CCI Primers only in lee auto prime, Really?

BondoBob · May 10, 2020, 05:29 PM

I read in the Lee manual that you can only use CCI primers in their auto prime tool. Is that true? Is this just some marketing alliance thing, or is there a real safety concern? I will be using this tool, or at least I was intending too. In my area Winchester primers are much more available.

Thanks,

kilotanker22 · May 10, 2020, 05:59 PM

For small primers Lee recommends CCI or Remington 7 1/2 primers. I have the auto prime and the bench prime. Both come with the same warning. Luckily, all ai use are CCI primers for the most part.

I seriously doubt that they would claim it could be dangerous if it wasn't

Mike38 · May 10, 2020, 06:49 PM

Is the Lee Auto Prime the hand held device? If so, I primed thousands of cases using Winchester primers without a problem. That is until the thumb lever broke, then I switched to the Lee press mount system. But same there, tens of thousands of rounds on the press mount with Winchester primers.

tlm225 · May 10, 2020, 08:51 PM

I've had no problems with Winchester primers in my autoprimes for 30+ years.

Old 454 · May 10, 2020, 11:12 PM

The story I heard on this is that during testing CCI and Remington were the only ones that supplied primers so they only recommend these primers

BondoBob · May 11, 2020, 09:00 AM

I would think that if any primers were more volatile than others, that would be an issue in a tube stack situation. The auto primer basically lays them out in a tray flat, just like the packaging when they are shipped. So, maybe I'll just get the winchesters that are available here and be very careful.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 11, 2020, 11:02 AM

The original Autoprime fed primers from a round tray and there wasn't a cut-off to prevent having the next primer sitting immediately in adjacent contact with the one you are setting. I'm sure Lee was concerned about the possibility of setting off the entire tray. Their recommendations changed over the years. When I bought my first (old-style) Autoprime, they said to use ONLY Winchester or CCI, and to never put more than 20 primers in the tray at once. A couple/few years later I bought another, so I could leave it set up for small pistol, and the recommendation had changed. They still listed CCI as okay, but Winchester was out and had been replaced by some other brand. (Don't remember whose.)

I've done tens of thousands of Winchester large pistol primers with my old-style Autoprime, and several thousand Winchester small pistol primers with the other old-style Autoprime. I do adhere religiously to not putting more than 20 in the tray at once, and I wear eye and ear protection when priming, but so far I haven't had a problem.

The new Autoprime, which I don't own, apparently incorporates some kind of cut-off so there's not supposed to be another primer sitting next to the one you're setting. Since I've never seen one of the new ones up close and personal, I don't know just how that functions.

One of the selling points for the new one is that you can now drop a full 100 primers onto the rectangular tray at once. I have seen the new tray, and I don't like it. Once the primers have been deposited, the idea is to let them all slide down to the half of the tray closer to the priming tool, then you flip over the other half of the tray and lock it closed. But the "hinge" isn't a true hinge, it's what is laughingly referred to as a "live" hinge -- which means you're just folding the plastic. You know that's only good for 'X' number of cycles before it breaks.

**Unclenick** · May 11, 2020, 11:36 AM

The reasons are written down in the late Richard Lee's book Modern Reloading 2nd ed, pages 82 through 85. Lee says:

"Lee spends many hours on the phone and thousands of dollars advertising and advising customers that the only safe primers to use with the Lee tray primer feeders are CCI or certain Winchester types {and Remington types added in the Second Edition}. We have been accused of playing favorites, taking handouts, and simply being unreasonable. None of these are the case. We do not want anyone to get hurt.

"We do not think that other brands are inferior or more powerful. They simply are not safe to use with the Lee Auto Prime {because of the automatic tray feed}…

"…A single exception: a primer explosion guard is available for the Lee Load-Master {so you can use any primer with that in place}."

And, though part of the last paragraph, what is an overall exception:

"Should you use primers other than those recommended at the end of this chapter, be sure that you feed them one at a time."

Lee's list of safe primers for multiple loading in the trays from the 2nd edition, which he notes he modified since the first edition and that is where Remington came in, is:

A full tray of 100 primers:
All CCI sizes
Winchester WSP
Remington 2½
Remington 5½

A partial tray with no more than 20 primers:
Winchester WLP
Winchester WSPM
Winchester WLRM

A partial tray with no more than 10 primers:
Winchester WLR

BJung · May 11, 2020, 04:11 PM

I've been prepping my cases for the last week and have used all three small pistol primers above. The ones I've had double stacking problems or a primer flipping sideways or upside down in my old Lee Hand Primer has been the Winchesters. For Remington 9mm brass and Winchester primers, I noticed a slight indentation from hand primer's seating pin. This is just my observations after seating 2000 primers, mostly Winchester, Remington, and CCI.

