Check This Out from Lee Precision!

[CrustyFN]

I guess if Lee's products were 3 times the price they would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just because they are prices as they are they must be junk.

Don it is amazing how many people think this way.

I would like to see them come out with a square tray like that for the safety prime also.

[chiefr]

I have loaded many thousands of cartridges with the same Lee AutoPrime I have owned for over 30 years. This device has never failed.
I have also loaded many mil surplus cases after removing the crimp which in some cases require extra pressure to seat the primer.
Despite varying opinions, IMHO the Lee autoprime is a superior product and a bargain for the price

[FrankenMauser]

It is apparent that you have never used an Auto Prime or know anything about them.

The Auto Prime was the first hand priming tool I ever used. I primed upwards of 10,000 rounds with it. In total, that Auto Prime was used for probably 100,000 rounds before it broke. It was, however, one of the early production versions; not the newer, extremely breakage-prone production.

That was my father's tool. The replacement he has now is his 6th in 10 years. After the good one broke, it was all down hill. (And, yes, he lubed and cared for the tools appropriately.) They may have been good tools 20+ years ago, but current production is terrible. In fact, current production is so good, my father, a staunch hater of all things Hornady, bought the Hornady tool, so his constantly-breaking Lee could sit in a dark corner of his reloading room.

What good is a tool, if it breaks every time you use it?



This isn't about money. If you think I'm an elitist pig, about reloading products, you obviously haven't read many of my threads. I DO have a hatred of many Lee products, but it is from experience, not prejudice (or an elitist attitude ).

I learned, through trial and error, that the world of reloading tools does fit the saying, "You get what you pay for".
Some Lee tools work fantastically well, for the price that was paid. They may not last long, and may have interesting idiosyncrasies, but they do work. However, I have found plenty Lee tools that do not even work well enough to justify the low price.

Their dies, in particular, really anger me. When a sizing die still has internal machine marks (looked like the reamer broke), so well defined, that cases can't even be inserted into the die.... there's a definite quality control issue. When that die gets sent back to Lee for replacement, and they return it with a note, "No Defect. Within tolerances".... that's an insult. I don't care how pretty the plastic container is; when some one takes a crap in a box (and won't honor their warranty), I'm not going to pay for it.

My reloading bench is a rainbow: Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Dillon, Possum Hollow, Lyman, Cabela's, Redding..... the list goes on.

There are certain tools from every one of these manufacturers, that I have come to hate (they're poorly designed, or not worth the cost). However, even their bad designs are often built more precisely, and more durably than the Lee equivalent.

Examples of some stupid designs:
Redding Boss and Lyman Crusher II single stage presses: The play in the linkage and rams of these presses is the worst I have seen, across the entire industry. Lee's hand press actually has less play than these (but will bend it's "C" frame, and wear out much quicker).

RCBS's RC Supreme II single stage press: The primer catch tray is just plain stupid. It doesn't stay in place, is impossible to empty without spilling primers, and doesn't work anyway (since the primers just fly out the primer arm cutout on the front of the ram). And... the die-to-shell-holder mating is obscured by the press's frame, at full stroke. It is nearly impossible to use any feeler gauges or shims with this press, to set head space, crimp, etc.

Lyman's basic case trimmer: Are you serious? How can it be considered precise, when the cutting arm wanders 0.080"? (I still consider it better than Lee's Zip-Trim and Lock Stud and Cutter systems. That stuff is a joke. Yes, I own them. I can justify calling it a joke.)

Hornady's hand priming tool: An "ergonomics" design that makes your hand go numb after 50 cases, and pinches delicate parts of the hand is incredibly stupid (look around, at reviews; they're common complaints). Stupid, stupid design.

RCBS's Hand Primer (standard, non-APS version): This piece of crap is very easy on the hands, does have a cutoff gate to prevent sympathetic detonation, and has good seating feel. However, the tray design is crap (and falls apart for many users), the primer seating rams are undersized, and even RCBS shell holders won't work with the large/small plastic inserts. (The Universal version is a far better tool.... but still has its own issues.)

--

With current Lee tools, you get what you pay for: The worst warranty in the industry, a roll of the dice for quality, and a known short lifespan for many tools.

I may be predicting the failure points of the new Lee Auto Prime only by looking at a picture, but I am not the average reloader. A good portion of my life has involved destructive testing of mechanical devices and tools.

[Rifleman1776]

On the whole, I am not a fan of Lee products. Their aluminum moulds and the auto primer are exceptions. The old auto prime could have been made better years ago, I have worn out several and do nowheres the amount of reloading many other folks do.
This looks like a good thing.

[snuffy]

Almost without exception, I order lee products ON PURPOSE! Why? Because they work right out-of-the-box without any special repairs.

Another reason is, they have tools no one else makes. Try to find a RCBS,REDDING,LYMAN,HORNADY---ETC. collet neck die. Or a factory crimp die for any of the three types of crimp. How about a powder measure that sits directly on top of a powder-through-expander?

