Shotgun shells

[oneounceload]

Snuffy, I agree with your premises except for one thing - I CAN reload my hulls with top quality stuff for less than the wally world promo loads...it isn't hard when you buy in bulk

[Sphawley]

Can you re-use already shot shells?

[BigJimP]

We've obviously been focused on cost ....when you need more basic info...

Yes, you re-use the hulls ( the outside of the shell ) .....

You buy new Shot (in 25 lb bags), new powder in 1lb, 4lb or 8 lb cannisters, new primers in a pckg of 1,000 / and new Wads usually in bags of 500. (Wads hold the shot inside the shell and separate it from the powder in the base of the shell.)

I reload Remington STS or Remington Nitro hulls ....( and I probably get 20 reloads out of one hull, before it cracks and I toss it out.)

The process of reloading ... you take a spent hull .... and the press resized the brass base, deprimes the spent primer ....then you start over. You seat a new primer in the hull, then drop powder in, then a wad, then shot ---then you re-crimp the top of the hull ( all done on the press).

I'd recommend you do some research on MEC's website .... like this link on the MEC Grabber model reloading press .......it will give you a lot of good general info ( a look at the inside of a shotshell, how the press works, etc ) and give you a feel for what we are discussing ...


http://www.mecreloaders.com/document...nuals/8567.pdf

give the PDF file a chance to fill in all the pages ( like page 2 is a look inside a shotshell, etc ...). The Grabber is a good basic machine / progressive ...but will load a very good shell.

We're primarily talking about "low brass" hulls here / not high brass field loads. You need to pick just one "hull" to keep / and then get a good reloading book ....to understand the recipe's, etc .....

[parttime]

The question was;
Is it worth it?
If you have to ask that question, then it more than likely will not be worth it. I have never entered into a hobby, activity or relationship that hasn't cost me a A LOT more money than if I had never done it! Whether it is building and drag racing cars: Building, flying and competing in remote control model airplanes;Fishing; Hunting and even bowling for that matter. I have only been reloading metalic ammo for a little over a year now. I did not need hand loaded ammo, factory made rounds have worked wonderfully for me over the years and I have harvested A LOT of game with them. In the last year I have spent somewhere in the area of $4,000 for reloading equipment, some of that money I could have spent on taking my wife to the Opera I suppose. I am not a rich man (money wise) by anybody's standards, so that amount of money is A LOT to me. I now shoot thousands of more rounds a year than I used to, which means that I now have more guns, more trips the range, more trips to our hunting shack to practice and learn. All of which adds up to a lot MORE money. Every penny I have spent has been WORTH IT. I can not put a price on what I have learned. I was one of two people who entered into an agreement (hobby) about 40 years ago called a wedding, that has cost me Gazillions money wise but, boy, has it been WORTH IT.

[oneounceload]

Can you re-use already shot shells?

Short answer: yes

Longer answer: It depends..........some are much better to reload than others because they are made to be reloaded and their construction is better. I will venture that ANY hull can be reloaded at least once, but finding published load data for obscure ones might be difficult

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by parttime

…Every penny I have spent has been WORTH IT…

Amen, parttime.
You've expressed the thoughts of most of us.

[blu97]

I reload 12, 16, 20 and 410 ga.

I make my own slugs, 00 buck and 7 1/2 shot,

Can't say I've saved any money, but I had a great time.

[rtpzwms]

let me say savings are a big variable. you can buy new shot or reclaim shot and if you have the time some of our old timers are harvesting shot from the range. all of this has a direct effect on the savings. i've tried all three and when it comes to hitting clays at the trap range i find no difference between the wally world specials and my reloads other than i like the feeling of having done it myself. i will also tell you that cleaning reclaimed shot is a dirty task but i had to try it. i did accidentally find a better way to clean the shot and i shared it with the harvesting group at the range. i dropped some shot when cleaning it the way they said with compressed air in a 5 gallon bucket (one of the guys uses a leaf blower). so i got out my shopvac that i use to keep my work area clean and found that the small rocks were light enough to make it to the canister and the lead was heavy enough to stay in the 15 foot tube. the other fellows tried it with there vacuums some had to modify the hoses but found the same result. its a lot of work but if you want the savings there it is. i use mostly reclaimed bagged lead for what its worth.

