45 Colt with unique

josh29j · December 14, 2016, 07:04 PM

Just bought a Ruger new vaquero.im ready to load for it I want to use unique and I have hornady 250 xtp. Hornady book max is 7.4g and lyman says same bullet is 8.4g I believe. Why such a big difference? And what loads think I should use?

Pathfinder45 · December 14, 2016, 08:01 PM

If you have a New Vaquero, you should go by the book. If you have a chronograph to go with, you can make your own decisions about stepping over the line, knowing that if you get into trouble, your blood is on your own head and you can blame no one but yourself. But that is true for anyone who reloads: You are on your own, and you may live or die as a consequence of your decisions. Those of us who have original Vaqueros are frequently breaking the sound barrier with no worries. Doesn't mean that you should.....

nhyrum · December 14, 2016, 08:11 PM

I agree, go by the book and stay on the low end. On the other hand, I have a Taurus 454, so I can load a little on the heavier side.

Pathfinder45 · December 14, 2016, 08:18 PM

On a more helpful note, the Ruger New Vaquero is only very slightly stronger than a Colt. If you use a maximum recommended load for a Colt, from the bullet and powder manufacturers, you should be OK. But avoid any loadings listed as, "FOR RUGER ONLY", as those are intended for the much stronger Blackhawk, and original Vaquero revolvers. If you are confused about it, speak right up, and we will be glad to help clarify things.

josh29j · December 14, 2016, 08:51 PM

I understand the different data for Blackhawks. I loaded some @ 7.3g I was curious why hornday says. 6.2g to 7.4g but lyman has for same bullet. 7.8g to 8.4 or 8.7g can't remember which is was now. Those are not the Ruger only data

mehavey · December 14, 2016, 10:06 PM

The NEW Vaquero can handle about 50% over SAAMI, while the OLD Blackhawk/Vaquero could handle double.

That said, see:
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...34_preview.pdf
and particularly..
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...246partial.pdf

postscriptum: Yes, I've now turned the barrel.

**44 AMP** · December 14, 2016, 11:31 PM

Lets be clear about something, do you have a Lyman manual that lists loads for the Hornady 250gr XTP bullet, or does it list loads for "250gr jacketed"?

The XTP is a specific bullet, with its own characteristics, jacket hardness, bearing surface, etc. The maker worked up loads for it. If you follow their recommendations you should be fine.

That being said, I've been loading .45 Colt for a long time, had my days of playing with the heavy loads, and settled on a load that wasn't quite as much, (Ruger Blackhawk) I load to the max listed in my old Lyman manual for a COLT SAA, which is significantly higher than the loads you are looking at.

Different loading books use different test guns and components. Where they stop is either where they got signs of excessive pressure, or SAAMI max pressure, or where the performance of the load is so poor it doesn't justify going any further with it. It's NOT the blow up limit of the gun.

noylj · December 15, 2016, 04:23 AM

>Just bought a Ruger new vaquero.im ready to load for it I want to use unique and I have hornady 250 xtp. Hornady book max is 7.4g and lyman says same bullet is 8.4g I believe.

So? You are going to start with the START load right? I always start with the lowest start load I can find.
Did either manual use your lot of powder? The same gun for testing? Does any thing they used EXACTLY match what you have or what the other manual used (even bullets can make changes over time)?
I don't have the Lyman book you appear to have, but for historical reference:
Lyman 44th edition called for 8.0gn (813fps) to 9.0 gn (901fps) Unique with 250gn jacketed bullets.
Lyman 48th edition calls out Hdy HP-XTP at 7.5gn (878fps) to 9.3gn (1102 fps) in the rifle load section, and,
in the pistol section, they call out generic 250gn JHP (but it looks like an XTP) and 7.8gn (755 fps) to 8.7gn (877fps).
Hornady 3rd edition calls out use of a #4520 250gn JHP and 7.1gn Unique start (750 fps) and 8.8gn MAX (900 fps).
Hornady 4th edition calls out the 250gn HP-XTP and 6.3gn of Unique (700 fps) to 7.7gn MAX (800fps). Maybe they saw some pressure problems and backed down the load?
Whatever, I prefer to be safe and use the lowest start charge.

josh29j · December 15, 2016, 05:04 AM

Yes lyman. Used the same bullet hornady 250g xtp.

