Riot defense senario

[tegemu]

Run!!!!!!

[Trip20]

For the record, I did not start the thread Jericho mentions. TheBluesMan took it upon himself to take a post of mine from an on going thread about hurricane Katrina and law enforcement (I think), and use it to start the discussion.

[Jericho9mm]

Hey Trip20 sorry I didnt mean to slam or offend you I was just comparing the reactions from the previous thread to this current one and I find it to be very interesting.

[Trip20]

Jericho - just so ya know I didn't take offense in the least. Sorry if my last post sounded as if I did.

The thread you mentioned is not one that I would have started as the picture was more for humor than to justify any sort of action. I can't find the original thread in which I posted the picture, but it was more in context with the discussion that was going on at the time.

That's the only reason I made clarification.

[RsqVet]

Glenn --

Great response!

Personally my truck is kinda like an escape capsule as it has a lot of tools and gear in it and believe me we woulod be loaded up and gone as a family --- yes one in a vehicle is vulnerable --- but not that vulnerable if you have a brain and know how to drive, a big truck makes it easier but is not essental. Anyone who choses to stay when exit is a good option for purely material items is a fool.

Orginize the neighborhood????? How will you account for your neighbors actions? Does that not seriously go down the road of inciting your own riot? YOU armend them, YOU told them of the threat --- then the shooting erupted. Who here wants to be responsible for the lead that one of their neighbors throws?

Seriously I pray this whole thread is a joke.

How many instances of house to house looting and burning are there in US history? Yes we have had riots, busnesses were looted, some burned and yes after natural disasters there has been looting, however the picture painted of returning to a pile of burned out rubble sounds awful melodramatic to me if we are talking about a residance --- they are 20 min away and you expect what your whole block will be burned? Even if you and your neighbors mount a good SWAT response your lead hose ant's no fire hose so if the block is burning you are screwed and now must evec with the riot there on your tail!

Do you not think that a lot of the suggestions for overt resistance would not make you a focal point for the rage of the rioters if it did come to that? In the end rioters will offten win out through greater number --- I can see it now --- the riot moving down the street causing moderate mayhem and damage to cars / yards and so forth, they come to a sign that says armed homeowner, a wise guy deciedes to try his luck, walks up pitching a fire bomb --- he gets droped, next thing the entire focus of the riot has become that one house, and sadly though you can all have fantasy time about how many you will drop I do not think you will win in the end likley your hose might be the only one compleatly destroyed.

No guys I think if you are at home and chose to stay there is a strong argument towards mantaining a low profile and only goign on the offensive if your hand is forced.

[Jericho9mm]

Orginize the neighborhood?????

Yeah, but in all honesty the best time to do it would be after a disaster not just for a riot. post katrina left the gulf region with out many basic needs and criminal authority was one of them. when reentering my area after the immediate threat is over would i hand out my own weapons for use by others? No, but i think most of us feel that way unless they were really good friends or family. so i would try in a maner to do the following:

Create a kind of "Super" Neighborhood Watch, in which there would be a meeting to decide how to proceed. With as many neighbors or heads of housholds as could be present at the meeting create watches each day so those who are coming and going belong there (you really underestimate the power of old people sitting in lawn chairs in their open garage) and to prevent any theft or property destruction that may occur.
The simple fact that a criminal knows people are watching will be deterent enough. These watches can slowly cruise up an down the street every hour or so observing people. Or if you live in a culdesac they could simply sit on a lawn out in the open on a corner or something. night and day. But the key here is to have open communication with your neighbors and if something does happen you can call the authorities with multiple witnesses. Plus this is why cops always support deterence to reaction (less paperwork).

If open carry is allowed then open carry, but the idea is to be as lawful as possible with out giving the criminals an edge.

[Doug.38PR]

Oh, give me a break. I won't like to lose my house but you are just posturing.

I would give my house a 1000 times over if I get my wife and kid to safety. Anybody who doesn't see that is an idiot, to be blunt.

Also, you did play the race card and posture. Tough if you don't buy it.

I'm a psychologist (prof) and I understand hidden motivations, Doug and for our readers, you have a consistent tendency not to evaluate the best outcome of situations but continually go for a gun based solution even if it is clearly not in your best interest. You need to work on this. I hate to be harsh but that's what I read. I see you wanting to be the hero that organizes the neighborhood against the 'poor' and 'oppressed'.

In your scenario, if I have 30 minutes to get out of the way of a major riot with unknown numbers and weaponery - while I do have significant firearms - I'm gone.

If I knew that fleeing was dangerous and I had sufficient time for a realistic defense - not a fantasy - I might like the Korean merchants defend my property. Your scenario is a get out of Dodge one - unless fleeing is more risky to my life.

