Brass versus steel

secondeagle · July 29, 2011, 05:04 PM

I am looking into getting into BP revolvers. Had read that steel is preferable to brass because brass will "stretch" after shooting. My question is how much do you have to shoot the weapon before you see a problem? I cannot seem myself going out every day or so and blasting the targets.

Any help would be appreciated.

Hawg · July 29, 2011, 05:25 PM

If you keep the loads light it will last for years. Load them heavy and it won't take many shots before you start seeing the cylinder ratchet imprinted into the recoil shield.

Fingers McGee · July 29, 2011, 05:29 PM

As long as you don't fill the chambers as full of T7 or BP as you can possible stuff in them, a brass framed revolver shoould last a good long time.

Light to moderate loads of BP (15-18 gr in a .36; and 18-22 grains in a .44) will not cause any problems. If you are using T7, .36 cal should be reduced to 13-16 grains and .44 cal to 16-19 grains.

If you're looking for max smoke & fire, 60 gr fffg in a walker will rock your world.

arcticap · July 29, 2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondeagle

My question is how much do you have to shoot the weapon before you see a problem?

There have been some reports about brass guns no longer being functional from use but it's not like anyone was counting the number of shots, although it has been suggested in the past to do just that.
Would you like to be the first to keep a log of every load fired to see how many shots it takes for a brasser to go kaput?

Hawg · July 29, 2011, 08:59 PM

.36 Remington, 18 rounds, 25 grain loads. It's not kaput by a long shot but the damage has started.

secondeagle · July 29, 2011, 09:13 PM

Thanks, guys. I will probably be asking for more help. I shoot a bit, but am really getting the BP fever. Thanks again.

Razor740 · July 29, 2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

am really getting the BP fever.

That's it ! You're doomed !!

Ideal Tool · July 29, 2011, 10:19 PM

Hello, secondeagle. Here is something to think about before buying a brass framed revolver: NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material. This material was used by the confederate arms manufacturers due to a shortage of steel, and drop forge facilities. Brass being relativly easy to cast, it was a natural substitute.
So, unless you want one for authentic C.S. reinactment..why handicap yourself with an inferior frame material?

arcticap · July 29, 2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondeagle

Had read that steel is preferable to brass because brass will "stretch" after shooting.

It's not only about frame stretching and the battering of the recoil shield. The arbor can loosen up on the Colts and the cylinder pin holes can enlarge and become oval on the Remington types with top straps.

ZVP · July 29, 2011, 10:36 PM

I have a .44 Piettia Navy which has had hundreds of light loads fired through it with nosigns of wear or stretching. I keep it at 18-20 gr of Pyrodex or real BP.
So far I have no complaints.
The gun was my second purchase and back then I didn't know about the dangers of damage to a brass framed gun, so I bought it cause it was cheap and I wanted a .44 caliber.
Knowing what I do today I wouldn't buy another! The minimal cost of Steel is worth it.
JMHO
ZVP

zullo74 · July 29, 2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Ideal Tool said: NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material.

Ah, you are forgetting Henry rifles and 1866 Winchester rifles! I think they would be considered 'major' manufacturers.

arcticap · July 29, 2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondeagle

I am looking into getting into BP revolvers.

I think that what Ideal Tool meant was strictly in the context of the topic about BP revolvers as stated in the original post.

zullo74 · July 29, 2011, 11:21 PM

You do, huh?

arcticap · July 29, 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ideal Tool

Here is something to think about before buying a brass framed revolver: NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material....

Yesireebob!

DrLaw · July 29, 2011, 11:44 PM

This type of thread has been done to death here. There is nothing wrong with brass frames as long as you do not try to make magnum guns out of a gun that was never a magnum when it first appeared in the 1800's. None of these guns are made to be a magnum.

If you shoot light loads and take care of the gun, it will last past your lifetime into your kids' lifetime - if they don't sell it for cash for gas or future IPods, etc...

The Doc is out now.

Smokin_Gun · July 30, 2011, 02:28 AM

I concure DR. Law .... I'have a Belgian 1860 from aboutm,1961 Centaure that had imprinmts onn both the Steel Shield and the Cylinder which were very noticable. So Brasss well maintaned and loaded proper wiill last also.
I'd st
ill recomomend

steelframed or onne of each....

Hawg · July 30, 2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Here is something to think about before buying a brass framed revolver: NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material. This material was used by the confederate arms manufacturers due to a shortage of steel, and drop forge facilities.

Actually brass wasn't used. Bronze with a high copper content was used, sometimes called gunmetal or red brass.

