Where do the American people really stand on gun control?

[Geezerbiker]

Every time people go into an ammo buying panic, it makes me think that the American people don't want gun control or they wouldn't be buying so much ammo. I suppose my logic could be flawed but it would take a lot to convince me that I'm wrong...

Tony

[AlongCameJones]

Last November, the American gun/ammo buying craze just didn't jibe with election results. How could so many gun buyers vote for Joe? The arithmetic and logic doesn't seem like it's there. It had to have been a big Democratic voting fraud. America is now being run by a fake Congress and a fake Presidency.

Gun buyers just don't vote Demo.

The evidence of American gun popularity overwhelmingly shows Trump and the GOP was cheated in the fixed election. It gets no more damning than that.


-two-time Trump voter here

[Moonglum]

You would just about have to write a book to effectively cover this topic. Here are just a few observations.

1. Republicans don't support your right to keep and bear arms any more than Democrats do. Paul Ryan couldn't manage to get National Repricocity through a Republican majority Congress (House and Senate) and to the desk of a nominally republican President in two years.,

Remember "Take the guns first then due process." from the guy who directed the AFT to retroactively declare bump stocks machine guns?

Speaking of bumpstocks, how many people on this forum that's supposedly a discussion group for Second Amendment advocates had no problem with that directive because it didn't affect them?

How many people on this forum that's supposedly a discussion group for Second Amendment advocates don't support Constituional Carry because you can't have just anybody walking around with a gun?

How many people on this forum that's supposedly a discussion group for Second Amendment advocates fully support universal background checks and ad extralegal conditions to any private firearms sale they conduct?

Ronaldus Magnus signed The Mulford Act and supported the Clinton AWB.

Nixon fully supported a national ban on handguns.

Dan Crenshaw supports red flag laws.

Bottom line, Republicans don't support the RKBA.

the majority of the voting public don't even understand gun laws or how guns work. Show them an M16 and an AR15 they won't know the difference or care.

Less than 5% of Americans have CHPs I would bet less than half of them actually carry.

I would say the majority of the gun owning public couldn't care less what laws are passed as long as their duck gun, deer gun and maybe a .38 for "home defense" aren't banned.

I won't be here but I expect my great grandkids will live in an America where citizens aren't permitted to own firearms.

[Double Naught Spy]

Adding to Moonglum's examples, ...

How many people on this forum think CCW permitees should have to take mandatory classes?
How many people on this forum think the 2nd amendment should not apply to folks with mental handicaps?

Pro gun President Reagan signed the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. He also supported the 1993 Brady Bill and 1994 Assault Weapon Ban.
Pro gun President Trump (remember all the great things people thought he was going to do for us?) supported and endorsed the banning of bump stocks.
Pro gun Trump wasn't against banning suppressors.

Yes, AlongCameJones, a lot of Democrats do buy guns. Where you got the notion that they don't is beyond me.

[Moonglum]

To add to what I said above, even Lauren Boebert Boebert requires any server who works in her restaurant to complete a Colorado approved concealed handgun permit class before Open Carrying on the clock.

Colorado law has no such requirement

[gaseousclay]

Yes, AlongCameJones, a lot of Democrats do buy guns. Where you got the notion that they don't is beyond me.

Yep. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the new gun buyers we saw in the last year were likely those that don't vote, or possible those that voted D but bought guns in a panic. My brother and his wife are Conservatives but his wife doesn't like guns. Just because someone leans in a certain political direction doesn't mean they don't support gun ownership.

[shafter]

Most Americans live pay check to paycheck. This means two things to me. First, they are too busy seeking pleasure to really focus on the issues at hand. Second, they are too busy stressing about how to pay for their overindulgent lifestyle that they are too busy to focus on the issues at hand, including gun control.

[AlongCameJones]

When people or their loved ones become victims of violent crimes, or feel they are threatened by violent crime, do they clamor for more gun control or more gun rights?

I should hope those people who went out and bought guns because of riot fears, the mass shooting scare or whatever, gave some thought about protecting those guns from govt. take-away over the future.

Actually, the Libertarians, by far, are the most pro-gun political party but good luck in having them take Washington over. It just seems that in modern times the GOP isn't nearly as great a threat to gun rights as the Demos. I can't vote Libertarian because that's like taking a vote from the GOP and giving it to the Demos. The GOP is the lesser of two evils.

I never knew Nixon was anti-handgun. My grandfather was pro-gun-rights and twice a Nixon voter. The Red states tend to lean pro-gun rights and also lean GOP and conservative. Most CC states are Red on the map. I get these notions about the GOP and gun rights by studying map colors. Probably most American gun owners/voters and especially those in Red areas perceive the conservatives or Republicans as their friend. I perceive the GOP, though not perfect, as less of a threat to the 2nd A anyway.