BJung · May 11, 2020, 04:13 PM

Correction: 4 primer brands

45 long · May 11, 2020, 04:38 PM

I think the only brand of primer that Lee discourages the use of is Federal.

Metal god · May 12, 2020, 04:32 AM

Ok i just watched a video on the new auto prime . First is that the one we are talking about ? If so what makes it more dangerous or more likely to have issues with certain primers then the RCBS universal primer or hornady hand primer ?

I never looked to see if either of those recomend against any types of primers but have loaded many thousands of primers with those two . Incuding Fed SP and LP , both Win sp & LR as well as all types of CCI . You all are freaking me out a bit . I do wear a leather glove when hand priming for a little protection just in case .

BondoBob · May 12, 2020, 11:36 AM

Well my Breech Lock Challenger kit comes with the new Lee Auto Prime #90230. I think the book calls it the XR, but mine doesn't say that. The Lee manual says it can be used with any brand of primer including Federal. This is because it segregates the one being pressed from the rest via an elevator feed system. The O press also has the on-press priming but that is one at a time handheld. I'll probably just get what I can, CCI, Winchester or Remington but no Federal. Should I use latex or nitrile gloves handling the primers if I do it on press? Or is that not necessary? I read somewhere oil from our skin can foul the primer.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 12, 2020, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

Ok i just watched a video on the new auto prime . First is that the one we are talking about ? If so what makes it more dangerous or more likely to have issues with certain primers then the RCBS universal primer or hornady hand primer ?

The new (current) Lee Auto Prime has no restrictions other than regarding Federal primers. This is because they redesigned the primer feed to incorporate a positive cutoff between the primer tray and the priming ram. The instructions for the current Auto Prime read:

Quote:

The new Auto Prime (patented) is designed to reduce the likelihood of a mass detonation when priming cases. This is accomplished by remotely locating the mass of primers during the priming operation. A separate elevator raises a single primer from the tray and presents it for priming. We have tested the tool by intentionally setting off a variety of brands and types of primers. Our testing has demonstrated that wearing safety glasses and hearing protection will prevent serious injury. However, all types of FEDERAL BRAND LARGE PRIMERS frequently caused the entire tray to explode with sufficient force to cause serious and painful injuries. These primers must be fed individually, see step 7, single priming option.

Video showing the old (original) Lee Auto Prime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t16cZbDNCK4

Video showing the new Lee Auto Prime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8Oia_0ZGw

BondoBob · May 12, 2020, 12:16 PM

I do remember reading those cautions regarding non CCI primers in the beginning of the Lee Manual 2nd edition. But later on page 33 it says "The new Lee Safety Auto Prime can be used with all brand of primers including Federal". I have that one. And it says you can use any primer one at a time, on press. So, I guess I'll just avoid the Federal which are apparently very sensitive and use Winchester or Remington if CCI can't be had.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 12, 2020, 12:21 PM

The instructions for the new Auto Prime that I quoted above were taken from the Lee web site today, so IMHO that's more current than anything you'll find in the 2d edition of the book.

BondoBob · May 12, 2020, 12:34 PM

Aguila, Yeah that's the one I have, model #90230. Thanks,

Metal god · May 12, 2020, 01:02 PM

Thanks . Both my hand primers are like the old model . There is nothing separating the primer being inserted and the the rest in the tray . I sure love how well my RCBS universal primer works with not needing any shell holders . It holds 9mm , 45acp in the same clamping/holding system . I actually have two of them so I can have one for small primers and the other for large primers so I don’t need to switch out the inserts for each .

I’m however going to take a closer look at this auto prime .

Rifletom · May 12, 2020, 01:52 PM

I read this when I started my handloading. Didn't like what I read regarding the Lee hand held primer thing, so, bought and have used a RCBS version. Zero issues with any primer I use.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 12, 2020, 02:51 PM

The issue isn't with Lee's hand primer, the issue is with sensitive primers. I've been using Lee's old design for years and I haven't experienced any mishaps with either large or small pistol primers, but I load almost exclusively Winchester primers. (I did have a small batch of Remington primers several years ago, during one of the previous ammo shortages.)

Lee's new design Auto Prime should be safer than the RCBS, if the RCBS doesn't have a cutoff between the reservoir and the primer you're seating. I don't mind that aspect of the Lee. I just don't like the chintzy construction of the new, folding primer tray. That folding hinge WILL fail after 'X' number of cycles. It can't not fail -- it's inherent to the material characteristics of plastic.