The auto prime is the original idea of Lee. the others are copies of that great idea. Yes, they improved on it, but now Lee has caught up with their upgrade.

Lee knew about the short-comings of the original turret. Even though no one else has copied it, they went ahead, redesigned and updated it to the excellent classic turret.

Frakenmauser has had some bad items. I don't doubt that one bit. Maybe he walks around with a raincloud above his head, or just has very bad luck.

I loaned a 6 cav bullet mold to a buddy I was sure I had told him to pre-heat the mold, or he wouldn't be able to cut the sprues result, broken sprue cam. I took it apart, snapped a pic of it, sent the pic via email attch. to lee. Had the answer the next day. They looked at the pic, said because they could plainly see the break, they would send me a replacement. I got TWO in the mail in 2 days.

I got a .458 mold for my 45/70, the 325 RNFP. It cast bullets at .456 no matter what I did. I sent it back with a note that I had a H&R buffalo classic that slugged @ .4585, could they look to see if they had any that might work to make a .459 bullet? 5 days later comes a new mold that cast right at .459! Now that's service!

Their prices reflect lack of quality control. Now nobody does 100% quality control. But I suspect lee does less. So, a bad piece can get through. Maybe their tolerances are less strict as well. All I know is everything I got from them was right out of the box except that one mold.

[aerod1]

I have only been reloading 3 years but everything I have purchased from Lee has performed flawlessly including the "Auto Prime".
Lee Precision makes the hobby of reloading attainable for the average person!

[BDS-THR]

FrankenMauser:
lever breaking a little farther up than the older version (so, now, it might actually cause some nasty lacerations to unfortunate fingers).

Time will tell...

Actually, no. This from Lee's website:

The new tool also has a new unbreakable comfort curve lever

[FrankenMauser]

Originally Posted by BDS-THR

Actually, no. This from Lee's website:

My last watch was waterproof to 30 meters. I think they meant 30 meters above water...

What that quote really reminds me of, is the 'unsinkable' Titanic. I can't really use it as an example, though. The Titanic was never actually advertised as such.


Did anyone else notice their note at the bottom of the description?

Originally Posted by Lee Precision Website

**Note: The Auto Prime body has to be opened up slightly on the top rim for large diameter Magnum cases to fit.

They still haven't fixed this issue. (My dad had to modify a couple of his previous Auto Primes, just to accept H&H case heads.)

On a good note, they'll do it for $4. Having a receipt for the factory modification would definitely help, should an issue arise.



As snuffy said, I have had some horrible experiences with many Lee products I have bought, or used (whether it was customer service, quality control, or an inherently worthless design). It's not an elitist attitude; it's experience.

I feel I have the right to talk about those experiences (and apply them to other products). However, everything I make direct statements about, I have used (and still own a few -- in their broken {or compromised} states, and otherwise).


I'm not trying to rain on everybody's parade. I'm just trying to express my opinion and predictions.


Edit: You guys have reminded me, though. I need to be more specific about my displeasure, in my "XXX Lee product is crap" responses. Without some explanation, the threads turn into something like this one....

[mikld]

I learned one thing from reading reloading forums for a few years; I read the title first! If it deals with a subject that I have no intrest in or nothing positive to contribute; I don't click on it! And "Lee Junk" posts are usually included.

I've seen all the "Lee Junk" posts and have come to the conclusion many if not most (all?) anti-Lee posts are from someone who had one or two bad experiences with Lee products. I have Lee equipment that have loaded successfully for 20+ years (my only problem with my hand priming tool is I lost it!). I have Lee products that I don't like, but it's my needs that are not met, not Lee's quality. I have never broken any Lee product, but then I know how to use hand tools. I have RCBS dies that are only used for paperweights, so should I berate/badmouth every RCBS product? Yeah!! Made in China junk, old Chevy bumpers made into presses, yuucckk. Anybody in their right mind will walk, no, run away from RCBS! Just as moronic as berating/badmouthing Lee, IMHO...

[jimbob86]

Lock Stud and Cutter systems. That stuff is a joke. Yes, I own them. I can justify calling it a joke.)

Care to elaborate what, exactly, makes them so bad?

[sdt11670]

If not for Lee, whose dies would all the other companies have copied?

If not for Lee, whose case activated powder measures would they have purchased patents rights from?

If not for Lee, whose priming tools would they have copied?

Not to mention removable tool heads.

If not for Richard Lee there would not only be a lot less reloaders and probably shooters, there would also be a lot fewer products on the market.

[rogn]

I have 3 or 4 of the autoprimes , so I have a pair on the bench-LP &SR or LP & SP. Also had one in the range box for bench rest shooting.Tens and thousands of rounds later they are still going strong and are now worked in. So far "0" failures even when loading the oversized Wolf LR primers. The cover stays on with a hairpin clip in one of the slots. I keep a coffee cansized can on the bench and with the tool hndle down in the can I can load primers in the tray, level. When I am finished for the moment the tool hands upside down on the side of the can and primers go no where. Shell holders do need a bit of slop because the cases we work with are not always "precise" and need a bit of wobble to line up. Double feeds, we do need to be thoughtful when using any of these tools There are lemons to be found in every field including Cadilac, MB, BMW, Redding RCBS ad nauseum, But, I find a large majority of the complaints about most equiptment relate to a lack of information, not reading the instructions and following carefully.