Do you have children? Name for me one physical position that is worth a child. I went through a significant life threatener last year with my daughter. If you told me, I could gurantee her life by burning my house to the ground - give me the matches. If Satan told me to put you inside when it burned, I would have done that.

Now, I'm faced with a mob but I could get her and the wife to safety. NO, I'm going to stay there and fight it out for the couch and my computer. What pure stupidity.

BTW, you can backup your computer externally and off site. You can buy a new Dell for $399.

Hmm, name calling and psychoanalyzing "you really mean what I say you mean."
You started playing the race card, not me.
Perhaps you area well to do Bill Gates who could lose 10 houses 10 times over and not be affected by it but not everyone is that fortunate.
It's not a question of my family or my house. They all go together, they are all part of my life and theirs. Yes, family safety is a priority, but so is the roof over their head and the food on the table which contributes to their health and safety.

The rest of you who raise concern about legal and criminal charges: The major difference between what I am discussing in original post and what you fear is my senario is DEFENSIVE and what you are talking about is going on the OFFENSIVE. Big difference. Neighbors are gathering and fortifying a specific spot and DEFENDING it (and working with police when and if they come around to aid), not going out and around town looking for rioters to shoot down.

[Sulaco2]

Get in front of the crowd and chant "ImHoTep, ImHoTep".....Worked in "The Mummy".....

[Blackwater OPS]

I think people are still missing the point here. Ask anyone who has been in or near a riot if they think its a good idea to leave the house while the riot is occuring. I am saying I would stay home and defend it because I believe its safer, and as a secondary reason to protect my things. If I had equal chances either way I would stay home for that reason. No one wants to get killed over replaceable objects.

[Doug.38PR]

Get in front of the crowd and chant "ImHoTep, ImHoTep".....Worked in "The Mummy".....

LOL!!! Or just get in your car and plow through them....it also worked in "The Mummy"

I think people are still missing the point here. Ask anyone who has been in or near a riot if they think its a good idea to leave the house while the riot is occuring. I am saying I would stay home and defend it because I believe its safer, and as a secondary reason to protect my things. If I had equal chances either way I would stay home for that reason. No one wants to get killed over replaceable objects.

That's very true

[OuTcAsT]

In "theory" I agree that the best place to defend your family is in your home, I am not going to arm my neighborhood, nor consort with my neighbors about a defensive strategy. I will close and lock all doors, close curtains, assemble my weapons, and WAIT. As long as they stay outside, and away from me then they may riot to their hearts content. If they enter my home, or attempt to harm me, or my family, THEN I will defend them with NECESSARY force.

If you assemble a makeshift militia of your neighbors I would venture to guess that If LEOs show up, you will probably be taking a ride to the crossbar hotel and, not be around to defend anything.

Riots can be diffused, an Idiot on his roof with a rifle, or a band of neighbors armed to the teeth and on patrol is an invitation for SWAT to show up and let you see what a bad day in the neighborhood really is.

[Blackwater OPS]

an Idiot on his roof with a rifle, or a band of neighbors armed to the teeth and on patrol

Well then, I guess all those Korean shop owners who successfully defended their shops durring the 92' riots here, while everything was destroyed all around them, were complete idiots. If so, thats the kind of idiot I want to be.

[threegun]

I was in a riot here in Tampa in the mid 80's. A police officer placed a choke hold on a man and he died later in jail. The minority community errupted in violence despite this guys fighting police like a madman. Anyway as the rioters burned their ghetto, I drove to my grangparents house, which bordered the danger zone. My grandparents refused to leave and my mother was going to go, so I told her I would go in her place. My grandfather and I sat on their porch with my mini-14, shotgun, and pistol. Several neighbors also armed were sitting on thier porches. Riot ended no problemo.

Now I have a family including 2 boys. Now I have a better sense of reality, mortality, ect. I would run if it was an option. I hope that doesn't translate as cowardly because it isn't. If the option to run was not availible, I would prepare to get real nasty. I would setup some makeshift cover and eliminate any threats to my home and family. I wouldn't arm my neighbors except for my dad who is my neighbor and knows how to handle my weapons. My wife and 9 year old can kick some butt also.

My only suggestion is to remain mobile. Getting on the roof gives you visual superiority but you are also exposed. In my community the extra height gives little advantage. I would remain mobile on the ground. Then just use the appropriate weapon as the ranges change.

[GSD]

I would give them some lemonaide or water. I live about 25 miles from town, out in the country. That would be one hell of a walk to get here.

Hey, thats one of the reasons I moved out here, so I wouldn't have to deal with those kinds of scenerios.

[invention_45]

GSD: how far are you from Midland, and what are housing prices like there?

[CmGtSm]

My opinion has been, and always will be, to organize yourself and your neighbors - now. Don't wait for SHTF. Only having 20 to 30 minutes to figure out what to do is really short changing yourself when you, yours, and your neighbors have had years to organize and become an active community.