Pathfinder45 · December 15, 2016, 05:05 PM

I am NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but if you went as high as 9.5 grains, and you blew your gun apart, I would be very, very surprised, but not nearly as surprised as you would be. Do you have a chronograph?

huntinaz · December 15, 2016, 06:16 PM

I'm with Pathfinder and 44AMP, I'm not in my shop but off the top of my head, the Hornady load seems very light even for SAA 45 Colt. The standard 45 colt load with a 255-260gr LSWC is what, 8.5gr Unique??

I think my Hornady manual is the 7th edition and my Lyman the 49th, I'll try to remember to see what they say.

Like Pathfinder said, I'm not recommending it, but if someone bet me right now that they'd give me $20 if I didn't lose any fingers to load up 6 250XTP's under 8.5gr Unique and fire them through my new model Vaquero I would probably do it

Obv the safe thing to do is start low, somewhere in the Hornady load manual data, and work up. I would bet you could work up safely to at least 8.4gr or whatever the Lyman max is.

Pathfinder45 · December 15, 2016, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Like Pathfinder said, I'm not recommending it, but if someone bet me right now that they'd give me $20 if I didn't lose any fingers to load up 6 250XTP's under 8.5gr Unique and fire them through my new model Vaquero I would probably do it

As long as I loaded it with my handloads, absolutely.
The Hornady 250 grain XTP is a good bullet and I've shot a lot of them. However, my favorite is one I cast from the Lee 255 grain RF mold. I'm running those at 9.5 grains of Unique, IN MY ORIGINAL VAQUERO. If I had a New Vaquero, I would probably want to work up to that same load over a chronograph and stop on the way up if I get to 1,000 fps sooner. And I would start at 8.5 grains with that bullet. But that's me, and I have a lot of experience with this caliber. I had an old Colt SAA made in 1902 many years back that I ran at 8.0 grains of Unique with home cast 252 grain Lee SWC bullets that shot wonderfully.
You can reach a higher velocity at lower pressure with cast bullets than you can with jacketed bullets due to the difference in friction. Thus a maximum load for a cast bullet could be an overload for a jacketed bullet of the same weight.

December 14, 2016, 07:04 PM	#1
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	45 Colt with unique Just bought a Ruger new vaquero.im ready to load for it I want to use unique and I have hornady 250 xtp. Hornady book max is 7.4g and lyman says same bullet is 8.4g I believe. Why such a big difference? And what loads think I should use?

December 14, 2016, 10:06 PM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,950	The NEW Vaquero can handle about 50% over SAAMI, while the OLD Blackhawk/Vaquero could handle double. That said, see: https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...34_preview.pdf and particularly.. https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...246partial.pdf postscriptum: Yes, I've now turned the barrel. Last edited by mehavey; December 14, 2016 at 10:15 PM.

