'58 Remington usage question - Page 2

g.willikers · April 4, 2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:

I'm betting they hung on to them if possible.

Didn't they literally do that, with lanyards and such?

Hawg · April 4, 2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Didn't they literally do that, with lanyards and such?

No. When's the last time you saw a 60 Colt with a lanyard ring? They had saddle rings on the carbines tho.

RJay · April 4, 2016, 03:29 PM

Now that would be fun to watch, someone with six to eight revolvers all with lanyards hooked to their belt

SIGSHR · April 4, 2016, 03:36 PM

I would like to see someone doing a quick change of a Remington M1858 cylinder on horseback, with the bullets flying.

jmar · April 4, 2016, 05:17 PM

I don't think it would be that bad as long as you set the empty cylinder down before you grabbed the loaded one.

BlackPowderBen · April 4, 2016, 06:00 PM

One of the problems with swapping cylinders would've been holding onto the reins while doing it

jmar · April 4, 2016, 06:05 PM

I don't ride horses but cant they control them selves for a few seconds, or do they immediately flip out once you release the reins? Thought that knob on the saddle was a place to put the reins when you need to use your hands.

gasmandave · April 4, 2016, 07:31 PM

Put the reins in your teeth like Rooster Cogburn in "True Grit". LOL

jmar · April 4, 2016, 08:03 PM

Hold up, wasn't most of the civil war fought on foot anyways? If your galloping on a horse you're a bigger target and cant aim precisely... Doesn't seem right.

spacecoast · April 4, 2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

No. When's the last time you saw a 60 Colt with a lanyard ring?

Well actually, my original '58 Remington has an interesting cutout on the bottom of the stocks (nicely repaired sometime later) that most likely was for a lanyard that went around the frame.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ight=remington

BlackPowderBen · April 4, 2016, 11:28 PM

Yes most of the war was fought on foot but the cavalry was the only unit to use revolvers besides officers and artillery jmar. Also I've only rode a horse a few times, but I can tell you when the horse is trotting and you let go off the reins and horn, good luck staying on. Then on top of that try swapping cylinders! You also need a hammer thong on your holster, don't ask me how I figured that one out!

Hawg · April 4, 2016, 11:55 PM

Yeah Spacecoast but that's a homemade one of job that obviously a later owner didn't care for. Nice gun BTW.

Boogershooter · April 5, 2016, 01:09 AM

Sorry I'm late to this conversation. At the beginning of the war calvary was very effective with light fast attacks. They would fire their one or two pistols then withdraw. Regroup the ranks, put fired pistols in saddle bags and grab fresh loaded pistols, then attack again.
The problem with spare cylinders was the fact that the bear grease or whatever they were using would melt in the heat and result in all chambers going off. That usually resulted in a useless pistol. I grew up doing reenactments of the war for Southern independence. You would be amazed how many places a true calvaryman could stick a pistol and be able to retrieve it during battle. Most military issued saddles didn't have horns.

Hawg · April 5, 2016, 01:22 AM

Quote:

The problem with spare cylinders was the fact that the bear grease or whatever they were using would melt in the heat and result in all chambers going off

Actually chain firing wasn't an issue. Revolvers during the war were very predominately loaded with paper cartridges and conical bullets. Over ball lube wasn't used.

Branko · April 5, 2016, 03:23 AM

Slathering grease all over the front of the gun is modern practice.

horseman308 · April 5, 2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmar

I don't ride horses but cant they control them selves for a few seconds, or do they immediately flip out once you release the reins? Thought that knob on the saddle was a place to put the reins when you need to use your hands.

Well trained horses with an experienced rider can be controlled just by putting pressure from one leg/heel/spur to the horse's side - no reins necessary. The whole point is to be able to ride and still use both hands if needed. In fact, if you ride long your legs will become quite strong from gripping the horse's sides anyway. The horn on a typical Western saddle is for tying off a lasso that you've used to rope a cow. That wasn't a common thing til the cattle ranching era (I don't think), and cavalry saddles wouldn't have had them.

Hawg · April 5, 2016, 11:27 AM

McClellan cavalry saddle

MIOkie · April 16, 2016, 10:47 AM

"Yes most of the war was fought on foot but the cavalry was the only unit to use revolvers besides officers and artillery jmar. "

Can't forget about the artillery.

Artillery NCOs had the option of carrying sidearms, revolver and saber, with the saber being mostly worn for dress.

Not sure about the privates, but those serving the gun were not encumbered with needless accouterments.

Hawg · April 16, 2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Artillery NCOs had the option of carrying sidearms

NCO's go under the officer category.

James K · April 17, 2016, 10:53 PM

Military revolvers in that period were loaded with cartridges, period. No organized troops carried powder flasks and loose bullets, though some "militia" might have. And loading a revolver with cartridges is fairly fast if one has some practice.

Regardless of well-publicized statements to the contrary, standard practice on both sides was to consider the saber to be the primary weapon for fighting on horseback, and the carbine for fighting dismounted. The revolver was used in shock tactics or if distance was too great for the saber, but revolvers had the serious problem of the shooter being as likely to hit a friendly trooper or his own horse as an enemy soldier.