[gaseousclay]

When people or their loved ones become victims of violent crimes, or feel they are threatened by violent crime, do they clamor for more gun control or more gun rights?

I'd say it's a bit of both. The idealists think that adding more gun control will erase crime. The realists understands that crime will happen regardless and want to keep our gun rights.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Moonglum

the majority of the voting public don't even understand gun laws or how guns work.

This stands out as an accurate assessment of the american political landscape.

Originally Posted by Moonglum

1. Republicans don't support your right to keep and bear arms any more than Democrats do. Paul Ryan couldn't manage to get National Repricocity through a Republican majority Congress (House and Senate) and to the desk of a nominally republican President in two years.,

Your opening sentence is incorrect and not supported by the following text.

As Bart Roberts noted a couple of years ago,

Some Republicans do support gun control. It has bipartisan support. The thing is, gun rights used to have bipartisan support as well. That’s no longer true at the national level. The Democratic party is putting forth candidates well to the left of Obama on guns. And not one or two - ALL of them.

Paul Ryan's failure to secure a legislative victory isn't the sort of affirmative attack on the right on which Sen. Feinstein has made a career and on which national level dems agree. Examples of republican presidents a half century ago, when John Dingle was a face of 2d Am. right in the House, highlight the current reality.

Congressionally, in 1994 each party had some outliers voting contrary to pattern for and against the 1994 AWB. A quarter century later, the continued legal recognition of the right rests in part on Sup Court justices recognizing the 2d Am and conceding that Heller was correctly decided, and Senate dems are conspicuous in their opposition to that effort.

The insinuation that at a national level the parties are the same on this issue is false.

If you've local officeholders that depart from the national pattern, that's outstanding.

[gbclarkson]

Last numbers I saw were 55% against gun control, 30% for and 25% undecided IIRC.

110% of Americans responded to this poll.

CNN reports poll results heavily in favor of gun control measures. Point is, and many have alluded to this, there is no comprehensive or accurate gun control poll out there. Those, be they far/middle-right/left, that conduct their surveys tend to connect with those of similar beliefs and thus confirm their own paradigm using incomplete data; or... play with their conclusions to suit the attitudes of their paying audience. No reported "poll" is truly trustworthy.

Regional needs also contribute to different surveys. Citizens in rural Wyoming have different firearms needs than citizens in suburban Chicago. Different areas with different needs can, and should, have differing laws to suit the needs of the local area. Regional polls will reflect regional needs and beliefs.

Asking if someone believes in gun control is too simplistic. Aside from the jokes, what exactly does gun control look like? A total ban? Only assault rifles? Limited-capacity magazines? Universal background checks? Mandatory training classes?The blanket question needs to be parsed.

I think that we all believe in some level of gun control. Disagree? Look at the list of arrestees in your local paper and read descriptions of their crimes. Ask, does that dude (or dudette) deserve the same access to firearms that I am afforded.

[ghbucky]

Some Republicans do support gun control. It has bipartisan support. The thing is, gun rights used to have bipartisan support as well. That’s no longer true at the national level.

This statement is 100% verifiably false.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/polit...ats/index.html

[zukiphile]

This statement is 100% verifiably false.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/polit...ats/index.html

I'd encourage a review of that CNN piece. Manchin's issue isn't whether additional restrictions should be imposed, but whether the full load of additional restrictions should be imposed now. It's true that Manchin is a transitional figure at odds with his party on several issues that weren't large stories when Roberts made that observation.

On the other hand, it was McConnell who refused to give Feinstein's evergreen firearm restriction proposal a vote following Sandyhook.

That should not save repubs from criticism on civil liberties issues where they earn it. Crenshaw is wrong on RFLs. My governor, Mike DeWine, is wrong on those and was opposed with such great vigor by repubs in the state legislature that he may have ended his political career.
The details on these issues matter. Waving those details aside with a sense that one party is no worse or better on the issue is an obfuscation. In terms of Sup Ct nominees, those differences may be profound.

Let's give Sen. Manchin unicorn status. That still doesn't leave the parties indistinguishable on 2d Am. issues.

If protecting the terms of the 2d Am. is a significant issue for you, I'd encourage an examination of the Heller vote and who nominated the respective justices. The result isn't monochromatic; Souter spent a career disappointing the people who backed him for that spot. The impact of electoral trends on the direction of the Sup Ct are there to be seen, unless one would prefer no to see them.

[ghbucky]

Manchin is dancing a tight rope, imho. He knows it would be political suicide to vote for any gun control measures in WV, so he always says that whatever is being proposed is too far.

He'll never support any GC legislation, but whatever is proposed is too much.

