Reloading Hacks - Page 2

JeepHammer · December 8, 2016, 01:04 PM

MG,
There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame.

And in my 'Opinion' the ram should be LARGER on these presses.
Larger/Harder ram, less deflection.
(Not really an opinion, simply a fact of presses)

One 'Trick' is to keep the shell holder you use WITH THE DIE SET that cranks out accurate cases...
Everyone accumulates shell holders of different thicknesses, different brands, etc. and playing 'Mix & Match' with shell holders is the all time beat way to wind up making brass, out of the exact same die you used the last time, that doesn't come lose to what you bent 'The Last Time'.

I wish someone would come up with a LAMINATED, over built press frame,
Welded laminate being stronger/less deflection than a cast aluminum or steel frame,

BIG diameter ram, LONG bore support for the ram,
Press pin bearings or at least bushing in the frame for the ram (rebuildable),

bfoosh006 · December 8, 2016, 01:49 PM

Got a single stage press ? .... Get a case kicker...saves you a step every pull.

https://inlinefabrication.com/collec...ejector-system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udkieyxl2Fk

50 shooter · December 8, 2016, 01:51 PM

Jeep,
Have you ever looked at the Hollywood Presses? Pretty much what you described, the senior press for the .50 is massive but so are their other presses. You can let the turret spin freely or use the lock rod to do single loading. When the rod is in place it keeps the turret from deflecting even the smallest amount.

Not sure if they are still in business but you can find them on eBay from time to time. Not cheap either as people tend to snap them up when they get posted.

jmorris · December 8, 2016, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Everyone accumulates shell holders of different thicknesses, different brands, etc. and playing 'Mix & Match' with shell holders is the all time beat way to wind up making brass, out of the exact same die you used the last time, that doesn't come lose to what you bent 'The Last Time'.

A non issue with the CO-AX.

Metal god · December 8, 2016, 06:12 PM

I have an "O" ring press but the issue with mine is the linkage detween the ram and handle . That's where i believe i get most of my deflection/stretch . The comp shell holders seemed like a better fix for me then looking for a beefier press . I helped a few guys out now that have had different types of presses . The comp shell holders solved the problem of inconsistent case sizing with all of them . These presses include the Hornady lnl , rock chucker and T-7 turret press .

JeepHammer · December 8, 2016, 10:10 PM

The biggest issue I see today is 'Cheap' vs. 'One size fits nothing'...
You get what you pay for, and lately you don't even get what you pay for in some cases.

I built what I call a 'Rotary' press a few years back, should have fine tuned it.
Used what you could describe as a 'Camshaft' lobe, and a roller 'lifter' on the bottom of the ram...
Just a bearing built into the ram to ride the cam lobe.
Just spin the handle once per case, worked almost like a pin press.

Punched out great brass, but I never came up with a good way to stop the crank wheel after one revolution.
It REALLY made those tapered cases easier to deal with, momentum in the wheel would stamp out the most stubborn cases.

I think Dillon is headed in the right direction with the larger, more rigid ram, but I'd also like to see some tool steel arms,
And I'm aware that a cast steel frame (tempered) would cost $500 alone, but if I could get one I would...

I put a 0.003" last word indicator on a 'Red' 'O Ring' press not expecting to see anything, maxed out the 0.003" indicator trying to resize older military US .30 brass!
That was the deciding factor in starting my search for annealing correctly,
Even being aluminum, that press shouldn't have been getting stretched more than 0.003" each time I sized something...

I don't size ANYTHING on aluminum anymore,
I'll load on aluminum, but not size on aluminum.

JeepHammer · December 8, 2016, 11:34 PM

50 Shooter,
I watched a buddy of mine pump out $1,700 to 'Hollywood', wait 7 months to get another 5 months of grief from them over defective products.

He had me explain to the 'Tech' guy, which owns the place, about what wasn't working and why (I'm a machinest & gun smith),
The guy on the phone must have altheimers or something because he couldn't follow simple, common details & kept changing the subject...
At one point trying to tell me how he intends to 'heat treat' plastics!

