Your thoughts on the .50 BMG at a public range...

[tobnpr]

Thanks to those of you- and there are more than a few- that took my question in the spirit it was intended.

As far as the "why don't you just go somewhere else where they're not allowed" comments, be advised that this is the only 1000 yard public range in the state of Florida. If you shoot long range, and you're from Florida, you know the place...

So, there IS no place else to shoot, and we drive two hours each way to get there.

So for a final time, my question was ONLY whether the .50 BMG exceeds the "civility" standard for a crowded public range on a Sunday afternoon- nothing more. It is NOT a knock on the .50- I already stated it would be a cool toy to own, but waay down on my list for practical reasons..if you own one, good for you- seriously...

If you haven't sat next to one directly in the blast wake, don't bother commenting- because you have no clue.

[Double Naught Spy]

Lighten up, pal- and re-read my post...

I NEVER said the guy wasn't a serious shooter...
I did question as to why anyone would select a .50 BMG over the .338 LM for TARGET shooting at 1000 and less.

I've sat next to .300 WM's, .338 LM's, and they're not even close to the concussion of the .50 BMG.

You ever sat directly next to one, and had the shooter run off 20 rounds?

Yes tobnpr, I have, and in sessions over 100 rounds as a spotter and I have spotted for .338 Lapua shooters as well. Both will put a bit of wear and tear on you, no doubt, and the .50 BMG is worse. Of course, the report of some of the larger caliber full auto guns will shake your fillings loose as well. It is a gun range. Guns are loud. Bring the proper gear.

I think you should probably reread your own post as you incorrectly summarized what you said, LOL. I hope that isn't from the concussion of the .50 BMG.

[B.L.E.]

It's a lot easier to find public ranges that don't allow .50 BMG than it is to find public ranges that do allow them so if you shoot at a range that allows them, let them shoot there. Sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

[Lee McNelly]

u know the saying leave or he could and come back when its empty

[tobnpr]

I don't think most shooters bring more than "conventional" hearing protection to the range, which is inadequate for the .50 BMG.

If I stuff my ear with plugs, then put on electronic muffs, I can't hear the RSO, nor converse with the people I'm shooting with.

If there were an emergency, I would never hear it over the loudspeaker. How is that OK?

I've asked the question, raised the concerns I have. Nothing further to add, so I'll let you guys have at it.

[sc928porsche]

Yes, I own a 50. When I go to a public range with it, I always try to be the one on the end. I have even gone as far as to ask someone on the end if they would like to trade benches with me. Its just a courtesy to others. However, if you didn't bring good eye and ear protection with you, then the fault is yours. My best advice to you would to be to quit complaining and invest in the proper gear. BTW.........my 378WBY isn't that quiet either.

[brmfan]

SC98: You beat me to it.... When I bring my 'fiddy' to a public range, I also set up as far to one side of the firing line as possible. Yes, I try to be a good corporate citizen but I'm not going to burn time and gas to NOT shoot it for fear of offending anyone. I have been in indoor ranges with Garands going off right next to me, and I wished it weren't so loud but 1) I just sucked it up and 2) it's their right to do so and I am thankful that I and others can still exercise that right.

There are always going to be things that annoy you, but as you said it was a public range so it comes with the territory.

Tobnpr: Never had a problem with using just my ear muffs...

[RamItOne]

I just can't stand the sound of a .22LR going off 8 benches away.



I can understand it can be loud but double bag the muffs, I like using my electronic muffs and little foam plugs.


Edit
Tobnr just saw the post about electronic earmuffs and not hearing anything of you had plugs in as well. Just turn up the muffs. They don't amplify the loud sound so turning up the sensitivity won't make the bmg louder and you'll hear the RSO just fine.

[jjyergler]

No, of course no guns should be banned at ANY public range. Reasonable rules, such as no rapid fire, etc are safety and consideration issues.

At my local range, there are times when its crowded and times when its empty. If you are going there with a fifty, you should be considerate and polite. Being next to a fifty isn't just loud, they produce a concussive wave that is absolutely disturbing. I love it, but my girlfriend, the novice shooter, just learning to shoot my AR might not. The dad teaching his five year old the basics might not. If you have a fifty, it is absolutely your responsibility to use it in a manner that isn't abusive to people in your general area. If you go to the range, and every lane is full, there are families with kids, put the fifty down for another day. Ask the RM what times the range is a little quieter.

It's like the guy who rides a motorcycle. If I'm eating at my quiet little restaurant and everyone is on the patio enjoying themselves, don't pull up and rev your Harley. I'll watch for motorcycles, but don't race them, drive between traffic lanes and all the other stupidity I see.

Americans sometimes forget, freedom means we CAN do something, but responsibility and morality tell us if we SHOULD do it. Be respectful, be polite, save the fifty for days when the range is a little less crowded.

I love muzzle blast. Not everyone does. Use your brain as well as your trigger finger.

[Double Naught Spy]

The bottom line tobnpr is that if the guy isn't breaking any rules, he has just as much right to be there as you do even if your gun isn't as loud as his.

I don't think most shooters bring more than "conventional" hearing protection to the range, which is inadequate for the .50 BMG.

If you don't bring adequate hearing protection for what can be fired on the range, then you don't have adequate hearing protection, do you?

If you want special circumstances, then find a range that doesn't allow .50s, show up on days when few other shooters are present, buy your own land and set up your own range where you make all the rules.

If I stuff my ear with plugs, then put on electronic muffs, I can't hear the RSO, nor converse with the people I'm shooting with.

If there were an emergency, I would never hear it over the loudspeaker. How is that OK?

You have to turn on the electronic muffs. I wear plugs and muffs. I turn up the volume high and have normal conversations with folks. It does not create an unsafe situation where I can't hear the RSO or anyone else.

Tobnpr: Never had a problem with using just my ear muffs...

In his defense, I would say that next to most .50 BMGs like the Barretts, McMillans, and AR15 .50 bmg uppers, even the best of muffs may not be enough when you are off to the side. The best place to be is behind the front sight and the second best place to be if not on top of the shooter is directly behind the shooter for most of them. There is a slight sound shadow that is the sweet spot to be in when it goes off. To the immediate left or right is not ideal.

Personally what I find most annoying isn't the sound, but the blast of gas and debris some a person's gun off to either side that has a muzzle brake. This is especially true when the folks are shooting bigger calibers. I find that typical safety glasses will fail to stop the dirty air from circulating over your eyes. About all that does is googles. However, the inadequacy of my shooting glasses isn't the fault of the person with the big bore and muzzle brake.

[jjyergler]

I've shot an M82, and I have fired Mother Deuce. For all of you out there who haven't, nothing compares to the M2. There's a reason its called the .50 BMG. That stands for Browning Machine Gun. Nothing compares to that. I have been to the mountaintop, and on it sits a tripod mounted M2!

[TXAZ]

Ultimately if a group of shooters does things to hack-off others, the "others" group will find a way to restrict the shooters activities. Be nice & work together or ultimately be-gone...

As to why a .50 vs. .338? .50 hands down on energy delivered. Easier to find components, substantial supply of mil-surplus-relatively-low-cost ammo, significant diversity in weapon platforms and ammo types. And yes, there is something impressive about not only hanging onto 11,000 ft-lbs / 15K Joules of muzzle energy, but also being able to put the second through n-th round on target at 500+ yards, or hitting a 2x2' target at 1 mile, twice in a row.

And besides, can you name a single manufacturer of an APEX / Raufoss Mk 211 round for a .338? Don't think it exists.

Some people like Kia's, some like Lincoln's or Corvette's. Some like .50s, and like Kraigwy will find their own place to fire, or find a public range that allows big bore's.

Just one opinion.

[geetarman]

At my outdoor range, the .50 calibers are restricted to one location at the end of the line of benches.

I hear them go off but do not pay much attention to them.

When someone sets up next to me with a Desert Eagle 50 AE or a Smith 500, that gets my attention.

If the rules allow a .50 to set up anywhere, then you are pretty much stuck with it.

Geetarman

[frumious]

tobnpr, I feel for you both for what your son endured and what you have endured on this thread. When I saw the title I thought "Oh boy, here goes". The reason is what has happened to you happened to me.

I started a thread on a different forum site entitled "I hate AR's". The initial post was this:

I absolutely hate it when I have a lane at the range next to somebody with an AR-15. And with as popular as the dang things are, this happens often.

The .223 round is disproportionately loud and obnoxious IMHO. I think being beside an AR is as bad or worse than being beside a .300 Win Mag with a muzzle brake. I shoot at an outdoor range and it still feels like the air around my head is exploding every time one of those rounds goes off. I normally just use foam ear plugs, but when I am next to an AR I put the cans on over the plugs. And I still jump about half the time.

And there's a new wrinkle, too. Lately it seems all the (new I guess) AR owners want to:

1. Use some sort of 1x optic, and
2. Sight in at 100 yards with no spotting scope.

Idiots.

I'm glad AR's are popular (I guess) and they look cool and whatnot, but I just don't want them anywhere near me on the range.

I didn't think the post was THAT inflammatory, and I had posted in the "bitching and moaning" forum anyway. But man, the dogpile that resulted was a lot more than I expected. 4 pages of pretty much 100% meanness. I was glad when it wound down finally.

So, brother, SOLIDARITY!!

I like the idea of limiting times/benches when/where the cannons can be shot, but I don't think any weapon should be banned at the range. Regardless, I don't have to enjoy sitting by it either, and I *certainly* don't have to *not* complain about it on a gun forum.

But I do have to put up with what happens when you provoke the ire of the gun-totin' crowd (a group in with which I happily toss my hat). And so, it seems, do you.

Good luck, and I recommend cans + plugs for the boy.

-cls

[curmudgeon1]

The braked .338, .50 BMG and mag-dump AR shooters at the range(s) I frequent do give consideration for other shooters by taking up firing positions outside the covered half of the range. That makes the noise a little more tolerable, not being in a confined space.
Now ...... about those shotgun shooters at indoor pistol ranges .......

[NESHOOTER]

No I would enjoy it as a education of the best big bore shooting ever, yes I don't own one have shot'em from time to time and depending on my muzzle brake of choice my 7mm mag is loud sound and can put some rearward muzzle blast that even I feel. I would say public/private if the range is ok with them so am I.

[Tom68]

jjyergler.... I'm wicha on the M2. had the gun right next to mine blow up once-- improper headspacing I'm sure--but it bowed the feed tray cover up about 20 degrees. now THAT got my attention! luckily neither the shooter nor the AG was hurt.

but back on topic, I have yet to find anyone shooting a .50 at a public range near me. When that day comes, I'll use plugs and muffs, and certainly will hold what i'm doing in order to watch for awhile. And....if the shooter happens to be anyone on this forum, why, yes, I'd be happy to squeeze off a few rounds!

[Achilles11B]

That's the price you pay for using a public range...it's open to the public.

While I can only imagine the unpleasantness of being in a booth next to someone using a .50BMG, he has the same right as you to be there.

FWIW, in MO, the local public ranges are ran by the Department of Conservation, which bans the usage of .50 BMG firearms. If you're unhappy with .50's at the range you go to, perhaps another range might be a better fit.

[briandg]

I seem to make a lot of people mad here just by being who I am. I might as well go for the record.

A 50 bmg with a brake is so far off the scale compared to any other gun that there's no comparing it to other obnoxious shooters. Get one of those things under a tin roof, and it will go way beyond obnoxious.

Ban them from the range? I'm not going to argue against that.

I think a better solution would be for the range to be equipped with a few stalls. 6-8 feet tall walls that would contain the violent blast of gasses, and block some of the shock wave. I'm sure that won't be popular for the guy with the 50, because it will bounce a lot of that violence right back at him. If that bothers the guy with the fifty, tough pasta. he's being exposed to something that he would otherwise be exposing someone else to.

It would be a good idea if every range had a few of these, and magnum blasters were restricted to the booths.

So, just a couple of other points. If I don't buy $100 electronic muffs, I have no rights to use a public range?

I'd also like to point out that someone who brings something in like that and sets up next to another shooter has no manners whatever. It's people who have no manners that got smoking bans spread all across the world. people who can't play nice at the rifle range will wind up causiing bans on super guns. That simple.

[brmfan]

Why then don't non "blaster" shooters get behind such a protective wall? They'd still be out of the blast zone, the big bore shooters wouldn't get double punished, and everyone would be groovy... unless you just like to whine and complain.

[semi_problomatic]

Electric earmuffs - $26-$37
Foam ear plugs - $0.25-$0.50
Keeping your hearing - priceless

But even if you do buy the $100 muffs, if you're at a gun range, or shooting guns at all...don't you want to protect your hearing? Especially at a gun range. Just because your plugs block the sound of your .22LR, doesn't mean it'll block the sound of my 45-70...

And, as the OP stated, he sat next to the .50, the .50 did not come to him.

[K_Mac]

I also think the OP has a legitimate point. When .50BMGs are banned at the public range near you, come back and re-read this thread. It is very instructive IMO. A .50 is not a standard rifle and those of you who shoot them understand that better than the rest of us. Those of you who don't understand, or care that special attention to those around you is needed when shooting one are the problem, not the weapon.

Taking a high performance boat out on a public lake on a busy summer weekend to see what it will do may be legal, but it is a bad idea. A lot of people don't seem to understand that either...

[briandg]

Why then don't non "blaster" shooters get behind such a protective wall? They'd still be out of the blast zone, the big bore shooters wouldn't get double punished, and everyone would be groovy... unless you just like to whine and complain.

Wow, the personal shots started with the very next post!

Well, first, why put non blasters into walls? Gee, probably because there are budgetary constraints, and most ranges will only put up a couple of booths. Second, do you really think that screwing with the majority of the people, just so a few people can have a little more freedom and convenience is right?


SO DOES SARAH BRADY. You're in good company, I guess.


Let's role play a little. Imagine that the guy sitting next to you in stalled traffic is playing Killer Krush's latest rap CD, titled "suck my wee wee" at about 1,000 watts, so loud that you can't even hear the coal train that is passing.

Go ahead, tell me that you would congratulate him for exercising his rights. Tell me about how everyone in traffic there should buy electronic hearing protectors, because he likes to use bazooka speakers, and he has a right to.

I don't know how to solve this problem, but the one sure way to fix it all is just ban them. If people with fifites make enough people mad, they will be banned, because for every BMG shooter there will be hundreds that don't, and that range is going to respond to the majority.

Now that I see the attitude people with big guns take regarding people who just want to shoot their puny little squirrel poppers, I'm going start emailing the operators of local ranges suggesting that they ban fifties from the firing lines.

[brmfan]

As for personal shots, YOU said that fifty's and shooters implied were beyond obnoxious, so it it was you who hurled the first insult:

A 50 bmg with a brake is so far off the scale compared to any other gun that there's no comparing it to other obnoxious shooters. Get one of those things under a tin roof, and it will go way beyond obnoxious.

The wall idea was also yours! And suggesting that making it unbearable for fifty shooters so that they would not want to shoot anymore... and you want to talk about an attitude problem??

I think a better solution would be for the range to be equipped with a few stalls. 6-8 feet tall walls that would contain the violent blast of gasses, and block some of the shock wave. I'm sure that won't be popular for the guy with the 50, because it will bounce a lot of that violence right back at him. If that bothers the guy with the fifty, tough pasta. he's being exposed to something that he would otherwise be exposing someone else to.

Shooting ranges are often loud and the fact is most public ranges already prohibit fifty's. And yet you claim .50 shooters who are lucky to even find a range that does allow them to shoot are the ones imposing on those that shoot small bore? Seriously!!?? Maybe if people were not so hyper sensitive and quick to be offended there would be more places available for big bore shooters to enjoy their range time without imposing on the masses of "squirrel poppers":

Second, do you really think that screwing with the majority of the people, just so a few people can have a little more freedom and convenience is right?

Talk about buying a house next to an airport then complaining about the noise!

As for the music analogy, being trapped in traffic versus a public range where you can come and go as you please. Not once did you suggest actually asking a fifty user if they could hold off until the crowd thins out or move to the end of the firing line. You choose to be there, and you already have considerably more opportunities to shoot at a public range than fifty shooters!

And trying to equate big bore shooters with Sarah Brady... and then threatening to personally help take away some peoples' right to use a type of firearm you just happen to object to just because they're too loud in your opinion?? You can't be serious! Tell that to Ronnie Barrett!!

Ban them from the range? I'm not going to argue against that.

You clearly have a personal bias and an agenda against big bore shooters. This was evident from your earlier post before claiming to be insulted enough to make you want to personally work towards taking away some peoples' already overly restricted rights:

Now that I see the attitude people with big guns take regarding people who just want to shoot their puny little squirrel poppers, I'm going start emailing the operators of local ranges suggesting that they ban fifties from the firing lines.

Well have at it then. BTW, the VAST majority of people I run into at the range think the 50 bmg is cool as hell and are thrilled to fire it. I try to be considerate of others and nobody has complained so far, so have fun with your gun ban fantasy. Make sure to let us know how well that goes for you!

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont shoot at public ranges much anymore as i have my own but back years ago i was at a range that i was a member of and was shooting my 475 and 500 linebaugh. About 50 yards away behind me there was a group of guys practicing on the skeet range. they were the typical skeet shooters with there docker panys and shinny shoes and expensive over unders. two of them actually came up to me and told me i had to quit shooting because my gun was distracting them. I promtly told them were to stick there pretty guns. I think they somehow thought they were a bit better then me. About a 1/2 hour later an older guy came up to me that had been sitting there by his car just watching. turns out he was the father of one of those idiots. He appologized for the others ignorance. We talked a bit about my guns and he wanted to try them. He started shooting my 475 with midrange loads and loved it. Funny thing is when he did it his son and the others got so ****** off they packed up theres stuff and stomped off to the club house. the president of our gun club came out to get my side of it and ended up shooting with the father and me. Bottom line is that anyone that paid there range fee or club dues has just as much right as you do at that range and if it bothers you pack up and shoot another day. In my case it would have been differnt if they were shooting competition. I surely would have not started shooting to begin with. Unless a range has a specific rule agaist shooting something its not up to you to make one.