Mouse guns - .380 vs. .32

[lunger]

The new SW Bodyguard 2.0 380 is soft shooting . Much less than the LCP. Still small enough for pocket carry.

[Nathan]

thanks, any more P32 first hand experience?

I do. What can I tell you?

[Outpost75]

Of you guys who have Keltec P32s and claim there are no issues with CIP-Euro 73-grain+.ammo, how many of you have actually put more than 1000 rounds of Hirtenberg, S-B, Geco, RWS, Lapua, Sako, real Swedish Norma or real made in Italy Fiocchi through them?

[Bill DeShivs]

Most people will never put 1000 rounds of anything through a pocket pistol.
When the P32 first came out, a fellow modded one to use a very high powered round based on the .30 carbine cartridge. It seemed to hold up well.
The P32 has an aluminum frame like many lightweight pistols. That frame is mounted in a plastic grip frame. It's a locked breech design that will hold up as well as any alloy framed gun.

[Outpost75]

Most civilian users won't put 1000 rounds through a pocket pistol, but if you carry one UC as deep cover, train and must qualify with one, 600 rounds annually is normal. I shot to destruction an original Beretta Tomcat AND the heavy slide 3032 INOX they replaced it with. No cigar.

[Pistolay]

Originally Posted by simonrichter

thanks, any more P32 first hand experience?

I have two of them. They're good pistols for what they are. Not high mileage guns, and not high build quality, but reliable. If you shoot them enough to get used to the miniscule sights, they're pretty good out to about 10 yards at least. I find the hotter European ammo to be a bit much for my arthritic hands, but Federal American Eagle is pleasant to shoot.

I use mine for NPE carry, and I have two so I can spread out the round count.

I also have a Fort Smith Walther PPK in .32, and that's a sweet gun.

[Bill DeShivs]

The Beretta 3032 Tomcat is not a very well thought-out design. It started out as a .22 short/.25 acp gun, morphed to a .22LR gun (that doesn't work very well) and ended up a .32 acp pistol.

BTW the .25 and .22 short models are great guns.

[Outpost75]

FYI these days if I want a dependable low profile gun which does not scream "cop!" it is a 1934 or 1935 Beretta. Old school which is well proven beats the new micropistols.

[Ricklin]

Have plenty of "better" choices for concealed carry, however.
I love my 03 Colt old JMB got it right, quite concealable thanks to being thin and flat. I would pack it if I needed to. I can sure see the bones of the 1911 in it.

[ammo.crafter]

Sig P365 .380 is accurate and easy to handle. An excellent design and function.

I just gave my daughter my 1941 Walther PP in 7.65. At 83 years old, it still functions without any FTF or FTE.

There are many light weight autos out there. The best way to decide is to fire as many as you can.

[44 AMP]

Mauser HSc. I have a couple, one a .32 (nazi marked) and the other a .380 (post war gun). Compared to the modern micro compacts, they are freaking bricks.

On the other hand, recoil is about nil, and if the mousegun rounds don't stop an attacker, the ALL STEEL pistol as an impact weapon, just might!

[Ricklin]

That is one area where the plastic fantastic just don't do the job. Heck if the magazine is not installed I don't think I could use my G19 that way.

[fisherman66]

Had a LCP. It was fine, but the rudimentary sights were slow and ammo not inexpensive. I switched to a Kahr PM9. It’s not much of a weight penalty and pocket carry is easy. 9mm Luger is both easier to find and less expensive. I do not find recoil a problem. I have a FEG (Ppk clone) in 9 Mak and I hate to shoot it. Recoil is painful.

[Ricklin]

If that PPK clone you mention is the old FEG PA63 a shooting glove is the best medicine. The PA63 is rather hard on the web of your hand, that's my experience anyway. A glove is really helpful for the range.
I remember when i first purchased my PA63, Century arms I think, they claimed the pistols came from the STASI. It is an OK carry piece, it was for me until I could afford better. Hornaday makes good SD ammo in 9 X 18 MAK.

[fisherman66]

If that PPK clone you mention is the old FEG PA63 a shooting glove is the best medicine. The PA63 is rather hard on the web of your hand, that's my experience anyway. A glove is really helpful for the range.

It is indeed. Nasty recoil. It didn’t help that with the gun came several packs of Buffalo Bore +P ammo. I didn’t know it at the time, but that gun is prone to frame cracking.

I enjoy shooting 44 mag.

[jstert]

my keltec p32 is an excellent pistol: reliable, relatively easy to shoot, handy. i have tried many 380acp pocket-sized pistols. they are too uncomfortable to shoot, therefore difficult for me to get sufficient practice.

what about a zastava m70 32acp pistol?

[PzGren]

Based on recommendations of two friends I had bought a Keltec P32 20-some years ago and shot a few boxes of ammo through it. I had experienced frequent failure to feed with three different brands of ammo. My friends then also shot their Keltecs some more and also had FTFs.
My sons and I have Ruger LCPs in .380 ACP and they all work reliably and are accurate enough to shoot falling plates at 15 yards. I do not find them to kick hard at all.

I only carry it in the house and yard and have the belt clip instead of a holster on it and really like that.

[JimCunn]

I pocket carry a Browning Compact 1911-380/22 Convertible.

[Hellcat1]

Originally Posted by JimCunn

I pocket carry a Browning Compact 1911-380/22 Convertible.

If I didn't need a RDS on my carry gun, I'd likely be carrying my Browning 1911-380 as well. I love that little pistol!


