Can "plonked" rounds become "Unplonked"?

[Marco Califo]

Oh, I think I get it now:
>> You passed the plunk test with the firearm disassembled.
>> Did you then try to cycle and chamber (with the gun reassembled)?
You could pass the plunk test, but not be able to chamber (and cycle) the exact same cartridge. This would happen if you drop the round in the barrel and it looks normal, but if it is too long, you may not notice it sticking up higher than it should. Perhaps by a tiny amount. Then reassemble the gun, and the long length then could cause issues.

[robhic]

"I generally plonk "
Actually you are generally plunking. You keep misspelling it. Several posters have corrected you.

I've seen it spelled both ways - 'plOnk and plUnk. Tomato - tomatoe. And in this (reloading) context, was there any question as to my reference?

[robhic]

Oh, I think I get it now:
>> You passed the plunk test with the firearm disassembled.
>> Did you then try to cycle and chamber (with the gun reassembled)?
You could pass the plunk test, but not be able to chamber (and cycle) the exact same cartridge. This would happen if you drop the round in the barrel and it looks normal, but if it is too long, you may not notice it sticking up higher than it should. Perhaps by a tiny amount. Then reassemble the gun, and the long length then could cause issues.

After using the disassembled barrel for the plunk test, I did NOT hand-cycle the gun. 1) because I was using info from previous loadings using that OAL and 2) any cycling of live ammo is not something I like doing if I don't have to. The rounds loaded previously shot fine. I was just clearing out the last 50 rds of the Ranier 200gr plated RN bullets I had on hand.

Why some (3) fired and the rest jammed is a mystery. I randomly checked OAL on the rounds after setting the initial length. They were OK. Two days later - they weren't. I think I am gonna set my OAL about 0.010" less in the future and see how that affects them.

[Unclenick]

Glad you got the length sorted.

Originally Posted by robhic

My only curiousity is how the 3 rounds loaded to 1.270" fired yesterday. Three fired and #4 locked up the gun. I plonked all of the re-seated rounds just to be sure.

Brass has tolerances, too. I've weighed and measured enough of it to know that most makers mix brass coming off multiple forming die sets. It's not uncommon to be able to identify four or more distinct sets of brass, plus there is some bell curve distribution within the output of each set of tooling. So you got three off tooling that made them thin enough at the base so they were still not too fat to just fit in the chamber, even with the bullet base widening them, then got one that was thicker.

Originally Posted by hdwhit

Perhaps if someone has access to Quickload, they could run 7 grains of HS-6, a 200 grain plated bullet

Look back at my post #15. Already done!

[Rule3]

PLUNK ,PLUNK, PLUNK

I did not see this mentioned anywhere. After you seated the bullets did you remove the FLAIR ie) taper crimp the round to remove the flair.??

Then PLUNK them in the empty barrel. It should drop in (PLUNK) THEN turn the barrel over and the round should FALL out. If not then seat a tad deeper until it does,

This is not advanced rocket science. Yes, a clean chamber and barrel will make a difference.

The choice of HS6 for the 45 ACP is well. another topic.

[mikld]

Just a random thought; if you are using a plated round nose bullet, why are you using LSWC data? If you don't have plated bullet data why not use lead round nose data? Lyman manual had data for a LRN bullet of 225 gr. and OAL info from that should work for your plated bullets...

[Jim Watson]

For historical usage, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6a3fck0NBI

The modern usage for "plonk" is to not accept posts from a disagreeable internet correspondent.

[robhic]

Just a random thought; if you are using a plated round nose bullet, why are you using LSWC data? If you don't have plated bullet data why not use lead round nose data? Lyman manual had data for a LRN bullet of 225 gr. and OAL info from that should work for your plated bullets...

I was using a ".45acp Load Book" and found the data for a lead WC bullet of 200gr weight. Figuring LWC and plated RN would be similar, except for bullet OAL, I used the lead bullet and seated at an OAL I had used previously with my plated RN bullets. I then used the barrel for OAL for the RN bullet and trial and error until these rounds worked upon dropping in, turning and dropping out of my barrel was good, IMO. I guess Uncle Nick's explanation is the reason the rounds worked before and 3 worked this time before locking up the gun.

[robhic]

I did not see this mentioned anywhere. After you seated the bullets did you remove the FLAIR ie) taper crimp the round to remove the flair.??

Then PLUNK them in the empty barrel. It should drop in (PLUNK) THEN turn the barrel over and the round should FALL out. If not then seat a tad deeper until it does,

I removed the flair, TURNED THE ROUNDS and let them drop out without help. Some fired some didn't. The barrel was clean and coated with EEZOX dry lubricant.

[Rule3]

I removed the flair, TURNED THE ROUNDS and let them drop out without help. Some fired some didn't. The barrel was clean and coated with EEZOX dry lubricant.

Turned the rounds?? Or turned the barrel upside down??

Didn't fire? or got jammed??

Did not fire is a different situation.