[sdt11670]

If you can break an auto prime whilst seating primers, you shouldn't even be reloading!

[sc928porsche]

Quite frankly, I dont understand how so many of you are breaking the lever. You can feel the primer bottom out in the pocket. When it does, stop. There is no need to keep pressing harder on the lever.

On military cartridges, if you use the pocket swedge or ream out the crimp properly, the primers go in without excess pressure on the tool.

I picked mine up in the early seventies after I saw one in use and how much quicker and easier it was to use than the one on the press. I use a little STP on the pivot points and my tool has not worn out or broke. I reload 10k-20k rounds a year with it, so it has seen a lot of service.

[TXGunNut]

I'm guessing there was a time when the lever was not up to snuff. I broke them on a regular basis in normal use so I kept a spare. Last spare had a long wait for deployment, "old" one probably just needed lube, didn't break. They were cheap back then, probably still are. No biggie.
Like previous posters I keep two ready, one each for large and small primers. Can hardly wait to try the new one, will probably keep the old ones for spares.

[FrankenMauser]

Originally Posted by jimbob86

Care to elaborate what, exactly, makes them so bad?

There are many reasons, but I'll keep this short, since the thread is supposed to be about the new Auto Prime.
My biggest issue with the Lee system, is the cutter centering itself in the case mouth. If the case is not concentric and square (mouth is offset, or neck is crooked), the cut is crooked. I have many examples of how this can really ruin your day (and the brass), but this isn't the place for that discussion.

[Uncle Buck]

Mikld wrote:

...most (all?) anti-Lee posts are from someone who had one or two bad experiences with Lee products.

While I do agree that every company (product) can have flaws, your statement strikes me as funny.

How many times do you allow a company to sell you a bad/flawed product before you call it quits? If you were buying hot dogs that were bad, would you go back and get more, just because company XYZ was making them?

Now if you liked Company XYZs other products, and continued to buy them, but avoided the hot dogs, I guess I could understand that.

I have had no problem with my Lee products, nor any of the others I own. I wish they (all reloading companies) would improve their designs some and make the tools a little easier to use.

[GWS]

I wish they (all reloading companies) would improve their designs some and make the tools a little easier to use.

Now there's a statement I totally agree with. No reloading company makes improving changes fast enough for me. Which is why, when an improvement occurs, it is so news worthy.....and very welcome!

Thanks, Lee Precision...and about time!

The next generation of progressive presses is what I'm waiting for. Every press, red, green, or blue, currently enjoy some great and even exclusive features, but none can't be improved...a lot...even the super duper Dillon 1050.

[andrew66]

umm about the lock stud and cutter system: it works great! i just measured all my brass thats been cut and chamfered, and its all +/- .001 with most of it being bang on. Lee products are great, with an even better price. I wish ppl would understand that you dont need high dollar equipment to have the best. I tried to convince my friend to try Lee products, and he wont budge, cause its not (insert high dollar brand name here) I have all Lee products, and the only thing im not a huge fan of is their scale. Only because i cant lock the setting in, so i have to check the setting every charge. Ive used my friends equipment as well, and aside from the scale, i cant notice any difference.
To keep this more on topic, when those priming tools are in stock and not impossible to get here in canada, i fully intend on buying one. Im actually considering ordering directly from Lee.

Just my humble opinion,


andrew

[bedlamite]

I had the lee hand prime, I liked it until I tried the RCBS hand prime. I bought that, sold the lee along with the crappy shell holders, and have never looked back.

[johnjohn]

When the two I have right now wear out I may consider one of those new models.

[Poodleshooter]

I have two AutoPrimes that handle all of my priming needs. I had the RCBS hand prime unit briefly. The plastic feed pieces on mine caused it to become inoperable and jam routinely. It also took twice as long to change primer sizes as the Lee. When it did work,it had a very comfortable feel,and a very strong action since you use your whole hand to seat,rather than just the thumb. However it also crushed primers too deep, as I couldn't seat them to just below flush by "feel" as I can with my Lee.
So far I think I've broken 1 load lever on one of my Lee units,over about 13 years of service. Cost to repair it was maybe $2, so I bought a spare lever,and another $10.99 Lee. Both tools and all of the parts together cost about what the RCBS did.

If Lee simply changed the thumb lever to a steel part, I'd be plenty happy. If they'd changed it to run from regular press shellholders, I think it would be perfect.
The older circular trays worked just fine for me. Remington,CCI and Winchester primers all dump easily into the tray. Only the older big federal primer boxes were ever any trouble.