Incidentally, the Remington was not universally liked. One reason was that the top strap kept fired caps from being thrown clear so they fell into the mechanism. Caps could be cleared from the Colt by turning the gun upside down while cocking and that was often done by pointing the gun up and back over the shoulder. That was the origin of the Army practice of commencing range firing from the "raise pistol" position, a practice taught at least into the 1970's.

Jim

Hawg · April 17, 2016, 11:21 PM

I don't think cap jams were all that big of a problem back then. I had some original caps altho I don't know who made them or from what precise time period they were from but they were copper and a little thicker than modern caps. I don't see them blowing apart like modern caps do.

gasmandave · April 19, 2016, 11:51 AM

Not old school in any way but this is how you can store loaded and capped cylinders with worry. Tupperrware.

April 4, 2016, 06:00 PM	#31
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	One of the problems with swapping cylinders would've been holding onto the reins while doing it __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

April 4, 2016, 11:28 PM	#36
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Yes most of the war was fought on foot but the cavalry was the only unit to use revolvers besides officers and artillery jmar. Also I've only rode a horse a few times, but I can tell you when the horse is trotting and you let go off the reins and horn, good luck staying on. Then on top of that try swapping cylinders! You also need a hammer thong on your holster, don't ask me how I figured that one out! __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

April 4, 2016, 03:29 PM	#28
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Now that would be fun to watch, someone with six to eight revolvers all with lanyards hooked to their belt

April 4, 2016, 03:36 PM	#29
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,712	I would like to see someone doing a quick change of a Remington M1858 cylinder on horseback, with the bullets flying.

April 4, 2016, 05:17 PM	#30
jmar Member Join Date: February 27, 2016 Posts: 49	I don't think it would be that bad as long as you set the empty cylinder down before you grabbed the loaded one.

April 4, 2016, 06:05 PM	#32
jmar Member Join Date: February 27, 2016 Posts: 49	I don't ride horses but cant they control them selves for a few seconds, or do they immediately flip out once you release the reins? Thought that knob on the saddle was a place to put the reins when you need to use your hands.

April 4, 2016, 07:31 PM	#33
gasmandave Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2012 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 223	Put the reins in your teeth like Rooster Cogburn in "True Grit". LOL

April 4, 2016, 08:03 PM	#34
jmar Member Join Date: February 27, 2016 Posts: 49	Hold up, wasn't most of the civil war fought on foot anyways? If your galloping on a horse you're a bigger target and cant aim precisely... Doesn't seem right.

April 4, 2016, 11:55 PM	#37
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	Yeah Spacecoast but that's a homemade one of job that obviously a later owner didn't care for. Nice gun BTW.

April 5, 2016, 01:09 AM	#38
Boogershooter Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 645	Sorry I'm late to this conversation. At the beginning of the war calvary was very effective with light fast attacks. They would fire their one or two pistols then withdraw. Regroup the ranks, put fired pistols in saddle bags and grab fresh loaded pistols, then attack again. The problem with spare cylinders was the fact that the bear grease or whatever they were using would melt in the heat and result in all chambers going off. That usually resulted in a useless pistol. I grew up doing reenactments of the war for Southern independence. You would be amazed how many places a true calvaryman could stick a pistol and be able to retrieve it during battle. Most military issued saddles didn't have horns.

April 5, 2016, 03:23 AM	#40
Branko Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2015 Location: Croatia Posts: 188	Slathering grease all over the front of the gun is modern practice.

April 5, 2016, 11:27 AM	#42
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	McClellan cavalry saddle

April 16, 2016, 10:47 AM	#43
MIOkie Member Join Date: April 13, 2014 Location: NE Oklahoma Posts: 39	"Yes most of the war was fought on foot but the cavalry was the only unit to use revolvers besides officers and artillery jmar. " Can't forget about the artillery. Artillery NCOs had the option of carrying sidearms, revolver and saber, with the saber being mostly worn for dress. Not sure about the privates, but those serving the gun were not encumbered with needless accouterments.

April 17, 2016, 10:53 PM	#45
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Military revolvers in that period were loaded with cartridges, period. No organized troops carried powder flasks and loose bullets, though some "militia" might have. And loading a revolver with cartridges is fairly fast if one has some practice. Regardless of well-publicized statements to the contrary, standard practice on both sides was to consider the saber to be the primary weapon for fighting on horseback, and the carbine for fighting dismounted. The revolver was used in shock tactics or if distance was too great for the saber, but revolvers had the serious problem of the shooter being as likely to hit a friendly trooper or his own horse as an enemy soldier. Incidentally, the Remington was not universally liked. One reason was that the top strap kept fired caps from being thrown clear so they fell into the mechanism. Caps could be cleared from the Colt by turning the gun upside down while cocking and that was often done by pointing the gun up and back over the shoulder. That was the origin of the Army practice of commencing range firing from the "raise pistol" position, a practice taught at least into the 1970's. Jim

April 17, 2016, 11:21 PM	#46
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	I don't think cap jams were all that big of a problem back then. I had some original caps altho I don't know who made them or from what precise time period they were from but they were copper and a little thicker than modern caps. I don't see them blowing apart like modern caps do.

April 19, 2016, 11:51 AM	#47
gasmandave Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2012 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 223	Not old school in any way but this is how you can store loaded and capped cylinders with worry. Tupperrware.