Frank

[JohnMoses]

I bought my first P32 used, It was a gen 1 model that had obviously been carried, but who knows how much it was shot.I put a couple hundred euro fmj rounds though it, mostly S&B but some Italian fiocci. I didn't keep track of those, but I did keep track of the 1000+ handloads with berry billets and a max charge of red dot. (each charge weighed). One of my shooting buddies was shooting it when it broke. This guy could break an anvil. I had shot the little gun to death. I sent it back to Kel tec and they replaced every component except the slide and barrel. They moved the serial number to the new frame.
It's in my pocket now, just like every other day.

[chaim]

I have had a Ruger LCP for quite some time for very occasional pocket carry (I usually IWB a more substantial gun). I never liked it. For a year or so, I've been thinking about replacing it with a Kel Tec P32. Both are marginally effective as self-defense rounds, both are best with FMJ, so despite a slight power advantage for the .380, I felt the extra round and lighter recoil (for more practice and quicker follow up shots) gives the advantage to the .32.

A recent experience where I almost had to draw on a group (8 guys surrounding me and asking for my money and phone, one claiming to have a Ruger) that I talked and walked my way out of has me deciding against both. I had a 6 round .38spl (Taurus 856 Defender) and when I thought I'd actually need my gun, I was very unhappy with both the capacity and the round. I want a more powerful gun for my occasional pocket gun (I'll probably be getting a Kahr PM9 or CM9 if I decide I need something smaller than my SIG P365 with a 10 round mag), and a more substantial gun the rest of the time (more power and/or more capacity).

[jstert]

keltec p32 is handy, reliable, accurate, potent. it is comfortable enough to shoot for sufficient practice. any firearm on your person is better than none. i most heartily endorse it.

[orionengnr]

I have pocket carried a Kahr PM9 for about 15 years. My wrists are somewhat arthritic and don't handle recoil as they once did. The PM9 isn't bad, but I carry it with +P, which barks a bit.

A a hedge against old age I have, over the years, added an LCP, a Rem RM-380 and a Kahr CW380. The Kahr is the softest shooter, and will likely replace the PM9 one day. The LCP is the smallest and (being the Custom variant) has larger sights and a nicer trigger.

Also recently picked up a P-32 (first gen) and put a box through it. Being as light as it is, it's about as bark-ey as the LCP or the PM9.

If I were to only keep one, it would be a tough choice. Fortunately, I am not faced with that choice.

Point is, there a number of good options out there. Have a look around and see if you can find any of the above out your way. Don't know what import restriction you might have, or how your laws work.

But please, let us know how it turns out.

[Webleymkv]

The primary advantage to .380 Auto over .32 Auto, and also the reason that I think .380 has become more popular in the U.S. as opposed to Europe, is that .380 can perform significantly better with expanding bullets than .32 can. .32 Auto simply doesn't have enough power to get both reliable expansion and adequate penetration with a JHP bullet. Also, because of its semi-rimmed design, .32 Auto pistols have been known to have issues with rim-lock when loaded with JHP ammunition which is typically loaded to a shorter OAL than typical FMJ (though I've shot a good amount of both JHP and Lehigh XTreme Defender through various .32's and have never had an instance of rim-lock).

That being said, JHP's are really only a good idea in a .380 with very careful ammo selection and, ideally, a longer barrel. There are a very few .380 JHP loadings which seem to perform "ok" the best of which is probably Hornady's 90 gr Critical Defense as it's the only one that seems to be able to expand reliably and penetrate acceptably, though not ideally, from the short barrels found in most of the popular "micro" .380's like Ruger's LCP, Kel-Tec's P3AT, S&W's Bodyguard and the like. Others like Federal Hydra-Shok and Speer Gold Dot seem to do ok if shot from longer barrels and/or if heavy clothing isn't a factor. Still more, however, suffer from the same problems that .32 Auto JHP loadings do. It isn't uncommon advice to load a .380 with FMJ, Hardcast, or other non-expanding bullets to ensure adequate penetration and that advice isn't necessarily without merit.

If JHP or other expanding bullets are taken out of the equation, then I think there's probably a much stronger case for .32 Auto. Non-expanding bullets will give more than adequate penetration in both calibers but the .32 can be had in slightly smaller and lighter guns, can have slightly greater magazine capacity in similarly sized guns, and has significantly less recoil in similarly sized guns.

I currently own a Kel-Tec P3AT which I bought used for a very, very reasonable price. While the gun is certainly very easy to conceal and is also surprisingly reliable and accurate, it's a vicious little gun to shoot even with run-of-the-mill 95 gr FMJ (I think the last time I shot it I used Remington-UMC). That little pocket .380 is easily the most unpleasant to shoot gun that I own and that is even when compared to small-frame revolvers in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum revolvers, 10mm semi-autos, .357 Sig semi-autos and subcompact .40 S&W's. I sometimes regret not paying the $50 more it would have cost me to buy the Kel-Tec P32 that was next to it in the case.

[Ricklin]

The milsurp fans might appreciate something a touch different, but in the same ballpark.
9 X 18 Makarov was the com block equivalent some say more some say less, I say it's about the same as .380. Easy to load plated for plinking ammo, Berry's has the bullets, Hornaday critical defense is also available in 9 X 18.
Easy to trim regular 9mm cases down one MM to make Makarov cases i use a black magic marker around the primer so I don't cross them up.
Both the PA63 and the CZ82 can do OK CC duty. I contend the CZ82 has the best double action trigger of any military sidearm made. It really is good and an easy bottom feeder to shoot well.