December 14, 2016, 11:31 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 29,027	Lets be clear about something, do you have a Lyman manual that lists loads for the Hornady 250gr XTP bullet, or does it list loads for "250gr jacketed"? The XTP is a specific bullet, with its own characteristics, jacket hardness, bearing surface, etc. The maker worked up loads for it. If you follow their recommendations you should be fine. That being said, I've been loading .45 Colt for a long time, had my days of playing with the heavy loads, and settled on a load that wasn't quite as much, (Ruger Blackhawk) I load to the max listed in my old Lyman manual for a COLT SAA, which is significantly higher than the loads you are looking at. Different loading books use different test guns and components. Where they stop is either where they got signs of excessive pressure, or SAAMI max pressure, or where the performance of the load is so poor it doesn't justify going any further with it. It's NOT the blow up limit of the gun. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 15, 2016, 06:16 PM	#11
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	I'm with Pathfinder and 44AMP, I'm not in my shop but off the top of my head, the Hornady load seems very light even for SAA 45 Colt. The standard 45 colt load with a 255-260gr LSWC is what, 8.5gr Unique?? I think my Hornady manual is the 7th edition and my Lyman the 49th, I'll try to remember to see what they say. Like Pathfinder said, I'm not recommending it, but if someone bet me right now that they'd give me $20 if I didn't lose any fingers to load up 6 250XTP's under 8.5gr Unique and fire them through my new model Vaquero I would probably do it Obv the safe thing to do is start low, somewhere in the Hornady load manual data, and work up. I would bet you could work up safely to at least 8.4gr or whatever the Lyman max is. __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

December 14, 2016, 08:01 PM	#2
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	If you have a New Vaquero, you should go by the book. If you have a chronograph to go with, you can make your own decisions about stepping over the line, knowing that if you get into trouble, your blood is on your own head and you can blame no one but yourself. But that is true for anyone who reloads: You are on your own, and you may live or die as a consequence of your decisions. Those of us who have original Vaqueros are frequently breaking the sound barrier with no worries. Doesn't mean that you should.....

December 14, 2016, 08:11 PM	#3
nhyrum Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2016 Posts: 592	I agree, go by the book and stay on the low end. On the other hand, I have a Taurus 454, so I can load a little on the heavier side.

December 14, 2016, 08:18 PM	#4
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	On a more helpful note, the Ruger New Vaquero is only very slightly stronger than a Colt. If you use a maximum recommended load for a Colt, from the bullet and powder manufacturers, you should be OK. But avoid any loadings listed as, "FOR RUGER ONLY", as those are intended for the much stronger Blackhawk, and original Vaquero revolvers. If you are confused about it, speak right up, and we will be glad to help clarify things.

December 14, 2016, 08:51 PM	#5
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	I understand the different data for Blackhawks. I loaded some @ 7.3g I was curious why hornday says. 6.2g to 7.4g but lyman has for same bullet. 7.8g to 8.4 or 8.7g can't remember which is was now. Those are not the Ruger only data

December 15, 2016, 04:23 AM	#8
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 860	>Just bought a Ruger new vaquero.im ready to load for it I want to use unique and I have hornady 250 xtp. Hornady book max is 7.4g and lyman says same bullet is 8.4g I believe. So? You are going to start with the START load right? I always start with the lowest start load I can find. Did either manual use your lot of powder? The same gun for testing? Does any thing they used EXACTLY match what you have or what the other manual used (even bullets can make changes over time)? I don't have the Lyman book you appear to have, but for historical reference: Lyman 44th edition called for 8.0gn (813fps) to 9.0 gn (901fps) Unique with 250gn jacketed bullets. Lyman 48th edition calls out Hdy HP-XTP at 7.5gn (878fps) to 9.3gn (1102 fps) in the rifle load section, and, in the pistol section, they call out generic 250gn JHP (but it looks like an XTP) and 7.8gn (755 fps) to 8.7gn (877fps). Hornady 3rd edition calls out use of a #4520 250gn JHP and 7.1gn Unique start (750 fps) and 8.8gn MAX (900 fps). Hornady 4th edition calls out the 250gn HP-XTP and 6.3gn of Unique (700 fps) to 7.7gn MAX (800fps). Maybe they saw some pressure problems and backed down the load? Whatever, I prefer to be safe and use the lowest start charge.

December 15, 2016, 05:04 AM	#9
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	Yes lyman. Used the same bullet hornady 250g xtp.

December 15, 2016, 05:05 PM	#10
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	I am NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but if you went as high as 9.5 grains, and you blew your gun apart, I would be very, very surprised, but not nearly as surprised as you would be. Do you have a chronograph?