As I'm fond of saying - take Neighborhood Watch about 10 steps further and get organized now for whatever may happen in the future...don't wait.

It's your neighborhood, keep it. One person alone can't be a neighborhood.

[OneInTheChamber]

I believe there is a line that the looting/mob/riot scenario must deal with.

On one side is giving up all possessions, everything you've worked hard for. On the other side is losing what is not fixable (people, pets, etc.). You have to mix both; you can't just leave your life (your home); but you can't let go of real lives.

But, back to the line thing: There is a point where a riot, etc. becomes so out of hand that it is no longer safe to be traveling (remember the coca cola driver who got the **** beat out of him in the Rodney King riots?). When I can't get out, I'll bunker in. It makes no sense to be walking the streets doing patrols; but just bunker in. Don't leave your house, don't let anyone who shows malicious intent near it.

It's all about getting out alive.

[Bender711]

OK grab m40, load it up, have one person shine a light on the mob, fire a round over their head. If that dosent stop them start picking off the people that seem to be leading the volience. Get my neighbors to guard the streets and back yards. have my m4 loaded if they get to close.

[Doug.38PR]

My opinion has been, and always will be, to organize yourself and your neighbors - now. Don't wait for SHTF. Only having 20 to 30 minutes to figure out what to do is really short changing yourself when you, yours, and your neighbors have had years to organize and become an active community.

As I'm fond of saying - take Neighborhood Watch about 10 steps further and get organized now for whatever may happen in the future...don't wait.

It's your neighborhood, keep it. One person alone can't be a neighborhood.

GREAT point CMGTSM!!
Plan ahead. That way when the neighborhood Paul Revere on the phone calls you and and says "turn out your militia the rioters are coming!" everyone will know what to do.
It might also be a good idea, in addition to working with police when they arrive to keep in touch with the police 911 dispatcher during events to let the police know where y'all are foritfied and where you have neighbors stationed. Keep in touch with them.

You're right, no one person can be a neighborhood.

[OuTcAsT]

I would really like for some LEOs to weigh in on this, I don't know about the areas that some of you are in ( I'm in a Nashville TN suburb) but I can see it now..........

911 : What is your emergency ?
Joe Citizen: Yes, we hear the riots are getting close to our neighborhood and I just wanted you to know that our street is armed, and protecting ourselves, I am patrolling with my AR-15, along with Hank, Dale and Boomhower, we have shut off the cul-de-sac with our SUVs, and have Billy-Ray-Joe-Bob on the roof with a sniper rifle, just want to let you LE officers know we are trying to help out.

911: Please hold sir (sounds of SWAT team being dispatched)

You get the Idea !
I cannot believe that anyone on this forum who professes to be a responsible firearm owner would even think that you can just form a "Neighborhood Posse" and expect LE to think "Hey thats great, they are defending themselves".

It may fly where you live, but would likely wind up in a lot of arrests here.

[Blackwater OPS]

<<<leo

[OuTcAsT]

OK Blackwater, so are you telling me (your feelings aside) that your Chief/Commissioner/whatever... is going to endorse armed citizens "patrolling" or "Locking Down" a neighborhood.

A CCW holder would be brandishing Here (with a Handgun) But walking down the street with a locked and loaded AR would assure you a ride in the BACK of a black and white.

[SBrocker8]

Open carry is perfectly legal where I am. Then again, riots are pretty much never going to happen here unless some pretty messed up things happen...

Open carry is also perfectly legal in many other places, BTW.

[OuTcAsT]

You are correct,open carry is legal in many states, it is legal here for a CCW holder HOWEVER.... This only applies to HANDGUNS, not Rifles or Shotguns.

This would fall under the "intent to go armed" catagory.

In other words, walking around, or taking up a position of defense OUTSIDE your home is considered "looking for a fight".

Unless I am mistaken, this kind of action would also put you in the "premeditation" catagory. if you shoot someone (or several someones) after walking around armed for a spell could be spinned by a first year asst. DA as a murder looking for a victim.

I am not saying I disagree with wanting to protect what is mine, and using lethal force if necessary. Merely pointing out that the "Neighborhood Watch' with weapons is likely Illegal. If it were not then I would guess that more gang and drug infested urban neighborhoods would be doing it. Heck, if it were legal we could save our cities Billions of tax dollars because law enforcement would be moot.

Further, I will challenge any of you who live in urban, or suburban areas to load your favorite rifle, chuck it on your shoulder, and do a patrol thru your neighborhood, (be sure you call and tell your local PD you are doing it to help them out) and post your results.

[Doug.38PR]

Outcast,
The area is having a major riot. The police are tied up with that. Which is why the neighborhood men are setting up a defense because the police can't come. (See original post)
If they can send the swat team then they can send it to protect the neighborhood from rioters.