There is no way I would ever do business with a place that treated people like they treated him.
He finally sold it on eBay and got a Dillon. One & Done from Dillon.

jmorris · December 9, 2016, 11:59 PM

Quote:

I built what I call a 'Rotary' press a few years back, should have fine tuned it.
Used what you could describe as a 'Camshaft' lobe, and a roller 'lifter' on the bottom of the ram...

I put this one together that used an eccentric to convert rotary to linear motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ieGYpdr9I

JeepHammer · December 10, 2016, 12:29 PM

Mr. Morris,
That is a connecting rod press.

308Loader · December 10, 2016, 01:14 PM

Lots of good stuff here, good post. Welcome to TFL. I too am a beginner and have found this place to be a great resource for information. It is hard to tease the most fruitful methods out of a metallic cartage reloading handbook. People that have more experience than us are a great resource.

I agree that the term "hack" refers to a short cut not otherwise used in the normal processes of things. One should never put absolute trust on the word of another, until it is an empirically proven result (tested 6 ways to Sunday).

Again thanks to the community for a good read.

jmorris · December 11, 2016, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Mr. Morris,
That is a connecting rod press.

You now have my attention, can you post photos or maybe a video of your rotary press.

Would be interesting to see one that works off of rotary motion alone without any linear movement.

JeepHammer · December 11, 2016, 12:53 PM

Lanier motion ones from ram riding a cam lobe.
Took return springs is the reason I gave up on it.

F. Guffey · December 12, 2016, 07:54 AM

Quote:

I've heard little tricks like a dryer sheet in your tumbler to reduce dust.

I have heard about the dryer sheet in the tumbler; problem, I could not remember why. When I tumble cases I use tumble median and nothing and I was thinking there was nothing about the dryer sheet that was abrasive and again I use tumbler media and nothing and I do not want to use anything that dampens the effect of the media rubbing the case.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · December 12, 2016, 07:56 AM

Flat rate: Flat rate was replace by 'hack'.

F. Guffey

jmorris · December 12, 2016, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Lanier motion ones from ram riding a cam lobe.
Took return springs is the reason I gave up on it.

Oh, I see you think something is not rotary because there is a link that constraints its maximum movement that is not a spring.

I was looking at it in terms of motion to complete a "stroke" not unlike a rotary engine, just without all of the extra movement provided by the gears.

F. Guffey · December 12, 2016, 08:40 AM

Quote:

There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame.

And in my 'Opinion' the ram should be LARGER on these presses.
Larger/Harder ram, less deflection.
(Not really an opinion, simply a fact of presses)

I have 'O', 'U' and 'C' presses. I must have 11 presses that use the same ram. No, that does not mean I have 11 presses with one ram. All 11 presses are cam over presses; in the old days the instructions identified the cam over press as a 'bump press' and now reloaders have mastered the art of the .002" bump?

Question: Am I going to be required to call all of my 'O' presses 'O' ring presses. I have C presses, long before the Internet there were curious reloaders, a few of them decided the open side of the 'C' press allowed for deflection so they added a strap on the open side of the press. Not long after that Herter made a 'C' press with an option to close the open side.

They also developed the 'triple web' C3 and the Super 3 with the open side, the open side kept the 'C' press from being an 'O' press. And then there is that part about the ram.

Quote:

There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame.

Reloaders are so preoccupied with neck tension, not so much in the old days. In the old days they tested presses with tension gages, deflection gages and strain gages. That is how they determined the open C press was not as strong as the O press, my 2 favorite presses for less deflection are the U and 2 ram Herter.

I know, RCBS made an O press called the A-2. I did a shop call, seems the smith insisted it was the toughest press in the world, he raised the top of the press .017" while attempting to size cases; BUMP? He was trying to wreck them. I suggested he should have know there was something wrong when lowering the ram he had to brace himself with one foot against the bench. I know; there are so many of you that are confused and that is OK.