[zukiphile]

Manchin is dancing a tight rope, imho. He knows it would be political suicide to vote for any gun control measures in WV, so he always says that whatever is being proposed is too far.

I think you've accurately located the geographical foundation for his peculiar position within the Senate. He is liked for his personality within a state that might not be a safe seat for many other democrat senators, and he is neither free to be a good team player for his party, not is he free to burn bridges within his caucus. It's a situation that Phil Graham and Richard Shelby eventually resolved with a party switch. Jim Jeffords switched the other way, though formally he was an independent.

Without regard for the reason for a switch, it seems to be a transformation only undertaken by the most confident of officeholders.

[Tom Servo]

He'll never support any GC legislation, but whatever is proposed is too much.

I wouldn't assume that. He got cozy with Pat Toomey back in 2013 and tried to draft a "compromise" amendment to get background checks passed.

He's stated he's not running for re-election, so I'd watch him very carefully on this issue.

[AlongCameJones]

The reason I don't believe in background checks is because those enforce the Gun Control Act of 1968 which I don't believe in. Also I don't believe that American citizens should have to pay fees to enjoy rights under the Bill of Rights. I don't believe one innocent life was ever saved on account of a single background check. I believe many American citizens are wrongfully denied under NICS

[zukiphile]

Perhaps the most important variable in measuring attitudes toward restriction or protection of the right is when the measurement is taken. Like asking the value of a stock, the question is unanswerable without knowing when the stock had a specific value. In November of 2008 or March of 2020, you might find the low values for that stock.

Before the Vegas shooting, the public conversation had calmed to the point that a friendlier policy toward suppressors seemed within reach. After the Vegas shooting, the emotional tumult on which suppressor restrictions depend for policy support were quite high. Similarly, in the immediate wake of Sandy Hook and MSD school murders, you'd find the low values for public support of the right.

Nothing is "braver" than a legislator with the wind at his back, and part of the management if this issue is seeing the wind blow the right way. Even your favorite officeholder can fold if he sees a big enough storm coming.

Public support shouldn't have any influence on whether we can exercise a right, but keeping it out of the legislative process when its support is low can minimize the damage the political process can inflict on the right. McConnell's victory in 2012 was in keeping anything on this subject from coming to the floor of the senate. He couldn't have done that if he were in the minority.

[Onward Allusion]

Politicians are all about throwing out distractions. There are few true believers. Gun Control, Abortion, Red -vs- Blue...etc...are all distractions that smoke screen while they line their own pockets. Yeah, call me cynical.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Ammo shortage shows no sign of improving: Smith & Wesson

Gun sales skyrocket as crime surges in cities across US

CRIME SURGES Across AMERICA. Ammunition inventories that were depleted during the pandemic are showing no sign of improving, according to Smith & Wesson Brands CEO Mark Smith.

Look at the crime surge numbers in the video. You can blame it on the Virus, but people are STILL buying protection. Domestic Terrorism and de funding Police have hit America Hard. And Americans know it. And Rightly so.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...g-smith-wesson

[101combatvet]

We don't have a gun problem; we have a stupid people problem.

[Geezerbiker]

We always have and always will have a stupid people problem but unfortunately the laws have been changed to protect the stupid. We were better off as a society when when the stupid were allowed to self eliminate...

Tony

[Moonglum]

Originally Posted by 101combatvet

We don't have a gun problem; we have a stupid people problem.

You're not wrong

[Aguila Blanca]

We typically allow for some topic drift, but this thread is in General Discussion, not Law & Civil Rights. The topic is gun control, so please keep comments on topic.

[5whiskey]

We typically allow for some topic drift, but this thread is in General Discussion, not Law & Civil Rights. The topic is gun control, so please keep comments on topic.

Out of respect for this, I will not correct several glaring inaccuracies in a previous post (even though I agree with much of the post... but you don’t have to play loose and fast with facts to drive the point home).

As many have said, where Americans stand on gun control is not the firm bedrock of principle which should be afforded all constitutional rights. It’s the shifting sands of the current news cycle and politicians who demand that the nation “do something” to stop murder (even though murder is already illegal nationwide). I think during times of quiet news cycles the majority of America generally supports no new gun control. Poll everyone after a high school is shot up by a monster (****whom in most cases is well known by law enforcement, up to and including the FBI, oftentimes having failed to take action even though numerous reports demonstrated a concern the suspect would eventually do... well exactly what they did ****), and about half or sometimes slightly over believe we should “do something.” It’s compassion based, or the desire to appear compassionate. To display feelings of empathy, dread, horror, and to display compassion after a terrible mass shooting are actually quite desirable traits and demonstrates that one is kind and human. The cold hard truth, though, is that decision making based on “feelings” is a usually a giant mistake.