Your COL should be around 1.259 give or take a hair. A few thousandths is not gonna matter but can make the difference between go and no go,

Accurate powder has data for your 200 gr RN and that is their listed length (with different powder)

[Unclenick]

Rule3,

If you read the rest of the thread, you will learn the manufacturer recommends 1.240" COL for this particular bullet shape. The huge variety of shapes now available has eliminated a lot of interchangeability by weight that used to exist. This article explains it.

Here's a newer version of that old image of mine with a little more explanatory labeling added:

[Billglass]

Robert

Can you post clear pictures of your bullets and cases unassembled and assembled?

I'm seeing LSWC (lead semi-wadcutter and LWC (lead wadcutter) compared to the plated RN and COL for a 9mm among other things. Wadcutters are generally seated flush with the case mouth which gives minimal volume under the bullet. You won't find any data for wadcutters useful for loading plated round nose bullets

You got a bunch of guys willing to look over your shoulder to help you get through this....pictures would be of great help.

Also, the plunk test won't pick up issues with the bullet seated too deep.

[hdwhit]

jag2 wrote:
What am I missing?

What you're missing is that the OP is loading 45 ACP which should NOT be 1.070.

The fact the OP started with a 7 grain load and OAL of 1.070 rather than 8.2 grains and an OAL of around 1.225 which Hodgdon (maker of the powder) and other published manuals say to use strongly suggests the OP was loading 45 ACP using 45 GAP data.

[Rule3]

"If you read the rest of the thread, you will learn the manufacturer recommends 1.240" COL for this particular bullet shape. The huge variety of shapes now available has eliminated a lot of interchangeability by weight that used to exist. This article explains it."

Yes Rainer stated 1.240
What barrel did they test it in?

Accurate Tested it at 1.269

So it goes to show again that it is up to the individual chamber/barrel to determine what works.


The length I provided was an example from ACCURATE with that bullet and whatever barrel. It is a starting point. The exact seating depth or COL is up to the individual and HIS barrel

As with any bullet the OP can start long and adjust it until it actually PLUNK tests properly, it should not be this complicated.

Just a WAG but the OP is seating the bullets too long.

As a example form another bullet, Hodgdon seats ALL the 230 gr bullets RN or FN) at 1.200. I don't seat them that short.

[kmw1954]

Guess I'll throw this out there too. I have a 9mm that I can load 115gr or 124gr RN bullets all the way out to 1.180 and the will still plunk just fine in the barrel. Only they will not fit into the magazine. So by this parameter I could load as long a case as will fit in the mag and then adjust the powder charge. Problem then is that these loads will not fit into my other 9mm which has a very tight chamber.

[Marco Califo]

I've seen it spelled both ways - 'plOnk and plUnk. Tomato - tomatoe.

Plunk - plonk (SIC)
45 ACP - 45 GAP
45 ACP - 45 Colt (LC)
Apples - oranges
Right - wrong
Correct - incorrect
OAL Within SAAMI specs - out of specs
Reloaded cartridges that work - unsafe ammo
5 fingers on each hand - careless reloading practices
2 working eyeballs - careless reloading practices
Literate and coherent - not literate and coherent
Careful reference to reloading manuals - parameters from IIRC realm

And in this (reloading) context, was there any question as to my reference?

YES But, I already answered that in post #25.
Have fun at the range!

[Marco Califo]

After using the disassembled barrel for the plunk test, I did NOT hand-cycle the gun.

I believe you should have. If not hand-cycling then firing the rounds in a gun. You did. You had problems. Ergo you did something different and wrong and got unreliable ammo.

1) because I was using info from previous loadings using that OAL and

Well, something went wrong, didn't it.

2) any cycling of live ammo is not something I like doing if I don't have to.

When I carry a firearm at work, I cycle one round into and out of the chamber every shift, loading and unloading. I know for a fact that ammo that ammo goes through that pistol.

The rounds loaded previously shot fine.

Obviously, something was different, you did it, and you need to identify it and remediate the issue. No one else can do that for you. It is your process, and your result. You own it.

I was just clearing out the last 50 rds of the Ranier 200gr plated RN bullets I had on hand.

Whatever you did, something didn't work right.

Why some (3) fired and the rest jammed is a mystery.

I am certain that something you did caused this, and it is not good. No mystery there.

I randomly checked OAL on the rounds after setting the initial length. They were OK. Two days later - they weren't. I think I am gonna set my OAL about 0.010" less in the future and see how that affects them.

I don't think you get it. Your cartridges did not change. How you measure different things, on different days, consult references, and interpret results may be introducing unintended and undesired variability in your results. Pass the plunk test, but gun jams means you loaded bad ammo, and are not properly doing, or interpreting your plunk test. The plunk test will rule out over diameter ammo, but it is an incomplete test, because the gun is disassembled, and the cartridge is not: 1. going into the magazine, 2. coming out of the magazine, 3. going into the chamber, 4. action closes (in battery) with the round in the chamber, 5. is fired, and 6. finally gets ejected. That is six different "test" that happen every time you fire a cartridge. I recommend you determine what it was and remediate your methods.
I do recommend you get and properly use a micrometer, a case guage for you cartridge, and reread your manual (for that caliber) and review all data (COAL, case length, look at your marked barrel caliber), and, examine your brass condition and headstamps ) EVERY TIME you reload. Look closely at the top of this case gauge:
https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reloadi.../dp/B005I0IU5E
notice the High-Low marks, when you plunk your round into the case gauge head-stamped part of the brass must be between these marks. The is the SAAMI specification. That is a much better measure and test than your barrel plunk test.
You can make dummy rounds to try different COAL's safely. If you know what you are doing and are careful, you can cycle live rounds safely, too. Quite a few people do that everyday.

