New guy, help please!!

[Rford09]

I have looked at the hornady loading manual, and i dont feel like i gained anything. All of the information that they are giving you in the manaul is all for hornady bullets
The information that i am looking for is what the OAL is supposed to be, and will this vary from bullet to bullet? The powder weight info that i got is from hodgens specifically for titegroup, wich is what i am using.
So what am I overlooking?

[jimbob86]

Most reloading manuals have a pretty complete "how to" section, including the Hornady 5th ed. set I have ...... they also go into a lot of the "why" in the "how to" to help you understand what you are doing......


..... read my sig-line.

Figure out what you are doing before somebody gets hurt.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Don't get us wrong, we are NOT ganging up on you. We just want you to FULLY understand what the process of handloading entails. Being unsure about basic reloading steps can normally be cleared up by reading at least 2 manuals. If you are still unsure about the reloading process after the 2 manuals, then come to the forum and use the search function at the top of the screen. Chances are any questions you may still have probably have been asked before.

If you are unsure about ANY single step in the reloading process, don't load anything and certainly don't fire them.

Good luck!

[Rford09]

I understand what you are saying, and although i havent sat down and read the manual that i have from cover to cover. I have done a lot of looking around and reading, both in the manual and online. But it seems like every source is a little different,and the manual that i have (hornady 8th edition) seems like nothing more than a 900 page advertisment for their bullets.
So what do you guys refer to? And is it different from bullet type, and manufacture. I.E. flat nose to round nose, berrys to hornadys?

[mehavey]

Three questions before we go further:

1. You are shooting this bullet, yes?



2. Do you have an inertial bullet puller?



3. Do you have a set of calipers?

[Rford09]

Yes that is the bullet
No bullet puller
Yes on the calipers

[mehavey]

Well, we're going to waste a couple of bullets and cases, but no matter.

Question 4: Of your previously loaded cartridges, do you know what the diameter of the case mouth came to be after you'd finished loading/seating/crimping?

Qu,estion 5: Have you pulled the barrel out of the 1911 and used it as a case gauge to ascertain whether your loaded cartridges will pass the "plunk" test?

[Rford09]

I dont have the data, but i checked them and they were within .003.
No i havent pulled the barrel. Whats the plunk test

[Uncle Buck]

One of the reasons your primers might not have gone off was they were not seated correctly.

Welcome to TFL reloading forum. These guys will figure out what is happening with your load pretty quick. Safety being their first priority, they have helped many to get the process down.

[mehavey]

I dont have the data, but i checked them and they were within .003.
No i havent pulled the barrel. Whats the plunk test.

"...within 0.003..." of what? Your case mouth diameter after loading is critical. (We're not talking overall cartridge length here yet.)

Two factors enter into the Plunk Test:

1. The diameter of the mouth after seating and crimping adjustment should be between 0.469 and 0.471 (or so). This ensures the diameter of the case does not interfere with the chamber walls to prevent the case from seating easily and the slide closing fully.

2. The bullet must also be seated just deep enough that the bullet itself does not hit/interfere w/ the rifling before seating fully in the chamber -- and preventing the slide from closing fully.

When both of these conditions are met, the loaded round passes the "plunk" test when using the disassembled barrel as a gauge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdJLNox1hpk

(Perfect 'Plunk' at exactly 1:59)

[Rford09]

I meant ther was a +/- of .003 when reading the diameter of the bullet from the mouth to the base.
I will have to try the plunk test tommorow

[mehavey]

45 ACP is a very straightforward cartridge to load. But these two factors -- sufficient bullet seating depth to clear hitting the rifling; and case mouth diameter after final taper crimp -- are critical.

The Plunk Test lets you know if you pass both criteria.
The rest is easy.

.

[Rford09]

OK so I stepped back today and pretty much started from scratch.
I reread the whole manual that came with the press
Reset all the dies
scanned over the Hornady manual that I have
Read a lot of stuff online
A friend of mind that has been reloading for a few years stopped over and checked out my set-up

so heres what I got
5 grains of titegroup
CCI Primers
185 grain berrys bullets
once fired sonic cleaned brass
OAL of 1.24- this is the only thing that i am not positive about

I am going to order another manual or two. Any recomendations?
Could someone with a manual maybe give me a idea of what the OAL should be? Right now I am going off a post I found online, I would rather see something in writing.

I want to attach a picture but it's too large.

[Mal H]

An OAL of 1.24" is about right for that bullet. The LaserCast Reloading Manual suggests 1.25" for a similar bullet, and the Midway Loadmap tends to agree for a lead bullet of that weight.

As for manuals, my first suggestion would be to get the current Lyman Reloading Handbook. The first few chapters are an excellent guide to reloading in general, and the load data has considerably more variety than the individual bullet/powder manufacturers manuals.

