Just In For FN 5.7 Fans - Page 2

NWCP · March 15, 2007, 03:32 AM

My gut feeling is that the 5.7 will not survive the long haul. Too specialized and too expensive. Will it be a hunting round? Too much competition in the varmint field with a great assortment of loads available in the various calibers. As for self defence if only military and LEO will get the hot ammo what's the point? Besides, unless your typical idiot home invader, or burgler is wearing body armour the round will zip right through said bad guy winding up who knows where doing little, or no major damage. I guess I'm just not enamoured with the round at this point. I would be inclined to buy something in .357 Sig if I was looking for a hotter semi-auto cartridge. As for extra capacity my nines and double stack .45s serve my needs pretty well. Does the 5.7 have what it takes to create a whole new market demand for an as yet unproven round? Only time will tell, but I think time may well be its undoing.

ShipWreck · March 15, 2007, 07:30 AM

No offense, but this is coming from a guy who doesn't own one...

I've seen some tests lately that have changed my mind about the round - one on Glocktalk done by a member there and another in a magazine w/i the past couple of months (no, I don't remember which one).

Now, admittedly, I hope it isn't discontinued in 5-10 years. But, I believe in the round enough if coming thru the PS90 (the rifle gives the extra velocity)

p99guy · March 16, 2007, 08:30 AM

NWCP, after all this time and availible information...you still talk like this round just came out. When in fact its been with us for 18 years now.(tell your gut to take some tums...its just gas)
And its not a specialized armor puncher either. When NATO went shopping for a PDW nothing exsisted like they wanted, FN and HK built cartridges and firearms from the ground up to meet the need. These are for aircrews, MP's and clerk typists(same exact thing the M1 Carbine was made for 60 years ago) and offers simular capabilities. the same people that DONT get issued a full blown assault rifle...but rather a Pistol or pistol caliber SMG(neither of which will deal effectively with a modern equipped infantry soldier from a super power country.
It is of the small caliber /High velocity school of thought and that allows it to shoot through vests/helmets made to stop 9mm pistol and 9mm subgun fire.

The SS190 Ball round is a lightweight version of the SS109/M885 62 grainer
bullet that is fired from the M16 & M249...has the same metal nosecone, just has aluminum for a core instead of lead. which brings down the weight to 30 grains..same physical size though.

It simply bridges the wide gap between being armed with just a pistol, or a full blown 40 inch long assault rifle while you are trying to go about your MOS stringing telephone wire, operating a bulldozer, or flying an Apache.

So its not specialized at all..its todays equevilant M1 carbine...for exactly the same people that would have been issued a M1 carbine in the rear areas
or as a member of a crew served weapon....its just made to protect yourself with.

Syntax360 · March 16, 2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShipWreck

No offense, but this is coming from a guy who doesn't own one...

Why do you guys always toss this argument around? Why on earth would someone buy a weapon system they don't believe in, and why would ownership suddenly make it the greatest thing in the world even though the dismal terminal ballistics are still the same?

On the other hand, I could definitely understand how sinking $1.5-2k on a PS90 might make one run to arms to defend their (ego) decision to buy weapon system better suited for defending against small 4 legged critters and is of extremely limited application.

DPris · March 16, 2007, 01:00 PM

After dickering for over a year with FN's PR agency and FN directly to borrow a carbine, when it never showed & I was repeatedly told "We don't have one we can loan you", I gave up on the thing. They approached me first, and I would have written it up as I found it, had I been able to find it.

I was willing to give it a chance, but it just never materialized and they apparently had no real interest in promoting it. Emphasis here on "They approached me first", and then were apparently unable to do what it took to follow through.
The ammo they did send will probably sit in the basement till my heirs figure out something to do with it. Don't know anybody who has anything they can shoot it in.
As with the Hi-Point carbine, you may find an agency or two who use the FN carbine in this country, but it simply will not be widely accepted for LE use when there are so many better choices for those applications.
That doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that I'm telling anybody not to buy or enjoy one. If you have one & it meets your needs, fine.
Since I was quoted in the resurrection of this old thread, I thought I'd update.
Denis

NukeCop · March 16, 2007, 01:30 PM

To be honest, I'm seeing a lot of, "Well, someone over hear said something good about it". Or the "I read a review in ____________ and they said it performed amazingly". I call BS. When was the last time a gun got a BAD gun review from one of the magazines? Locally, our shop has the pistol in stock at allt imes for about 825-850 i think. The PS90 is quite a bit more. The round looks cool, and the recoil the pistol tames is superb, it's just too specialized for the LE market. For the military, with the proper rounds, I wouldn't mind carrying it into a fight agaisnt folks with armor.

ShipWreck · March 16, 2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

As with the Hi-Point carbine, you may find an agency or two who use the FN carbine in this country, but it simply will not be widely accepted for LE use when there are so many better choices for those applications.

Actually, many swat teams use the full auto P90. The SWAT team the next town over has them. I have heard that Harris Co/Houston had some. The secret service uses them. Many tactical teams have them.

I've also seen some threadson other forums of people hunting with them - taking down deer w/ 1 shot. Not little critters.

Quote:

Why do you guys always toss this argument around?

Because it is a valid argument. It is amazing that the aniti 5.7 don't just post 1 message and leave at that. Many antis go on and on and on and on about it. Jumping on every thread. For people who don't own one, some sure take a super strong interest in tearing the gun and the round down.

