33 WCF

ligonierbill · August 12, 2023, 12:56 PM

Thought I'd check with you folks to see if anyone can save me some time on developing a load. I picked up a very nice 1886 this morning, and I have dies, brass (Bertram), and bullets (200 Hawk FP). I also ordered a Lee factory crimp die, as Hawk is a bit inconsistent with their cannelure. Other than cast, which I might do, the only other bullet out there is Hornady's FTX intended for the 338 Marlin Express. That's on the "inform me" list at a couple vendors. Original factory loads went 2,200, and up to 2,400 is reported with modern powders.

QuickLOAD says I can get 2,400 with several medium burn rate powders and stay well within spec. But I'm only good to 150, maybe 200 with irons, so I've no reason to push it. Any advice?

Jim Watson · August 12, 2023, 01:08 PM

I had one for a while but all I did was load cast bullets for SASS Rifle Caliber Lever Action side matches.

mehavey · August 12, 2023, 01:59 PM

See https://chuckhawks.com/33_WCF.htm

ligonierbill · August 13, 2023, 03:52 AM

Thanks, I saw that writeup. It's interesting that Winchester came out with the 33 and 35 at about the same time (1902-03) and then pretty much dropped the 33 bore until 1958, while issuing a number of 35s. My 1886 was made in 1906, my 1895 (35 WCF) in 1907. A hunter had a pretty good choice of lever guns in those days.

Loading the 33 WCF appears straightforward. What ever happened to the 338 Marlin? I'd completely forgotten about it.

Dillonhelp · August 15, 2023, 12:10 PM

Hornady made a 200 grain jacketed flat point bullet in the 1970s, and published load data in the 2nd edition Hornady manual.

Bob Willman · August 15, 2023, 01:20 PM

I also have an 86 in 33WCF and a 95 in 35WCF. I have not loaded for either one in some time and my records were lost in a fire in 1995. My father-in-law used the 86 during deer season and I carried the 95 one year in Pennsylvania. If memory serves, I think I used 200 gr RN for the 33 and 250 gr bullets for the 35. Probably Winchester, Hornady, Remington or Speer brands in the 1980s and powder like 3031 or 4064. It has been a long time.

NRA Benefactor

ligonierbill · August 15, 2023, 04:20 PM

Dillonhelp, I found that edition stashed away. Gives me a starting point. Bob, I load 250s over IMR-3031 for the '95. Luckily, Ken Waters was a fan and wrote a good article about it. But I’ve never seen anything by him on the 33. We'll get a data point tomorrow when I try a starter load.

ligonierbill · August 18, 2023, 05:44 AM

Initial run with a modest load of Re-15.5 yielded 2,115/15 Std. COL 2.77 (where Hawk puts their cannelure when they have one - not always) cycles fine. Should be no problem to get 2,200 without approaching spec MAP, at least according to QuickLOAD. I put together a progression to achieve that. First time I tried a Lee factory crimp die, and it works very well. Guess that Hornady .338 FTX has been discontinued.

ligonierbill · August 30, 2023, 07:10 AM

The old Winchester is sending 200 gr Hawk bullets at 2,256/7.4, so now all I need to do is adapt my old eyes to buckhorn sights. Do not like them, but this old rifle is not to be modified. At least it is pleasant to shoot. Same session I ran some 250 gr Speer Hot Core through the 1895. They run the same 2,200 as the Hornady, and beat me up just the same.

ballardw · August 30, 2023, 10:28 AM

Have you considered a tang sight? Such as https://www.lymanproducts.com/the-ly...o-2-tang-sight

Better sight picture plus finer elevation adjustment.
No actual change to the rifle, just uses different screws through the tang so can be returned to original condition easily.

ligonierbill · August 30, 2023, 11:41 AM

Good suggestion. I have tang mounted apertures on a couple rifles. I'll work with the current sight for now, at least until it gets me saying unkind things.