They actually tested presses in the old days, in one of my books that gave test results listed a press that was a total failure; and then one day I was at a flea market near NAPA, California; there it was, a dealer was selling commercial kitchen equipment; he had mounted a press on one of his tables, a press he thought was a lemon squeezer/juicer. I never convinced him it was a reloading press, I did convince him he had it mounted upside down for a juicer. The press looked like a spider doing push ups when putting it through its paces. Anyhow I purchased it for $5.00 because he could not figure out how the press could catch lemon juice while it was upside down and then he was missing the part that screwed into the press for squeezing and the bowl was missing.

F. Guffey

JeepHammer · December 12, 2016, 10:12 AM

No Mr. Morris, I was simply pointing out I had a less than successful attempt at building a rotary press, for a specific case type. Lost interest and chucked it in the barn.

I might also point out that a 'Stroke' is a one way linear movement, as in 'Up' stroke or 'Down' stroke, 'In' stroke or 'Out' stroke.
A direction of force change has to happen, complete stop, reversal of force to complete a 'Cycle'.

Using an offset journal and circular bearing with connecting rod, I could have made a 'Crank' instead of a simple 'Eccentric'.
I didn't want to put that much time/money into the build, having lost interest in the firearm/cases I was working with at the time.

jmorris · December 12, 2016, 12:59 PM

I think we might be using different definitions.

Quote:

Eccentric:
...
a disc or wheel mounted eccentrically on a revolving shaft in order to transform rotation into backward-and-forward motion

And that's all they are.

Or https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8

JTReloader · December 12, 2016, 02:23 PM

I get the idea of having a rotary press, especially if you're needing to pump out thousands every weekend. However, where's the fun in reloading now? Not to mention, you best watch it because of something goes wrong you're screwed. For example, powder measure stops working or is dumping half a charge then you come back from dinner and there's 500 rounds in a bin that appear loaded but are really a disaster.

jmorris · December 12, 2016, 02:54 PM

Having one that blindly cranks away would be a very bad idea.

This is how I set up my first one but it isn't rotary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

F. Guffey · December 12, 2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Lanier motion ones from ram riding a cam lobe.
Took return springs is the reason I gave up on it.

Took return springs? Many years ago I was at an airport when I noticed the prop of an airplane was attached to the engine and the airplane was attached where the propeller should be. I was told to leave it as it is because by doing it their way they did not need springs to close the valves. And then there was this helicopter, I ask the people at Hughes Air Craft how do they get away without a tail rotor. I wanted to know how they off set torque. And then one day I was at Lockeed/Martin doing some Univac work, I was waiting for them so I took a walk and saw something I did not know existed. When I came back I explained to them they were not going to believe what I just saw; I was wrong because they were very interested in what I was not supposed to see. I explained to them I saw this little jet rolling down the taxi way and then it suddenly took on VTO characters and disappeared. Many years later I found information on a small jet they were working on called the Hummingbird. They had two, one crashed due to pilot error.

F. Guffey

mkl · December 13, 2016, 02:24 PM

Getting back to the OP's question, here's one:

To rapidly lube straight wall handgun cases, drop 50 or so in a gallon plastic bag. Spray in a 2-second shot of an aerosol case lube such as Hornady One Shot and twist the top of the bag closed. Shake the bag vigorously for 15 seconds or so. Dump the cases out on a rag or towel and let thoroughly dry.

Lube job done!

Note: I do not recommend using a spray lube for bottle neck (rifle) cases.

dahermit · December 13, 2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:

To rapidly lube straight wall handgun cases, drop 50 or so in a gallon plastic bag. Spray in a 2-second shot of an aerosol case lube such as Hornady One Shot and twist the top of the bag closed. Shake the bag vigorously for 15 seconds or so. Dump the cases out on a rag or towel and let thoroughly dry.

If one is so economically challenged that they cannot afford even Lee Carbide Dies, that would be the way to go with straight wall cases. But, I was under the impression that Carbide sizing dies had pretty much taken over in the sizing dept.