Doc Hoy · July 30, 2011, 06:14 AM

.....on a recoil shield is very interesting to me. It is incontrovertable evidence of at least some of the forces applied to a revolver both during loading and during discharge.

rodent.22 · July 30, 2011, 06:28 AM

i've got a couple brass-framed pistols, one Colt style, one Remington style. No issues with either one....

Hawg · July 30, 2011, 06:46 AM

Quote:

It is incontrovertable evidence of at least some of the forces applied to a revolver both during loading and during discharge.

Loading has nothing to do with it.

madcratebuilder · July 30, 2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Hoy

The pattern of the imprint
.....on a recoil shield is very interesting to me. It is incontrovertable evidence of at least some of the forces applied to a revolver both during loading and during discharge.

Doc, normally the hand well force the cylinder forward when cocked plus the impact of the hammer driving the cylinder forward when fired. This gives you a certain amount of end play and the combustion pressures force the cylinder back in to the recoil shield. The more end play the faster you well see this imprint of the ratchet in the recoil shield develop. The pressure from the loading lever probably does not exceed 100-150 psi at the recoil shield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ideal Tool

NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material.

No sir.
Hi-Standard "Guns of the Confederacy" comes to mind. Three or four different models produced in the 70's.

Doc Hoy · July 30, 2011, 11:38 AM

I have to disagree a little on the loading pressure.

The mechanical advantage of the loading lever depending upon which pistol you are considering is somewhere around 8 or 9. With the force applied to the loading lever this means that the actual force pulling on the arbor and therefore pushing the cylinder into the recoil shield could exceed 300 pounds.

I am figuring 30 to 40 pounds of force on the loading lever which in my opinion is realistic.

Hawg · July 30, 2011, 11:51 AM

I really don't think I put out 40 lbs of force to load any of mine but even so that's not enough to imprint a recoil shield no matter how many thousands of rounds you load.

Shotput79 · July 30, 2011, 02:13 PM

Don't want to be hard on new folks wanting to get into the BP revolvers. As for the brass frame revolvers. Wonder how many of us on this thread that has six or more BP revolvers don't have one brass frame in the group. As for me I only have eight BP revolvers. One of them is a brass frame Colt revolver. I can't call it a Navy cause it is in .44 cal, and people make fun of it cause it's 44 instead of .36 cal it's still one of the most fun shooters with 15 to 20grs of powder, and hits right where you point it.

Now I've read some post where people are putting way to much powder in the brass frames really don't think it's a good idea. Just for the new people that come along I don't mind repeating the same thread a couple thousand more times

At the same time you fellows are the reason I keep coming back

I've gotten more help from you all than anybody in any shop around here. I do like buying the colt brass frames to get the barrels, cylinders, grips, wedges, as well as all the stuff inside the frame instead of buying all that stuff one thing at a time. What do you think about that idea. It don't work out to do that with the Remingtions cause you can't get the barrels out. Have a great day everybody.

wmicky · July 30, 2011, 02:26 PM

Is anyone looking for primers and powder, I have 40 55 Gallon Barrells full of bismuth shells! 1 and a 1/4 the primers are all still good , and the powder as well, each barrell has about 5000 shells in them! The tops have been cut off and the loads removed! But like i said the primers are still usable! and the powder as well, and then you can sell the brass for scrap! Last i hurd there paying around 210 a pound for brass! I just dont have the time to mess with them! Thanks!

July 29, 2011, 05:04 PM	#1
secondeagle Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 7	Brass versus steel I am looking into getting into BP revolvers. Had read that steel is preferable to brass because brass will "stretch" after shooting. My question is how much do you have to shoot the weapon before you see a problem? I cannot seem myself going out every day or so and blasting the targets. Any help would be appreciated.

July 29, 2011, 05:29 PM	#3
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Keep em light As long as you don't fill the chambers as full of T7 or BP as you can possible stuff in them, a brass framed revolver shoould last a good long time. Light to moderate loads of BP (15-18 gr in a .36; and 18-22 grains in a .44) will not cause any problems. If you are using T7, .36 cal should be reduced to 13-16 grains and .44 cal to 16-19 grains. If you're looking for max smoke & fire, 60 gr fffg in a walker will rock your world. Last edited by Fingers McGee; July 29, 2011 at 05:31 PM. Reason: spelling

July 30, 2011, 06:14 AM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	The pattern of the imprint .....on a recoil shield is very interesting to me. It is incontrovertable evidence of at least some of the forces applied to a revolver both during loading and during discharge. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 30, 2011, 06:28 AM	#19
rodent.22 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: virginia woods Posts: 129	i've got a couple brass-framed pistols, one Colt style, one Remington style. No issues with either one.... Last edited by rodent.22; July 30, 2011 at 07:14 AM.

