Webley re-conversion.

[Olaf19]

I have a .455 Webley Mark VI that’s been shaved to .45acp.

I’ve not yet fired it.

After reading all the warnings about using .45, I’d like to convert it back to its original .455 glory.

I have no intention of getting back into reloading (reloading .45 to .455 Webley pressures)

Has anybody “reconverted” one back to .455?

[Jim Watson]

There have been shim plates made to reconvert for .455 but all I get on the websites is virus warnings, even one I located and linked 5 years ago, so I don't know where to go.

If you are unwilling to load for it - .45 Auto Rim brass should work so you wouldn't need clips - you might as well find it a new home.

[Outpost75]

No issues using .45 Auto Rim brass with appropriate pressure tested loads not exceeding 13,000 cup.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition 2010 pgs 277-278 has data. Short answer - 3.5 grains of Bullseye in Fiocchi, Hornady or Starline brass with soft lead 230-265 grain bullet.

If you don't reload factory R-P .45 Auto Rim lead loads are held to an appropriate level for shaved Webleys. Avoid .45 ACP ammo.

[Jim Watson]

Interesting but I can’t find any for sale.

[44 AMP]

.45 Auto Rim brass should work so you wouldn't need clips -

SHOULD

No issues using .45 Auto Rim brass with appropriate pressure tested loads not exceeding 13,000 cup.

Won't work in my gun.

The basic problem is that the shaved Webleys are not uniform. When supplies of .455 ammo dried up, several DIFFERENT distributors had the cylinders "shaved" to take .45acp ammo in 1/2 moon clips the way the 1917 Colt and S&W do. Because there was no standard, different guns got different amounts shaved off the cylinder.

Some of the guns will take Auto Rim brass and SOME WILL NOT!

I have a Mk VI made in 1917. It has been just barely shaved. Less metal was removed that other shaved Webleys I have seen. Mine will NOT work with Auto Rim brass. You can load AR brass into it, and close it, but the cylinder will not turn. Nor will the gun work with any full moon clip I have tried. Works great with S&W half moon clips, won't work with any thicker clips. My gun will still fire .455 ammo, but not reliably.

The place to look is on the bottom edge of the cylinder where the serial number is marked. Look for the numbers with round bottoms, 3, 6, 8, 0. If the bottom curve of those number is cut /clipped off, your gun will probably work with Auto rim brass. My gun only has the very outside edge of the curve cut and won't work with the thick rimmed AR cases.

[Webleymkv]

Steinel sells low pressure ammunition suitable for shaved Webleys (Mk. IV and later, Mk. I-III should only be fired with black powder) in both .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim cases.

https://steinelammo.com/product-cate...mo/455-webley/

https://steinelammo.com/product-cate...o/45-auto-rim/

[rock185]

My MKVI works with ACP and AR brass, but I bought one of those shims/rings so I could try out .455 cartridges. Works fine with the Fiocchi factory ammo and .455 reloads I used..

[Mike Irwin]

Unshaved cylinders ARE available... occasionally... and expensively... but they're out there.

You'd probably have to have it fitted.

If you can't find a shim ring any competent gunsmith or even a machinist should be able to make one.

It appears that the proper thickness of the material for a shim would be about 18 gauge, but the actual nominal thickness of the stock varies on which metal it is (aluminium, brass, or stainless).

[tangolima]

Design the shim with 3d modeling software. Send it out for 3d printing in nylon to test fit. It may as is if no pressure or high temperature is involved. Next step is to send it out for CNC machining if needed.

3d printing is cheap. $10 ish including shipping. CNC is 5x to 10x more. I can help with designing. Just need dimensions.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

It appears that the proper thickness of the material for a shim would be about 18 gauge, ..

The key here is not the thickness of the stock used, but the length of the finished repair, shim installed.

And, this is something that needs to be hand fitted for each individual gun. Careful measuring is needed, to accurately determine how much length it will take to restore each shaved cylinder to factory spec length, and no more.

THEN, the shim must be installed correctly.

The right thickness for gun A, could be too thick, or not thick enough for gun B, or gun K, despite being right for the guns in between.

The British stopped making, and officially "retired" the Mk VI (the last .45 cal Webley) in the early 1920s. They were retained as the substitute standard, and did serve though WWII. Replacement parts only come from junked guns stripped for parts, or in very rare cases, made from scratch.

[Mike Irwin]

I noted 18 gauge because it falls right in the heart spec of what thickness SHOULD be needed to restore the gun to nominal factory headspace dimensions.

If 16 gauge were required, the simple fact is that the cylinder would have been shaved so drastically that it likely wouldn't fire reliably with auto rim cases -- the headspace dimension would be too great.

If 20 gauge were required, the action likely would not close because headspace dimensions would be grossly small.

And yes, length does matter, but there's not such a critical overriding need to measure to the 24th decimal place that if one doesn't the entire project will be a failure.

Headspace isn't an exact number, it's a range number, as your own gun proves. And on just about any Webley that will reliably fire, 18 gauge stainless steel sheet stock is going to get you close enough in most cases that it's going to work just fine. Without the need to atomic lasers for fitment.

That said, Tangolima's suggestion to 3D print a spacer ring is, quite frankly, brilliant.

Chamber pressures on the Webley cartridge are incredibly low (+- 13,000 psi), meaning that a heavy duty nylon printed shim would likely be perfectly adequate for hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds.

The only rub would be making sure that the shim allowed use of the automatic ejector. Without a Webley at hand I'm not sure what would need to be done. It's been way too long since I've messed with one.

As for a replacement cylinder, I got one from Arthur Webley just the other day.

MMazyahgottabunchacylinderslefovah...

Extra points if you know what I'm talking about...

[zeke]

Originally Posted by Webleymkv

Steinel sells low pressure ammunition suitable for shaved Webleys (Mk. IV and later, Mk. I-III should only be fired with black powder) in both .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim cases.

https://steinelammo.com/product-cate...mo/455-webley/

https://steinelammo.com/product-cate...o/45-auto-rim/

thank you!

[Olaf19]

Thanks for all the info! A lot to think about!

[44 AMP]

I'm quite happy to leave mine in the shape its in. At one time I was interested in getting it restored to use .455 ammo, but no longer. Even though .455 ammo is again available, its scares and expensive, and there's no point for me, since my shaved gun is never going to be "original" again, so using the original ammo isn't worth the cost.

I'm fine with using .45acp BRASS loaded with Webley appropriate level loads.