1851 Colt Navy 1st Gen. - Page 2

bixbysales · December 16, 2014, 05:27 PM

thanks everyone

blacksheepone · December 19, 2014, 04:21 PM

Sorry to say but it's a clone. And what gave it away is the hammer. On one of the pictures you see that the spur of the hammer is not serrated. Looks like a Pietta modified to look like the real deal....
Mostly these Piettas are good shooters so not everything has been lost...

Gaucho Gringo · December 19, 2014, 05:57 PM

Check the screws. If they are metric it is not a original Colt.

James K · December 20, 2014, 02:55 PM

Good advice, GG, but in this case the gun is so obviously not authentic that it is not necessary to get into that kind of detail.

Jim

2ndgenwin · December 20, 2014, 03:57 PM

You gentlemen have me more curious than ever at this point. All the items pointed out from era correct barrel design stamp to the hammer profile and hand checkering, corrections or identifiers tell me that I am holding a true 3rd gen 1851 Navy Colt. One difference though is mine doesn't have the 36 cal. stamped on the trigger guard. serial # 138xxx which shows to manufactured in 1863. My cylinder # is 2546 which doesn't match any of the other numbers on the gun, also the wedge doesn't have any numbers on it at all. Would this set off any flags?? Thanks for all the information!!!

Kelly Mark

blacksheepone · December 20, 2014, 04:58 PM

2ndgenwin posssible the wedge got lost, that's not dramatic and a lot of original revolvers of that era don't have their original cylinder either.... Check if all serials are present. Turn the gun around you'll see the serial on the butt , trigger guard , frame and barrel. Open the loading lever check it's inside the serial should be there too....

Hawg · December 20, 2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

a true 3rd gen 1851 Navy Colt

You mean first gen.

spacecoast · December 20, 2014, 08:01 PM

Quote:

2ndgenwin posssible the wedge got lost, that's not dramatic and a lot of original revolvers of that era don't have their original cylinder either

Agreed, mismatched cylinders and wedges are not at all unusual (I have a '49 Pocket with the same condition). They detract somewhat from the value, but do not make the gun any less authentic.

Fingers McGee · December 20, 2014, 08:53 PM

Biggest giveaway to it's not being a First Gen is the serial number. SN 1241 should be a 1st model Navy (SN 1 - 1250) with the wedge over the wedge screw and a dado cut on the arbor instead of the slot. There are no pictures of the right side of the barrel/frame, but I would bet on the loading notch being beveled rather than just V type as a 1st Gen should be.

Cylinder shows signs of never having safety pins.

Colts Patent on cylinder is wrong font and shouldn't be stacked

As well as the other incorrect characteristics mentioned.

There is a distinct possibility that this is a piece made up of original and reproduction parts meaning to deceive - rather than just repros.

blacksheepone · December 22, 2014, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Agreed, mismatched cylinders and wedges are not at all unusual (I have a '49 Pocket with the same condition). They detract somewhat from the value, but do not make the gun any less authentic.

Just what you say. Doesn't make it less authentic at all.

Mk VII · December 22, 2014, 06:20 PM

The other day I was looking at #22380 in the London series. (Lot #475 in the Bonhams sale in London last month). No 36 CAL marked on that, either. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21639/lot/475/

Wedges are quite frequently replaced. They were designed to be cheap and replaceable.

James K · December 24, 2014, 02:32 AM

An unnumbered wedge is a replacement. Very common, especially on military guns.

Jim

jughead2 · December 24, 2014, 05:30 AM

would the notch for shoulder stock increase the value of such weapon?

CameronP · December 24, 2014, 11:15 AM

I've had a few Euroarms 51's in my day. In my opinion, they had a clumsy looking hammer (not elegant like an original). The hammer on subject revolver sure reminds me of those on the Euros. As for my two cents (not pure copper), I vote for fake.

CameronP · December 24, 2014, 11:22 AM

double post

December 19, 2014, 05:57 PM	#28
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	Check the screws. If they are metric it is not a original Colt. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

December 20, 2014, 03:57 PM	#30
2ndgenwin Junior Member Join Date: December 20, 2014 Posts: 4	1851 Navy Colt You gentlemen have me more curious than ever at this point. All the items pointed out from era correct barrel design stamp to the hammer profile and hand checkering, corrections or identifiers tell me that I am holding a true 3rd gen 1851 Navy Colt. One difference though is mine doesn't have the 36 cal. stamped on the trigger guard. serial # 138xxx which shows to manufactured in 1863. My cylinder # is 2546 which doesn't match any of the other numbers on the gun, also the wedge doesn't have any numbers on it at all. Would this set off any flags?? Thanks for all the information!!! Kelly Mark

December 22, 2014, 06:20 PM	#36
Mk VII Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: England Posts: 457	The other day I was looking at #22380 in the London series. (Lot #475 in the Bonhams sale in London last month). No 36 CAL marked on that, either. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21639/lot/475/ Wedges are quite frequently replaced. They were designed to be cheap and replaceable. Last edited by Mk VII; December 22, 2014 at 06:27 PM.

December 24, 2014, 05:30 AM	#38
jughead2 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2008 Location: tenn. Posts: 263	colt navy would the notch for shoulder stock increase the value of such weapon?

December 24, 2014, 11:22 AM	#40
CameronP Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Location: West Jordan, Utah Posts: 71	double post Last edited by CameronP; December 24, 2014 at 05:07 PM. Reason: double post

December 16, 2014, 05:27 PM	#26
bixbysales Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2014 Location: bixby Oklahoma Posts: 11	thanks everyone

December 19, 2014, 04:21 PM	#27
blacksheepone Member Join Date: November 18, 2014 Posts: 54	Sorry to say but it's a clone. And what gave it away is the hammer. On one of the pictures you see that the spur of the hammer is not serrated. Looks like a Pietta modified to look like the real deal.... Mostly these Piettas are good shooters so not everything has been lost...

December 20, 2014, 02:55 PM	#29
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Good advice, GG, but in this case the gun is so obviously not authentic that it is not necessary to get into that kind of detail. Jim

December 20, 2014, 04:58 PM	#31
blacksheepone Member Join Date: November 18, 2014 Posts: 54	2ndgenwin posssible the wedge got lost, that's not dramatic and a lot of original revolvers of that era don't have their original cylinder either.... Check if all serials are present. Turn the gun around you'll see the serial on the butt , trigger guard , frame and barrel. Open the loading lever check it's inside the serial should be there too....

December 20, 2014, 08:53 PM	#34
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Biggest giveaway to it's not being a First Gen is the serial number. SN 1241 should be a 1st model Navy (SN 1 - 1250) with the wedge over the wedge screw and a dado cut on the arbor instead of the slot. There are no pictures of the right side of the barrel/frame, but I would bet on the loading notch being beveled rather than just V type as a 1st Gen should be. Cylinder shows signs of never having safety pins. Colts Patent on cylinder is wrong font and shouldn't be stacked As well as the other incorrect characteristics mentioned. There is a distinct possibility that this is a piece made up of original and reproduction parts meaning to deceive - rather than just repros.

December 24, 2014, 02:32 AM	#37
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	An unnumbered wedge is a replacement. Very common, especially on military guns. Jim

December 24, 2014, 11:15 AM	#39
CameronP Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Location: West Jordan, Utah Posts: 71	I've had a few Euroarms 51's in my day. In my opinion, they had a clumsy looking hammer (not elegant like an original). The hammer on subject revolver sure reminds me of those on the Euros. As for my two cents (not pure copper), I vote for fake.