I have a PS90 - if I needed it in a self defense situation, I would not hesitate to grab it and use it. I even prefer it to other rifles. It is a great gun.

DPris · March 16, 2007, 05:23 PM

I got into this one originally in response to some very erroneous statements made by one poster.
I got into it again this time because I was quoted from way back in a new post, and figured an update was a legitimate followup. I did try to give the thing a chance, personally.
Again- buy the gun, shoot the gun, sleep with the gun, I don't care.

As I said, you may see some agency use, but it is hardly taking the LE world by storm. In full-auto configuration, even a .22 LR can do horrendous damage (I've shot one & know). But, in semi-auto form, there are more effective calibers for a number of applications.
Enjoy your gun, if you have one.
Denis

March 15, 2007, 03:32 AM	#26
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	My gut feeling is that the 5.7 will not survive the long haul. Too specialized and too expensive. Will it be a hunting round? Too much competition in the varmint field with a great assortment of loads available in the various calibers. As for self defence if only military and LEO will get the hot ammo what's the point? Besides, unless your typical idiot home invader, or burgler is wearing body armour the round will zip right through said bad guy winding up who knows where doing little, or no major damage. I guess I'm just not enamoured with the round at this point. I would be inclined to buy something in .357 Sig if I was looking for a hotter semi-auto cartridge. As for extra capacity my nines and double stack .45s serve my needs pretty well. Does the 5.7 have what it takes to create a whole new market demand for an as yet unproven round? Only time will tell, but I think time may well be its undoing.

March 15, 2007, 07:30 AM	#27
ShipWreck Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,744	No offense, but this is coming from a guy who doesn't own one... I've seen some tests lately that have changed my mind about the round - one on Glocktalk done by a member there and another in a magazine w/i the past couple of months (no, I don't remember which one). Now, admittedly, I hope it isn't discontinued in 5-10 years. But, I believe in the round enough if coming thru the PS90 (the rifle gives the extra velocity)

March 16, 2007, 08:30 AM	#28
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	NWCP, after all this time and availible information...you still talk like this round just came out. When in fact its been with us for 18 years now.(tell your gut to take some tums...its just gas) And its not a specialized armor puncher either. When NATO went shopping for a PDW nothing exsisted like they wanted, FN and HK built cartridges and firearms from the ground up to meet the need. These are for aircrews, MP's and clerk typists(same exact thing the M1 Carbine was made for 60 years ago) and offers simular capabilities. the same people that DONT get issued a full blown assault rifle...but rather a Pistol or pistol caliber SMG(neither of which will deal effectively with a modern equipped infantry soldier from a super power country. It is of the small caliber /High velocity school of thought and that allows it to shoot through vests/helmets made to stop 9mm pistol and 9mm subgun fire. The SS190 Ball round is a lightweight version of the SS109/M885 62 grainer bullet that is fired from the M16 & M249...has the same metal nosecone, just has aluminum for a core instead of lead. which brings down the weight to 30 grains..same physical size though. It simply bridges the wide gap between being armed with just a pistol, or a full blown 40 inch long assault rifle while you are trying to go about your MOS stringing telephone wire, operating a bulldozer, or flying an Apache. So its not specialized at all..its todays equevilant M1 carbine...for exactly the same people that would have been issued a M1 carbine in the rear areas or as a member of a crew served weapon....its just made to protect yourself with.

March 16, 2007, 01:00 PM	#30
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	After dickering for over a year with FN's PR agency and FN directly to borrow a carbine, when it never showed & I was repeatedly told "We don't have one we can loan you", I gave up on the thing. They approached me first, and I would have written it up as I found it, had I been able to find it. I was willing to give it a chance, but it just never materialized and they apparently had no real interest in promoting it. Emphasis here on "They approached me first", and then were apparently unable to do what it took to follow through. The ammo they did send will probably sit in the basement till my heirs figure out something to do with it. Don't know anybody who has anything they can shoot it in. As with the Hi-Point carbine, you may find an agency or two who use the FN carbine in this country, but it simply will not be widely accepted for LE use when there are so many better choices for those applications. That doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that I'm telling anybody not to buy or enjoy one. If you have one & it meets your needs, fine. Since I was quoted in the resurrection of this old thread, I thought I'd update. Denis

March 16, 2007, 01:30 PM	#31
NukeCop Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: North Dakota Posts: 151	To be honest, I'm seeing a lot of, "Well, someone over hear said something good about it". Or the "I read a review in ____________ and they said it performed amazingly". I call BS. When was the last time a gun got a BAD gun review from one of the magazines? Locally, our shop has the pistol in stock at allt imes for about 825-850 i think. The PS90 is quite a bit more. The round looks cool, and the recoil the pistol tames is superb, it's just too specialized for the LE market. For the military, with the proper rounds, I wouldn't mind carrying it into a fight agaisnt folks with armor.

March 16, 2007, 05:23 PM	#33
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	I got into this one originally in response to some very erroneous statements made by one poster. I got into it again this time because I was quoted from way back in a new post, and figured an update was a legitimate followup. I did try to give the thing a chance, personally. Again- buy the gun, shoot the gun, sleep with the gun, I don't care. As I said, you may see some agency use, but it is hardly taking the LE world by storm. In full-auto configuration, even a .22 LR can do horrendous damage (I've shot one & know). But, in semi-auto form, there are more effective calibers for a number of applications. Enjoy your gun, if you have one. Denis