If you have a photo that might help clear up some of the confusion, but it won't load here (have you tried photobucket.com), and you don't have an image resizing program (irfanview.com is a good one) you can email it to me and I'll resize it and post it. Send it to [email protected]

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

so heres what I got

From what I've read in your current post. (#38) I don't see a problem with the 1. 24 O.A.L measurement. With 5-grs of titegroup you should be in the ball park on it's powder charge too.

Prior to going to your gun range. Load one or two rounds in your press set up as it is now with its 1.240 O.A.L seating length. Pull the barrel out of your pistol and do the Punk Test on your barrels chamber with those two newly reloaded rounds. If by chance your reloaded shells again don't sit properly in its chamber or have a reasonably loose fitting feeling while fully chambered in the barrel. Try reducing your O.A.L. to 1.200 even.

Do the Punk test again and see if the O.A.L of 1.200 improves your cartridges chamber fit.
To get the 1.200 seating measurement.> Just screw the dies (Seating Stem threaded rod down just a little) is all it takes. Re-load a couple of cartridges and then re-measure your completed cartridge O.A.L. with your caliper again.

Be prepared to accept that it might take a few rounds of reloading to get to that perfect measurement of 1.200. Do not change or move your dies large threaded ring or nut during this process.

Come and tell us what you discovered. Well go from there and try to help you out again if need be Rford09. Good Luck SSMcG

[mehavey]

Going back to your first post:

My dad fired 10, all of them fired but 4, of those 4, 3 of them had them had the bullet come off and stay in the barrel.

Let me get this straight.

Four cartridges

"...did not fire."

Which of these does that mean:

1. The hammer fell and the primer did not go off ?
2. The hammer fell, the primer went off, but the powder did not burn ?
3. The hammer would not fall at all ? (trigger didn't work)

"...had the bullet come off and stay in the barrel."

Does that mean when you tried to eject the cartridge that "...did not fire," the bullet pulled from the case and stayed in the gun? (dumping unburned powder in the action)

If the latter, (and #3 above that), we know exactly what's wrong.

[Uncle Buck]

I took the post to read the bullet came of of the cartridge with-out the powder igniting.

I would think this would be caused by no crimp. A high primer would also cause a failure to fire.

The OAL seems correct like everyone has mentioned. Maybe if was actually a little longer than thought it could get stuck in the barrel when it was chambered?

Sometimes a die, if not set correctly, can back off once a few rounds are produced. I have a set of Lee dies that do this with my .357 Mag. if I am not paying attention to how I set them.

If the crimp is not tight enough, could the recoil from the gun cause the bullets to back out of the case, increasing the C.O.A.L? I have heard of this happening, but have never experienced it.

What type of brass are you using (Manufacturer)? Is it possible it has a crimped primer hole and the crimp was not removed? I have three pieces of .45 ACP brass here that were given to me that had a crimp.

[CrustyFN]

When you finish a round you should be able to push the bullet against some wooden object with your thumb and the bullet shouldn't move, if it does the crimp is to loose.

If you have bad case tension you are either over flairing the case or have a sizing die issue. You can't fix bad case tension with crimp.

[dsb1829]

My initial response is exactly what Bossman put down

Honestly reloading is not complicated, but there are a lot of variables which make it confusing out of the gate for a new reloader.

Key issues I get from your posts:
- primers not igniting (the case should be held by the extractor, did the cases extract normally?, could be a firing pin issue with the gun?)
- bullets moving freely in completed rounds (do the bench/thumb test to confirm you have correct case tension, crimp should be minimal)
- measurements, really COAL and diameter are all you need to measure (for 45acp I put enough crimp so the calipers can slide off the bullet end of the completed cartridge with no increase in diameter over the length of bullet seat)


Reading will answer some questions. Dies should have some documentation on how to set them, that is also good to read.

[Mal H]

Here is the image Rford09 sent:



Those look pretty good to me, but it's hard to see what kind of crimp they have.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Here is the image Rford09 sent:

Boy those cartridges look pretty darn good to me too. Don't see no flair sticking out. Tight looking case mouth crimp. Proper height maybe. If these don't work. I'll take'em.

Post script: Thanks Mal H

[Rford09]

Sorry I am just now getting back, been a busy weekend.
When I say that the round did not fire, I mean the trigger pulled, the hammer fell and nothing happen. The primer didn't go off and the powder didn't burn. I think what happen was the the bullet came off the brass as the round was chambering. I think.
The brass is all mixed, federal, Winchester, blazer, and some Speer.
I performed the plunk test using the barrell from my S&W the rounds all the rounds fit in there real nice and are flush with with the top of the barrel.
Hopefully I am going to the range and will see how these function.

Thanks for all the help

Rob

[jimbob86]

I mean the trigger pulled, the hammer fell and nothing happen. The primer didn't go off

Was the primer dented? - Did the firing pin hit it?

[Rford09]

Don't think so

[jimbob86]

Was the primer dented? - Did the firing pin hit it?

Don't think so

That would be the first thing I'd look for if I got a click instead of a bang......

Rounds that did not go bang: describe them.