IMR 4064 Failure to Ignite - Page 2

hdbiker · March 18, 2021, 10:09 AM

IMR 4064 is my go to powder for all my center fire rifles, 223, 243, 270, 30-30, 308, 30-06. Works great in all and never had that happen. I have has issues with Federal primers once. hdbiker

Bart B. · March 18, 2021, 10:34 AM

I once fired about 20 rounds of 7.62 NATO ammo without powder in a Garand.

No bullets stuck in the chamber throat, they barely moved in the case neck.

**Unclenick** · March 18, 2021, 01:03 PM

4064 is a relatively easy powder to ignite, but the general rule of thumb with most rifle powders is to load to at least 70% of volume at the low end, and under no conditions load under 60% full because pressure spikes can occur.

So my first thought is your primers are under-pressurizing the case for the purpose of sustaining ignition. For this reason, it is not uncommon for a magnum primer to work better with low case fill, and then for a standard primer to work better (as judged by lowest velocity SD) when the case is full or nearly full.

However, you said you had ignition failure at 75% fill. That can be erratic with a standard primer in a case the size of yours, but failure to ignite at that fill level is odd and start to steer me toward a contamination issue.

Try what Otto suggested, and load a round whose case you can fill with the powder without going overpressure. If that fails, see if you can get a capful of 4064 from a friend who uses it and do a visual comparison. Look for your jug to have an oily gloss on it. That's an early breakdown symptom.

Finally, put enough for several rounds in a sealed (tape works) container with as much desiccant as you can fit in and try it again a month later. (Note that desiccating raises burn rate, so test with maybe a 60% full charge to start).

Chipperman · March 20, 2021, 06:18 PM

OK so I measured how much 4064 I could cram into an empty case. It held 57.9 grains compressed all the way to the mouth. Doing the math that means my lowest load was at 59% of total compressed capacity. You would never be able to seat a bullet with that load of 57.9 though.

I'll try to go out on Monday with some 308 loads. I also picked up another jug of 4064 which I will try to load up and see if I fare better with that.

Chipperman · March 22, 2021, 02:00 PM

OK so I just got back from the range. I had loaded some 7.5x53.5 with the original jug of 4064, the new jug of 4064 and more 4895. I also loaded some 308 with the same.

All rounds functioned normally.

So I guess the good news is that the original jug of 4064 is not bad, but I still don't have an explanation for the earlier problems apart from the temperature. Today was nice, almost 60 degrees.

**Unclenick** · March 23, 2021, 01:12 PM

The only cold-related thing I can think of that might cause the problem is grease in the rifle stiffening and slowing the firing pin way down. Especially with high primers, that can cause very weak ignition.

Chipperman · March 24, 2021, 10:32 AM

That would not explain why the rounds loaded with 4895 worked, though.
Odd

Reloader270 · March 25, 2021, 11:02 AM

I did not read whether the firing pin strike was light or else. If you resize the case shoulders too far back, it could cause some head space problems - case moving forward in the chamber when the firing pin strike resulting in no bang. Federal primers are known to ignite more easily than other primers. Somehow there is a mechanical failure in the reload.

March 18, 2021, 01:03 PM	#28
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,138	4064 is a relatively easy powder to ignite, but the general rule of thumb with most rifle powders is to load to at least 70% of volume at the low end, and under no conditions load under 60% full because pressure spikes can occur. So my first thought is your primers are under-pressurizing the case for the purpose of sustaining ignition. For this reason, it is not uncommon for a magnum primer to work better with low case fill, and then for a standard primer to work better (as judged by lowest velocity SD) when the case is full or nearly full. However, you said you had ignition failure at 75% fill. That can be erratic with a standard primer in a case the size of yours, but failure to ignite at that fill level is odd and start to steer me toward a contamination issue. Try what Otto suggested, and load a round whose case you can fill with the powder without going overpressure. If that fails, see if you can get a capful of 4064 from a friend who uses it and do a visual comparison. Look for your jug to have an oily gloss on it. That's an early breakdown symptom. Finally, put enough for several rounds in a sealed (tape works) container with as much desiccant as you can fit in and try it again a month later. (Note that desiccating raises burn rate, so test with maybe a 60% full charge to start). __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 23, 2021, 01:12 PM	#31
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,138	The only cold-related thing I can think of that might cause the problem is grease in the rifle stiffening and slowing the firing pin way down. Especially with high primers, that can cause very weak ignition. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2021, 10:09 AM	#26
hdbiker Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Posts: 297	IMR 4064 is my go to powder for all my center fire rifles, 223, 243, 270, 30-30, 308, 30-06. Works great in all and never had that happen. I have has issues with Federal primers once. hdbiker

March 18, 2021, 10:34 AM	#27
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I once fired about 20 rounds of 7.62 NATO ammo without powder in a Garand. No bullets stuck in the chamber throat, they barely moved in the case neck.

March 20, 2021, 06:18 PM	#29
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	OK so I measured how much 4064 I could cram into an empty case. It held 57.9 grains compressed all the way to the mouth. Doing the math that means my lowest load was at 59% of total compressed capacity. You would never be able to seat a bullet with that load of 57.9 though. I'll try to go out on Monday with some 308 loads. I also picked up another jug of 4064 which I will try to load up and see if I fare better with that.

March 22, 2021, 02:00 PM	#30
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	OK so I just got back from the range. I had loaded some 7.5x53.5 with the original jug of 4064, the new jug of 4064 and more 4895. I also loaded some 308 with the same. All rounds functioned normally. So I guess the good news is that the original jug of 4064 is not bad, but I still don't have an explanation for the earlier problems apart from the temperature. Today was nice, almost 60 degrees.

March 24, 2021, 10:32 AM	#32
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	That would not explain why the rounds loaded with 4895 worked, though. Odd

March 25, 2021, 11:02 AM	#33
Reloader270 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2015 Location: South Africa Posts: 138	I did not read whether the firing pin strike was light or else. If you resize the case shoulders too far back, it could cause some head space problems - case moving forward in the chamber when the firing pin strike resulting in no bang. Federal primers are known to ignite more easily than other primers. Somehow there is a mechanical failure in the reload.