[snuffy]

I've tried all three and when it comes to hitting clays at the trap range I find no difference between the wally world specials and my reloads other than I like the feeling of having done it myself.

rtpzwms, it's clear to me that you've never patterned your shotgun. Not to worry most don't do it. If you had, or ever do pattern your shotgun, you'd be real surprised at how awful those cheap bulk-pack wally world shells pattern. They use cheap soft shot and cheap wads, in a hull that either can't be reloaded, or shouldn't.

By pattern, I mean taking a large sheet of paper, hanging it from a stand, then backing up 40 yards, firing at least 5 shots at 5 sheets of paper. Put an aiming point on the target. That will tell you if your shotgun is putting the center of the pattern where you're aiming.

Now look hard at the consistency of the pattern. You will see clumps or clusters of shot surrounded by holes that a target or game could sit in unscathed.

Now look at the SIZE of the pattern. That will tell you how your choke is regulated. Standard shotgun patterns are done at 40 yards, then a 30 inch circle is drawn over the bulk of the pattern. The holes are counted, then subtracted from the amount of shot in your load. Doing a percentage of those 2 numbers, gives you the ACTUAL choke effect. 70% inside a 30 inch circle at 40 yards is a full choke.

Same goes for the reclaimed shot. It gets deformed by the acceleration of firing, and if it happened to hit the hard clay of a target. Round shot flys true, rough, dimpled, deformed shot does NOT.

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by snuffy

Same goes for the reclaimed shot. It gets deformed by the acceleration of firing, and if it happened to hit the hard clay of a target. Round shot flys true, rough, dimpled, deformed shot does NOT.

My club used to sell processed (cleaned, graphited and bagged) reclaimed shot. So folks would have an idea of what it was like, there was a large jar of the stuff at the pro shop. A new shooter looked at the reclaimed and then at some new shot. He commented there was a difference between the two; but, since he didn't reload, it didn't matter to him. Then he produced an el cheapo load and said, as he waved it around, it was good enough and target loads were overpriced.

Before the newbie knew what had happened one of the old boys had taken the shell from him and hand, opened the crimp and poured out the shot. The shot from el cheapo was much less uniform that the reclaimed shot. Much of it looked more cylindrical than spherical. There were comments that it might be floor sweepings from a shot works.

If you're shooting discount shells, you owe it to yourself to open one up. Have a look at what your getting for your money. You may be better off reloading with reclaimed shot.

[noyes]

If you're shooting discount shells, you owe it to yourself to open one up.

O.K.

Wal Mart $4.67 a box of 25 comes in 6, 8, 7.5 shot size

[rtpzwms]

Snuffy again we assume and we find we are WRONG! I have patterned the shotguns that I own. But when I was trained to shot the object was to aim first then fire. 25 is still 25 old shot new shot.... if you pattern new shot and reclaim shot you might find some holes. I know what chokes are for as well. I will try to handicap myself making it more challenging to hit all of the clays When I go to wally world its for Remmington Nitros just for the hulls. I tend do things backwards most want modified choke at 16 yards I'll use a full and go to 20 gauge. And from 27 I'll use a modified on a 12 gauge. I've even considered using a 410 from 16 yard but have not done it yet. To give another thought to the problem I shoot right handed and I'm now trying left handed I will admit I'm not too good as a lefty 60-70%. As you can see I like to challenge myself. I don't know to many switch shooters! The one that inspired this left handed thing; he lost vision in his right eye and now shoots better then most as a lefty!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

Yes, you can. It is almost never worth it. The price of bulk shells is so low, and the cost of equipment is so high that the margin requires you shoot ALOT. I mean, A-L-O-T.