Nevertheless, I am going to try this the next time (I have been spraying them standing in a loading block...messy!) I do some .30 Carbine cases inasmuch as it is recommended that lube be used despite using a carbide sizer.

Metal god · December 13, 2016, 04:00 PM

Oh yes spraying them in a bag works good . I generally use a plastic tub and mix them around with my hand . This way I let them dry in the tub as well as size from the tub . I should add that I only lube rifle cases and not my pistol cases .

mkl · December 13, 2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:

But, I was under the impression that Carbide sizing dies had pretty much taken over in the sizing dept.

You are correct. But many of us older reloaders still have the steel dies that require some lube. And prefer them.

First, many if not most of the older steel dies put a very slight taper to the entire cartridge case which made insertion insertion into a chamber very reliable.

Second, the carbide ring is very fragile and has been known to slightly crack and leave a gouge on the case.

Lastly, some of the straight wall cases are not really straight wall (your 30 carbine for example -- 0.3567 at base and 0.3360 at mouth) and may benefit from a die that follows the original factory case dimensions. Carbide dies will only give one diameter to the case.

December 8, 2016, 01:51 PM	#28
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 987	Jeep, Have you ever looked at the Hollywood Presses? Pretty much what you described, the senior press for the .50 is massive but so are their other presses. You can let the turret spin freely or use the lock rod to do single loading. When the rod is in place it keeps the turret from deflecting even the smallest amount. Not sure if they are still in business but you can find them on eBay from time to time. Not cheap either as people tend to snap them up when they get posted. __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

December 8, 2016, 06:12 PM	#30
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,878	I have an "O" ring press but the issue with mine is the linkage detween the ram and handle . That's where i believe i get most of my deflection/stretch . The comp shell holders seemed like a better fix for me then looking for a beefier press . I helped a few guys out now that have had different types of presses . The comp shell holders solved the problem of inconsistent case sizing with all of them . These presses include the Hornady lnl , rock chucker and T-7 turret press . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

December 8, 2016, 10:10 PM	#31
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	The biggest issue I see today is 'Cheap' vs. 'One size fits nothing'... You get what you pay for, and lately you don't even get what you pay for in some cases. I built what I call a 'Rotary' press a few years back, should have fine tuned it. Used what you could describe as a 'Camshaft' lobe, and a roller 'lifter' on the bottom of the ram... Just a bearing built into the ram to ride the cam lobe. Just spin the handle once per case, worked almost like a pin press. Punched out great brass, but I never came up with a good way to stop the crank wheel after one revolution. It REALLY made those tapered cases easier to deal with, momentum in the wheel would stamp out the most stubborn cases. I think Dillon is headed in the right direction with the larger, more rigid ram, but I'd also like to see some tool steel arms, And I'm aware that a cast steel frame (tempered) would cost $500 alone, but if I could get one I would... I put a 0.003" last word indicator on a 'Red' 'O Ring' press not expecting to see anything, maxed out the 0.003" indicator trying to resize older military US .30 brass! That was the deciding factor in starting my search for annealing correctly, Even being aluminum, that press shouldn't have been getting stretched more than 0.003" each time I sized something... I don't size ANYTHING on aluminum anymore, I'll load on aluminum, but not size on aluminum. Last edited by JeepHammer; December 8, 2016 at 10:19 PM.

December 10, 2016, 01:14 PM	#35
308Loader Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2014 Location: Minnesota Posts: 639	Lots of good stuff here, good post. Welcome to TFL. I too am a beginner and have found this place to be a great resource for information. It is hard to tease the most fruitful methods out of a metallic cartage reloading handbook. People that have more experience than us are a great resource. I agree that the term "hack" refers to a short cut not otherwise used in the normal processes of things. One should never put absolute trust on the word of another, until it is an empirically proven result (tested 6 ways to Sunday). Again thanks to the community for a good read. __________________ Just a dude with stuff.