July 30, 2011, 11:38 AM	#22
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	MCB I have to disagree a little on the loading pressure. The mechanical advantage of the loading lever depending upon which pistol you are considering is somewhere around 8 or 9. With the force applied to the loading lever this means that the actual force pulling on the arbor and therefore pushing the cylinder into the recoil shield could exceed 300 pounds. I am figuring 30 to 40 pounds of force on the loading lever which in my opinion is realistic. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 29, 2011, 05:25 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	If you keep the loads light it will last for years. Load them heavy and it won't take many shots before you start seeing the cylinder ratchet imprinted into the recoil shield.

July 29, 2011, 08:59 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	.36 Remington, 18 rounds, 25 grain loads. It's not kaput by a long shot but the damage has started.

July 29, 2011, 09:13 PM	#6
secondeagle Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 7	Thanks, guys. I will probably be asking for more help. I shoot a bit, but am really getting the BP fever. Thanks again.

July 29, 2011, 10:19 PM	#8
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, secondeagle. Here is something to think about before buying a brass framed revolver: NONE of the major firearm manufacturers either in U.S. or England used brass as a frame material. This material was used by the confederate arms manufacturers due to a shortage of steel, and drop forge facilities. Brass being relativly easy to cast, it was a natural substitute. So, unless you want one for authentic C.S. reinactment..why handicap yourself with an inferior frame material?

July 29, 2011, 10:36 PM	#10
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	I have a .44 Piettia Navy which has had hundreds of light loads fired through it with nosigns of wear or stretching. I keep it at 18-20 gr of Pyrodex or real BP. So far I have no complaints. The gun was my second purchase and back then I didn't know about the dangers of damage to a brass framed gun, so I bought it cause it was cheap and I wanted a .44 caliber. Knowing what I do today I wouldn't buy another! The minimal cost of Steel is worth it. JMHO ZVP

July 29, 2011, 11:21 PM	#13
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	You do, huh?

July 29, 2011, 11:44 PM	#15
DrLaw Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Wild Western Illinois Posts: 559	This type of thread has been done to death here. There is nothing wrong with brass frames as long as you do not try to make magnum guns out of a gun that was never a magnum when it first appeared in the 1800's. None of these guns are made to be a magnum. If you shoot light loads and take care of the gun, it will last past your lifetime into your kids' lifetime - if they don't sell it for cash for gas or future IPods, etc... The Doc is out now.

July 30, 2011, 02:28 AM	#16
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I concure DR. Law .... I'have a Belgian 1860 from aboutm,1961 Centaure that had imprinmts onn both the Steel Shield and the Cylinder which were very noticable. So Brasss well maintaned and loaded proper wiill last also. I'd st ill recomomend steelframed or onne of each....

July 30, 2011, 11:51 AM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	I really don't think I put out 40 lbs of force to load any of mine but even so that's not enough to imprint a recoil shield no matter how many thousands of rounds you load.

July 30, 2011, 02:13 PM	#24
Shotput79 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 186	Don't want to be hard on new folks wanting to get into the BP revolvers. As for the brass frame revolvers. Wonder how many of us on this thread that has six or more BP revolvers don't have one brass frame in the group. As for me I only have eight BP revolvers. One of them is a brass frame Colt revolver. I can't call it a Navy cause it is in .44 cal, and people make fun of it cause it's 44 instead of .36 cal it's still one of the most fun shooters with 15 to 20grs of powder, and hits right where you point it. Now I've read some post where people are putting way to much powder in the brass frames really don't think it's a good idea. Just for the new people that come along I don't mind repeating the same thread a couple thousand more times At the same time you fellows are the reason I keep coming back I've gotten more help from you all than anybody in any shop around here. I do like buying the colt brass frames to get the barrels, cylinders, grips, wedges, as well as all the stuff inside the frame instead of buying all that stuff one thing at a time. What do you think about that idea. It don't work out to do that with the Remingtions cause you can't get the barrels out. Have a great day everybody.

July 30, 2011, 02:26 PM	#25
wmicky Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 1	Primers and Powder! Is anyone looking for primers and powder, I have 40 55 Gallon Barrells full of bismuth shells! 1 and a 1/4 the primers are all still good , and the powder as well, each barrell has about 5000 shells in them! The tops have been cut off and the loads removed! But like i said the primers are still usable! and the powder as well, and then you can sell the brass for scrap! Last i hurd there paying around 210 a pound for brass! I just dont have the time to mess with them! Thanks!

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