[Rule3]

For the OP.

In case this was not mentioned (I am not going to wade through the whole thread)

Even though you stated you taper crimped. did you check the case mouth diameter right at the edge where it meets the bullet. It should be right around .470"

Even if the OAL is correct, if the brass is not tapered down (flair removed) enough it will stick,

Yes. this will vary some depending on bullet diameter and brass wall thickness.

Hope you figure out the problem.

[robhic]

I don't think you get it. Your cartridges did not change. How you measure different things, on different days, consult references, and interpret results may be introducing unintended and undesired variability in your results. Pass the plunk test, but gun jams means you loaded bad ammo, and are not properly doing, or interpreting your plunk test. The plunk test will rule out over diameter ammo, but it is an incomplete test, because the gun is disassembled...

Let me recap this entire thread to hopefully clear up what happened for those who didn't read the thread in its entirety:

I made up 50 - 200gr RN 45acp rounds using Ranier plated bullets. I had done this before. These were the last 50 bullets in the box. I seated them at 1.270" which turned out to be too long OAL. Three rounds fired and 47 did not. Gun out of battery. Couldn't figure why 3 rounds fired and I had success with these same bullets in the past.

I posted here but mistakenly used the OAL figure of 1.070" BECAUSE I MIS-READ MY HAND-WRITTEN RELOAD LOG AS 1.070 INSTEAD OF 1.270". Rounds, in reality, were loaded to 1.270" couldn't figure why 3 fired and the rest would not. Because they were too long.

Numerous posts decried the too short -1.070 OAL - as dangerous. And they would have been, except they were 1.270 and I used the shorter OAL mistakenly because of my reading error. Nothing was unsafe, just mis-
reported.

Got that sorted out, re-seated the 1.270" rounds to 1.240" and using my barrel (only 45 I have...) they plunked and I was able to rotate them and they dropped out of the barrel at their new length. I did NOT hand-cycle just because....

I now have rounds at 1.240" that fit in the barrel (only barrel) they will be used in. I will probably try them next week and I expect the new, shorter OAL to work, as others I loaded in the past have. This should clear things up and Uncle Nick's explanation as to why some of my rounds fired and some didn't which was my original reason for posting this to begin with. Thanks, Uncle Nick!!! Problem solved as far as I can see.

[TailGator]

The point that some people are trying to make is that the plunk test (no matter how you spell it) primarily checks the diameter of the finished round, and the uniformity thereof. (A bit of an oversimplification, perhaps, but not way off.) You had an issue with feeding that might well have had to do with OAL. Hand cycling a few rounds could tell you whether you fixed that problem. Your choice, of course, whether to check your altered rounds at home or at the range. Let us know.

[disseminator]

I had a similar issue where I made up a batch of 230g Berry's Round Nose at 1.27" they would not feed reliably in my SIG P227. They worked perfectly in my M&P45.

Go figure.

[Marco Califo]

It was your question. People tried to help you. Now see you are a troll. I do not need you recrap anything. Time to close this thread.

[robhic]

It was your question. People tried to help you. Now see you are a troll. I do not need you recrap anything. Time to close this thread.

Troll? In what way? I asked a question. One of quite a few I've asked before. I admit I am new and possibly not as adept at using some terms properly. But it was a sincere question. "Why did some rounds fire while others prevented a return to battery? I had plunked/plonked the rounds (OK, at least most of 'em) and they seemed fine. Two days later things weren't fine. Why?"

I got a bunch of answers and some had no relevance, IMO. Uncle Nick answered or at least gave a theory as to why this happened. I was happy with his reasoning and the thread coulda closed then. But it didn't....

[mikld]

[mikld]

Quote:
Just a random thought; if you are using a plated round nose bullet, why are you using LSWC data? If you don't have plated bullet data why not use lead round nose data? Lyman manual had data for a LRN bullet of 225 gr. and OAL info from that should work for your plated bullets...
I was using a ".45acp Load Book" and found the data for a lead WC bullet of 200gr weight. Figuring LWC and plated RN would be similar, except for bullet OAL, I used the lead bullet and seated at an OAL I had used previously with my plated RN bullets. I then used the barrel for OAL for the RN bullet and trial and error until these rounds worked upon dropping in, turning and dropping out of my barrel was good, IMO. I guess Uncle Nick's explanation is the reason the rounds worked before and 3 worked this time before locking up the gun.

OK, I understand now...

Seems like this thread has descended to a septic tank level...