December 12, 2016, 10:12 AM	#42
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	No Mr. Morris, I was simply pointing out I had a less than successful attempt at building a rotary press, for a specific case type. Lost interest and chucked it in the barn. I might also point out that a 'Stroke' is a one way linear movement, as in 'Up' stroke or 'Down' stroke, 'In' stroke or 'Out' stroke. A direction of force change has to happen, complete stop, reversal of force to complete a 'Cycle'. Using an offset journal and circular bearing with connecting rod, I could have made a 'Crank' instead of a simple 'Eccentric'. I didn't want to put that much time/money into the build, having lost interest in the firearm/cases I was working with at the time. Last edited by JeepHammer; December 12, 2016 at 10:26 AM.

December 8, 2016, 01:04 PM	#26
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	MG, There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame. And in my 'Opinion' the ram should be LARGER on these presses. Larger/Harder ram, less deflection. (Not really an opinion, simply a fact of presses) One 'Trick' is to keep the shell holder you use WITH THE DIE SET that cranks out accurate cases... Everyone accumulates shell holders of different thicknesses, different brands, etc. and playing 'Mix & Match' with shell holders is the all time beat way to wind up making brass, out of the exact same die you used the last time, that doesn't come lose to what you bent 'The Last Time'. I wish someone would come up with a LAMINATED, over built press frame, Welded laminate being stronger/less deflection than a cast aluminum or steel frame, BIG diameter ram, LONG bore support for the ram, Press pin bearings or at least bushing in the frame for the ram (rebuildable),

December 8, 2016, 01:49 PM	#27
bfoosh006 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 1,089	Got a single stage press ? .... Get a case kicker...saves you a step every pull. https://inlinefabrication.com/collec...ejector-system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udkieyxl2Fk

December 8, 2016, 11:34 PM	#32
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	50 Shooter, I watched a buddy of mine pump out $1,700 to 'Hollywood', wait 7 months to get another 5 months of grief from them over defective products. He had me explain to the 'Tech' guy, which owns the place, about what wasn't working and why (I'm a machinest & gun smith), The guy on the phone must have altheimers or something because he couldn't follow simple, common details & kept changing the subject... At one point trying to tell me how he intends to 'heat treat' plastics! There is no way I would ever do business with a place that treated people like they treated him. He finally sold it on eBay and got a Dillon. One & Done from Dillon.

December 10, 2016, 12:29 PM	#34
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	Mr. Morris, That is a connecting rod press.

December 11, 2016, 12:53 PM	#37
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	Lanier motion ones from ram riding a cam lobe. Took return springs is the reason I gave up on it.

December 12, 2016, 07:56 AM	#39
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Flat rate: Flat rate was replace by 'hack'. F. Guffey

December 12, 2016, 02:23 PM	#44
JTReloader Member Join Date: December 3, 2016 Posts: 17	I get the idea of having a rotary press, especially if you're needing to pump out thousands every weekend. However, where's the fun in reloading now? Not to mention, you best watch it because of something goes wrong you're screwed. For example, powder measure stops working or is dumping half a charge then you come back from dinner and there's 500 rounds in a bin that appear loaded but are really a disaster.

December 12, 2016, 02:54 PM	#45
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Having one that blindly cranks away would be a very bad idea. This is how I set up my first one but it isn't rotary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

December 13, 2016, 02:24 PM	#47
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Quick way to lube handgun cases Getting back to the OP's question, here's one: To rapidly lube straight wall handgun cases, drop 50 or so in a gallon plastic bag. Spray in a 2-second shot of an aerosol case lube such as Hornady One Shot and twist the top of the bag closed. Shake the bag vigorously for 15 seconds or so. Dump the cases out on a rag or towel and let thoroughly dry. Lube job done! Note: I do not recommend using a spray lube for bottle neck (rifle) cases.

December 13, 2016, 04:00 PM	#49
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,878	Oh yes spraying them in a bag works good . I generally use a plastic tub and mix them around with my hand . This way I let them dry in the tub as well as size from the tub . I should add that I only lube rifle cases and not my pistol cases . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .