make your own jacketed .38/.357 bullets

[mannyCA]

http://youtu.be/pEUjEEQM4jo

let me know what you guys think, am I crazy or what?

BTW, these shoot very nicely out of my blackhawk...

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Bullet swaging is nothing new, yet interesting. Though my knowledge is limited on swaging bullets using brass casings I do worry about the hardness of the brass and barrel wear due to the hardness of brass over softer copper, lead, or coated bullets. My understanding is that copper runs about 80-85 BHN on average and brass somewhere around 192BHN.

Understanding that hardness is separate from friction they still work together. The harder the metal, the more the wear and the heavier the friction with a hard metal the wear factor increases. I don't believe the friction to be much different between brass and copper but I would have to ask a metallurgist for more data about how porous the two metals are and how they would compare in friction. Yet hardness is a factor and that worry's me.

Maybe I am all wrong or off base but my concerns would have to be addressed before I would ever shoot brass jacketed bullets down my barrel. YMMV.

I know there are tonnes of people who use this practice (none personally) and much more information can be found on http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ in the swaging section. I go there often being a greenhorn bullet caster.

[skizzums]

nice, I haven't seen it done with a .223 die yet, ill have to play around with that. it's nice when someone comes up with a way using very common bras and dies. I will cut down 9mm brass before using .380 though, plus the slight taper of the 9mm may help with the sizing.

thanks a lot, like I needed another project.

[mannyCA]

Brass is usually about 70% copper 30% zinc, so barrels will be ok.

Shot a bunch of my .44 mag and .45acp that I swaged in the same manner and everything has been fine.

[skizzums]

if frankenmauser chimes in o this thread, he makes some really cool casing jacketed bullets, he has many threads on it, and some of them are some heavy hitters.

not sure if i's against the rules to suggest other forums, delete if so, but here is everything you need to know about the subject and then some.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...php?41-Swaging


these are made from cut down 9mm casings. obviously these are done with very pricey swaging dies, but just showing you the possibilities.these are 150gr .358/38 boolits

[mannyCA]

Man, those sure are some nice looking bullets! Did you use bt snipers dies? He's got some high quality stuff.

Very nice indeed!

[JohnKSa]

...not sure if i's against the rules to suggest other forums...

No problem at all. Mentioning other forums in a positive light is perfectly acceptable. Denigrating other forums is discouraged to prevent "forum wars" between the members of TFL and those of other online forums.

[JT-AR-MG42]

Interesting way of making them and definitely will trying it.

Working on 9mm cases/.357 bullets from a different angle at this time though.

A friend of mine is shooting .45ACP cases made into 550 - 600 gr. .458 half jacket bullets.
Store bought jacketed bullets that size/weight are relatively expensive for practice.

One of his side by side .45s requires jacketed bullets for accuracy. It will not stabilize lead (lino.) at any velocity worth shooting, nor will they regulate.

He sizes and anneals the cases and runs them through a .458 push through sizing die he made.
The cases are then placed in a two cavity mold he bored.
Mold is bored with a slight shoulder for the cases to stop on, although his next mold used an adjustable stop on the case rims to allow variations in weight.

Finished bullets are re-sized .458 and then put in another mold which places a series of stab crimps into the jacket to secure the core.

Accurate enough for his purpose.
He's just about ready to start making my molds.

JT

[mannyCA]

JT, very interesting way he makes them. I've got my own methods I'm working on right now.

[hartcreek]

I just do not see wasting 9mm or other cases that I could be reloading to make a bullet when I can hard cast and gas check and have no leading at 2600 fps.

[FrankenMauser]

I just do not see wasting 9mm or other cases that I could be reloading to make a bullet when I can hard cast and gas check and have no leading at 2600 fps.

When all you care about is launching a projectile and reducing or eliminating leading, that approach will work just fine.
But if you want reasonable, predictable expansion, being able to wrap a soft core with a jacket material is hard to beat.

As for 9mm and .40 S&W brass... I have given away and/or recycled more than I would ever use ...and I still find more with every range trip.

---

Manny, if you seat the cores into the jacket, before running the assembly into the 'forming' die, you'll get more consistent bullets and you'll be less likely to experience a "loose" core.

---

As skizzums mentioned, I use .40 S&W cases to swage .44 caliber bullets with a 7x57mm sizing die. I have toyed with a few different variations, but the best (and easiest to make) has been a 275 gr version.
I use pure lead .41 caliber semiwadcutters for the cores (adjusted for weight, if necessary), weight-matched with sorted cases trimmed to 0.810".

Sized to 0.429" or 0.430", they do quite well in .44 Mag. Sized to 0.4315" or larger, they perform admirably in .444 Marlin.

Speaking of which... I need to knock out another batch of 300-500. I'm down to about 50 bullets and they're all "blems".

A 320 grain version would be easy to make with 10mm Auto brass, but I don't come across it very often, and I'm not going to buy 10mm brass just to make some bullets. I have custom molds for 300+ gr situations.



Recovered from the neck of a bull elk:
(154% expansion. 66% weight retention. -After punching through a tree limb and annihilating the elk's spine. )

[hartcreek]

If brass is so easy for you to get why are you not selling it here as others do instead of swageing it in to bullets? Around here brass of any kind is not that plentiful so I have to rely on my hard casts for hunting and Hornady XTPs for carry.

I looked at the link you posted and you stated that you wer getting the best performance out of the 240-275 grain bullets for .44. I hard cast 240 grain .44 so I do not see any advantage going through that swageing. I just see the loss of cases that could be used to load something else.

Your bullet is purty but I can not see it performing and better for a .44 Magnum in a .444 Marlin maybe.

[FrankenMauser]

hartcreek,
Free brass + cheap lead = jacketed bullets for $0.03 to $0.05 apiece, based on $1-$2/lb lead. (Actually LESS than it costs me to cast .44 caliber bullets, since it uses less lead, doesn't require tin or antimony, I don't have to lube them, and I don't waste time sorting and don't waste electricity remelting the rejects.)

Add some paste flux and a trip through a propane torch, and turn them into bonded bullets for another $0.02 to $0.03 each.
A good price on a comparable bullet, the Hornady 265 gr FP Interlock, is about $0.28 apiece. Mine cost 25 cents less to make; or 20 cents less to make, for a better version (bonded).

Aside from the fact that I like swaging my own bullets, I come out on top, financially, by using the .40 S&W cases as jackets, rather than selling them to buy commercial jacketed bullets. (Cast bullets are not an option, under the requirements I have set.) I'm not afraid to get rid of some of my supply - earlier this year, I sold a substantial amount of .380 Auto, 9mm, and .40 S&W to three different members of this forum. It's just that I prefer to use the cases that make good bullet jackets for that very purpose. ...And the same reason I'm sitting next to 15 lbs of .22 LR hulls, and a collection of .22 Short, .17 HMR, and .22 WMR hulls. (.22 LR makes light 6mm bullets or 50-62 gr .224" bullets, the shorts make great 45 gr .224" bullets, and the HMR and WMR hulls make fantastic 6mm bullets.)

Swaging isn't for everyone. It's a labor of love.
Swaging, to the average bullet caster, seems to be viewed much like bullet casting is viewed by the average reloader, "Why in the sam h--l would you waste your time with that, when I can buy bullets that someone else already made?..."



It's somewhat like the "hard cast" versus "use the right alloy" arguments in casting. There are many people, like me, that absolutely hate what most people refer to as "hard cast" bullets. They're overly hard, often to the point of being brittle, and don't provide any benefit unless you're just after massive penetration.

Most people shoot "hard cast" bullets in .44 Mag, and, even then, don't shoot full power loads, because they get massive leading. I use Isotope alloy for my cast .44 bullets. It comes in right around BHN 10 to 10.5 - far too "soft" for most people - but I run it in light loads, moderate loads, and full power loads. With proper lube and proper sizing, leading is not an issue. Yet, I still get reasonable expansion, since the alloy isn't insanely hard.

Some people just like launching bullets downrange.
I don't. I also care about what that bullet does when it gets downrange. Pretty much every bullet I work with, and every mold I design, is intended to be used for hunting - be it small game, big game, or predator defense. Punching holes isn't good enough. Expansion is required. Controlled expansion is better (and best achieved by using a jacket).

[hartcreek]

Good Lord you must have contacts everywhere to get enough isotope alloy. I have thought about taking one of those and standing some place with one in my hand to see if I could get a reaction. My guess is that most people would not know what I was holding.

My .44 magnum loads are maximum and my cases are getting old enough that I am getting splits. I have posted photos of my Uberti/IJ buntline before. I tested my castings using phone books so I am sure enough that I will get good expansion on an animal.

[bledsoeG19]

I dont know about you guys but around my neck of the woods you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a pile of .40 brass. Every LE agency around here issues .40 and most, not all, LEO's don't care about reloading at all. Therefore, businesses that sell once fired brass have shelves full of it. Funny part is that they won't come off the price any to get it to move.

Interesting concept, talk about being resourceful...

[oley55]

Manny, pretty interesting stuff. I had found and saved ur youtube links just yesterday.

fyi, my thoughts when I watched ur youtubes was, "I sure do wish he would show the finished tip of just one of those bullets." lots of shots of the sides and bottoms but no tips. just saying.....................

[BumbleBug]

Originally Posted by bledsoeG19

I dont know about you guys but around my neck of the woods you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a pile of .40 brass.

I know what you mean!...LOL
My big complaint about the .40cal is that I have trouble picking out the the .45ACP's with a quick glance.


...bug

[FrankenMauser]

Good Lord you must have contacts everywhere to get enough isotope alloy.

Buy it cheap, and stack it deep.


Honestly, though... I'm down to about 75 lbs (2 cores and a dozen ingots). I'll cry when I run out.

[Mike / Tx]

Honestly, though... I'm down to about 75 lbs (2 cores and a dozen ingots). I'll cry when I run out.

Oh man I had to read that twice, I first thougt you said you were "down to 75 cores"

I was thinking well so am I, but I will hopefully be getting some more here shortly to bring that back up to a nicer number....

Then I re-read it and yes you are in a pinch for sure. I might be a bit conservative for sure, and would definitely be mining the burm for sure.