I have to agree with the Pete on this one. I looked into reloading shotgun a year or so back, the numbers just don't work for me. I belong to a gun club with two skeet fields, where I occasionally shoot, maybe ten boxes in the year I've been a member. I also turkey hunt and occasionally bird hunt. While I might shoot a 12-15 boxes of 12 gauge a year, I do know folks who buy ammo by the pallet and/or load their own.

It makes sense for the guys who shoot competitively and whatnot, but for guys like me and Pete it doesn't make sense. I can't/won't buy powder in 8# jugs and I don't need/want 5000 shotgun primers lying around, so buying in bulk doesn't help me.

Having said all that, I will pick up a Lee or a Mec just to play around with, it doesn't make any sense economically, but I would just like to play around with it. I wouldn't deer hunt or trout fish if I had to justify the cost vs. benefits!

[rtpzwms]

Dr Strangelove I agree with you that the can be little or no reward in dollars and cents if you shoot a few boxes a year it might take you 20 years to pay for its self. In shotgun reloading its all about the end product and being able to make it do different things in the pattern. There are some very unique wads out there and I'd like to try them all. I also like loading some slow rounds approx 1000fps and use 7/8 oz of shot and try to catch that bird and I can't find those at wally world or our little local shops. For the most part all you'll get is 1.25 oz at 1100-1300fps. I've had a lot of fun trying different combos and I expect that will continue for a long time to come. I will tell you that you might find enjoyment in doing the work yourself and really isn't that why we have hobbies?

[snuffy]

Quote:
If you're shooting discount shells, you owe it to yourself to open one up.
O.K.

Wal Mart $4.67 a box of 25 comes in 6, 8, 7.5 shot size

So, you're saying, look they're all round and shiny, right? If you're satisfied how they shoot, then I don't see a problem. My point is, those economy grade loads do not have hard shot in them. Hard shot and better hulls cost money. If you want to compare apples to apples, then buy some Federal gold medal shells. Warning, they'll be twice the price! Why? because the gold medal empty can be sold once fired for up to 7 cents apiece.

I just bought 2 boxes of the above mentioned gold medal shells. Over 8 bucks/box! That's the first factory shells I've bought in over ten years. Because I wanted the empties for a special load I make. I may do a test on the difference between the bargain basement shells and the special target shells, like the gold medal. I'll seek out the same game load you bought. Then I'll fire and recover shot from both shells. It SHOULD show the difference between the cheap shells and target.

How? I'll fire at a gallon milk jug full of water, I know the shot won't go all the way through, it'll be laying on the bottom of the empty jug. Then a nice picture like yours will show the harder shot is less damaged by upset of the shot charge and travel down the barrel, through the choke. I might pattern the 2 shells also. I'll need to find some big sheets of paper or cardboard.

[rtpzwms]

Noyes lets just face it you and I will never be right about anything Snuffy knows all. last time I shot a clay I didn't know that I should be concerned with the condition of the shot after the clay dusted. I can learn more and obviously I need to study and read more. I always thought the point of the practice was to dust that little flying object not to run out to the lead field and check to see if my shot was still round! I'll do it better next time now that I know better! So know I wonder how I hit anything with the sun in my eyes and the wind blowing and what do I have to do when the wind changes direction. I guess maybe this is too much for me and maybe I should sell all of my equipment and find something else to do that I might be able to handle. anyone got a pail, shovel and sandbox?

[DG45]

If its not a business, what does it really matter whether it can be done cheaper commercially or not? Its a hobby for some of us, it's a means to an end for some of us, and it's a self-reliance skill for others. For some of us - I include myself in the number - its a sort of communion of the mind with men long gone who we once watched turn their crimps and pour their powder and who in the way they lived their lives defined for us what being a man was all about.