August 12, 2023, 12:56 PM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	33 WCF Thought I'd check with you folks to see if anyone can save me some time on developing a load. I picked up a very nice 1886 this morning, and I have dies, brass (Bertram), and bullets (200 Hawk FP). I also ordered a Lee factory crimp die, as Hawk is a bit inconsistent with their cannelure. Other than cast, which I might do, the only other bullet out there is Hornady's FTX intended for the 338 Marlin Express. That's on the "inform me" list at a couple vendors. Original factory loads went 2,200, and up to 2,400 is reported with modern powders. QuickLOAD says I can get 2,400 with several medium burn rate powders and stay well within spec. But I'm only good to 150, maybe 200 with irons, so I've no reason to push it. Any advice?

August 30, 2023, 10:28 AM	#10
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,419	Have you considered a tang sight? Such as https://www.lymanproducts.com/the-ly...o-2-tang-sight Better sight picture plus finer elevation adjustment. No actual change to the rifle, just uses different screws through the tang so can be returned to original condition easily. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

August 12, 2023, 01:08 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,614	I had one for a while but all I did was load cast bullets for SASS Rifle Caliber Lever Action side matches.

August 12, 2023, 01:59 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,944	See https://chuckhawks.com/33_WCF.htm

August 13, 2023, 03:52 AM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	Thanks, I saw that writeup. It's interesting that Winchester came out with the 33 and 35 at about the same time (1902-03) and then pretty much dropped the 33 bore until 1958, while issuing a number of 35s. My 1886 was made in 1906, my 1895 (35 WCF) in 1907. A hunter had a pretty good choice of lever guns in those days. Loading the 33 WCF appears straightforward. What ever happened to the 338 Marlin? I'd completely forgotten about it.

August 15, 2023, 12:10 PM	#5
Dillonhelp Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 53	Hornady made a 200 grain jacketed flat point bullet in the 1970s, and published load data in the 2nd edition Hornady manual.

August 15, 2023, 01:20 PM	#6
Bob Willman Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Location: Bowling Green, Ohio Posts: 112	I also have an 86 in 33WCF and a 95 in 35WCF. I have not loaded for either one in some time and my records were lost in a fire in 1995. My father-in-law used the 86 during deer season and I carried the 95 one year in Pennsylvania. If memory serves, I think I used 200 gr RN for the 33 and 250 gr bullets for the 35. Probably Winchester, Hornady, Remington or Speer brands in the 1980s and powder like 3031 or 4064. It has been a long time. NRA Benefactor

August 15, 2023, 04:20 PM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	Dillonhelp, I found that edition stashed away. Gives me a starting point. Bob, I load 250s over IMR-3031 for the '95. Luckily, Ken Waters was a fan and wrote a good article about it. But I’ve never seen anything by him on the 33. We'll get a data point tomorrow when I try a starter load.

August 18, 2023, 05:44 AM	#8
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	Initial run with a modest load of Re-15.5 yielded 2,115/15 Std. COL 2.77 (where Hawk puts their cannelure when they have one - not always) cycles fine. Should be no problem to get 2,200 without approaching spec MAP, at least according to QuickLOAD. I put together a progression to achieve that. First time I tried a Lee factory crimp die, and it works very well. Guess that Hornady .338 FTX has been discontinued.

August 30, 2023, 07:10 AM	#9
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	The old Winchester is sending 200 gr Hawk bullets at 2,256/7.4, so now all I need to do is adapt my old eyes to buckhorn sights. Do not like them, but this old rifle is not to be modified. At least it is pleasant to shoot. Same session I ran some 250 gr Speer Hot Core through the 1895. They run the same 2,200 as the Hornady, and beat me up just the same.

August 30, 2023, 11:41 AM	#11
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,478	Good suggestion. I have tang mounted apertures on a couple rifles. I'll work with the current sight for now, at least until it gets me saying unkind things.