .38 Airweight in a shoulder holster. By the time he returned from a mission, the gun was wet with perspiration. To keep it from rusting, he unloaded it, washed it in water to remove the sweat, then sprayed it out with WD40 to remove the water, then wiped it clean, then reloaded it. He said this maintenance method worked.

June 29, 2005, 08:44 PM	#54
cas Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Posts: 123	" M248 (5.56 version of M60)" It's an LMG, but it sure aint that.

June 30, 2005, 11:32 PM	#55
srfl Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Posts: 48	"The M11 (sig) is reserved Special Agents of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) and special forces (Combat Control and Para-Rescue)." I was in a rescue ANG unit before joining the AFRES. The PJ's at my old unit carried Beretta M9's....not M11's. Maybe some other AD/ANG/AFRES rescue/special tactics squadrons carried M11's?

July 1, 2005, 12:35 AM	#56
Lone Star Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2002 Posts: 512	Actually, there is no cut-and-dried answer to all of this. Some pararescue men in Alaska have been issued with S&W M29 .44 Magnums. I believe that happened after a bear was found attacking the crew of a downed 'plane, and the rescuers had no way to kill it. I'm pretty sure that some squadrons buy pistols with unit funds and those become "official" sidearms. Certainly, the basic answer is that they USUALLY carry the M9 Beretta. Most rules have exceptions and I wouldn't be astonished if this one did. The M249 SAW is an FN design, not a down-sized M60 machinegun. I think the M60 is being replaced in US forces with the FN MAG/GPMG, but they call it something else. The M60 was never fully satisfactory. Lone Star

July 1, 2005, 01:09 AM	#57
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	I was in the Air Force until the mid 80's and I never saw an A2. All the ARs I saw were the old M-16s. All the pistols I saw were plain jane S&W .38's, no colts nor .357's. I knew several Viet Nam vets who'd used others, mostly 45's back in the 1960's. One fellow had been on base security duty in Viet Nam and used a jeep mounted M-60. AF had a consistant rule about guns on base. You could bring your shotgun on base to the skeet range or bring your rifle to the woods on the back side of the base if you had a hunting permit, but if you brought a sidearm you had to take it to the security police station and sign it in to their storage locker. If you brought a shotgun or rifle you had to declare it and declare your destination and you were in big trouble if the skeet range was closed when you were trying to get in or if your hunting permit wasn't current. Concerning exceptions I would suppose there are always exceptions, but if so they would have to be authorized by the local commander. But heads rolled if there was ever any problem. On our base there was a guy who died of an arrow wound during hunting season one year and all the on-base hunting permits were canceled.

July 1, 2005, 07:39 AM	#58
ISP2605 Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Posts: 954	"The M249 SAW is an FN design, not a down-sized M60 machinegun. I think the M60 is being replaced in US forces with the FN MAG/GPMG, but they call it something else. The M60 was never fully satisfactory." M-240. The M-60 had its problems but it had a lot of years of service and saved many a behinds. It was a comforting sound to hear the old pig talking. You knew it was taking care of business. Hearing a couple of them at night laying down fire, one on each side of you a short distance away was something to live for.