[darkgael]

Since discovering the joys (and frustrations) of Trap shooting, I have found that my understanding of "a lot" has changed. I never did understand how those shooters who can do it shoot 35,000 rounds a year (or more - I remember seeing, a few years ago, a picture of Kim Rhode standing next to a pile of empty hulls that was bigger by far than she is. That was one day's practice.). Didn't understand.
Then I started. Now I can see. I shoot once a week - at this point - and I'm already on a 5000+ per year pace - and I'm a duffer.
I shoot four or five rounds of trap. It takes less than an hour.
If I stayed longer, as many do, or shot more days, as others do.....15K would be easy. So....I don't consider 5K a year a lot any more.
Pete

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by rtpzwms

I've had a lot of fun trying different combos and I expect that will continue for a long time to come. I will tell you that you might find enjoyment in doing the work yourself and really isn't that why we have hobbies?

You're exactly right, and that's why I will get a 12ga loader. I want to load some all brass shells and others, just 'cause I can, and I know it doesn't make any sense economically for me to load them, but I'll have a blast just like I do with my rifle and pistol loads.

[rtpzwms]

Dr Strangelove

Welcome to the DARKSIDE!

The next question is are you loading to shoot or shooting to load? I wish I had an answer to that question!

[noyes]

So, you're saying, look they're all round and shiny, right? If you're satisfied how they shoot, then I don't see a problem. My point is, those economy grade loads do not have hard shot in them. Hard shot and better hulls cost money. If you want to compare apples to apples, then buy some Federal gold medal shells. Warning, they'll be twice the price! Why? because the gold medal empty can be sold once fired for up to 7 cents apiece.

I just bought 2 boxes of the above mentioned gold medal shells. Over 8 bucks/box! That's the first factory shells I've bought in over ten years. Because I wanted the empties for a special load I make. I may do a test on the difference between the bargain basement shells and the special target shells, like the gold medal. I'll seek out the same game load you bought. Then I'll fire and recover shot from both shells. It SHOULD show the difference between the cheap shells and target.

How? I'll fire at a gallon milk jug full of water, I know the shot won't go all the way through, it'll be laying on the bottom of the empty jug. Then a nice picture like yours will show the harder shot is less damaged by upset of the shot charge and travel down the barrel, through the choke. I might pattern the 2 shells also. I'll need to find some big sheets of paper or cardboard.

I thought it sounded like a good ideal that zippy13 came up with "cut open a shell and look inside etc.

It does not matter to me if the loaded shell cost one cent or $5

Me aim shoot and hit what i shoot at . The End. of the target. Me use cheap & worng type of shotgun too. But man , it is Fitted to me.



.

[noyes]

Noyes lets just face it you and I will never be right about anything Snuffy knows all. last time I shot a clay I didn't know that I should be concerned with the condition of the shot after the clay dusted. I can learn more and obviously I need to study and read more. I always thought the point of the practice was to dust that little flying object not to run out to the lead field and check to see if my shot was still round! I'll do it better next time now that I know better! So know I wonder how I hit anything with the sun in my eyes and the wind blowing and what do I have to do when the wind changes direction. I guess maybe this is too much for me and maybe I should sell all of my equipment and find something else to do that I might be able to handle. anyone got a pail, shovel and sandbox?

Hitting the target is what matters. PRACTICE
Keep up the GREAT work rtpzwms

[rtpzwms]

noyes if you want to see strange looks at the trap range go to the line with a 20 inch barrel lever action 12 gauge! I must admit I don't do well with it! Most of the time the comments from our peanut gallery are just cracking me up. I think I've used it twice its just too funny! But its hard to get out of the range when I bring it out everyone is wanting to look at it!

[noyes]

20 inch barrel lever action 12 gauge!

Now I'm jealous , I've been eyeing one of those.

That's a HUGH part of it having FUN.

[snuffy]

Noyes lets just face it you and I will never be right about anything Snuffy knows all.

Okay, I will stop trying to educate you. I do have a life, I just thought the benefit of almost 50 years of loading might be of some use to you. I guess not! I'm through with you and the others that constantly throw what I freely give back in my face!