Shadow9mm · May 16, 2020, 01:21 AM

i found mine prefers cci, however i have used winchester and remington. that said the win and rem primers seems to not fit or feed as well in the tool. I have to unjam a misfeed in the tool once or twice every 100 primers or so. kind of annoying but no a deal breaker.

Onward Allusion · May 16, 2020, 12:04 PM

Nonsense. Been using Winchester and CCI in mine since I'd started reloading.

308Loader · May 21, 2020, 05:57 PM

I have both the old and new hand primer. Never saw the warning about manufacture specific primers. The only time I have ever had a "accidental" primer detonation was when I knowingly forced a primer into a hole it did not want to go into. The affect was not simultaneously discharge the whole tray, just a pop. The way these are designed, the case should be pointed away from your face when seating the primer. The tray needs gravity to feed the next primer into the tool. If you don’t force the primer it should not pop. If primer seating sets off the primer, you have other problems not primer related.

I am not a lawyer or technical writer. Just a dude with stuff, reloading common cartages for my needs.

May 10, 2020, 05:29 PM	#1
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	CCI Primers only in lee auto prime, Really? I read in the Lee manual that you can only use CCI primers in their auto prime tool. Is that true? Is this just some marketing alliance thing, or is there a real safety concern? I will be using this tool, or at least I was intending too. In my area Winchester primers are much more available. Thanks,

May 10, 2020, 05:59 PM	#2
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,127	For small primers Lee recommends CCI or Remington 7 1/2 primers. I have the auto prime and the bench prime. Both come with the same warning. Luckily, all ai use are CCI primers for the most part. I seriously doubt that they would claim it could be dangerous if it wasn't __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

May 10, 2020, 08:51 PM	#4
tlm225 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 976	I've had no problems with Winchester primers in my autoprimes for 30+ years. __________________ All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

May 11, 2020, 11:02 AM	#7
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,051	The original Autoprime fed primers from a round tray and there wasn't a cut-off to prevent having the next primer sitting immediately in adjacent contact with the one you are setting. I'm sure Lee was concerned about the possibility of setting off the entire tray. Their recommendations changed over the years. When I bought my first (old-style) Autoprime, they said to use ONLY Winchester or CCI, and to never put more than 20 primers in the tray at once. A couple/few years later I bought another, so I could leave it set up for small pistol, and the recommendation had changed. They still listed CCI as okay, but Winchester was out and had been replaced by some other brand. (Don't remember whose.) I've done tens of thousands of Winchester large pistol primers with my old-style Autoprime, and several thousand Winchester small pistol primers with the other old-style Autoprime. I do adhere religiously to not putting more than 20 in the tray at once, and I wear eye and ear protection when priming, but so far I haven't had a problem. The new Autoprime, which I don't own, apparently incorporates some kind of cut-off so there's not supposed to be another primer sitting next to the one you're setting. Since I've never seen one of the new ones up close and personal, I don't know just how that functions. One of the selling points for the new one is that you can now drop a full 100 primers onto the rectangular tray at once. I have seen the new tray, and I don't like it. Once the primers have been deposited, the idea is to let them all slide down to the half of the tray closer to the priming tool, then you flip over the other half of the tray and lock it closed. But the "hinge" isn't a true hinge, it's what is laughingly referred to as a "live" hinge -- which means you're just folding the plastic. You know that's only good for 'X' number of cycles before it breaks. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

May 11, 2020, 11:36 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	The reasons are written down in the late Richard Lee's book Modern Reloading 2nd ed, pages 82 through 85. Lee says: "Lee spends many hours on the phone and thousands of dollars advertising and advising customers that the only safe primers to use with the Lee tray primer feeders are CCI or certain Winchester types {and Remington types added in the Second Edition}. We have been accused of playing favorites, taking handouts, and simply being unreasonable. None of these are the case. We do not want anyone to get hurt. "We do not think that other brands are inferior or more powerful. They simply are not safe to use with the Lee Auto Prime {because of the automatic tray feed}… "…A single exception: a primer explosion guard is available for the Lee Load-Master {so you can use any primer with that in place}." And, though part of the last paragraph, what is an overall exception: "Should you use primers other than those recommended at the end of this chapter, be sure that you feed them one at a time." Lee's list of safe primers for multiple loading in the trays from the 2nd edition, which he notes he modified since the first edition and that is where Remington came in, is: A full tray of 100 primers: All CCI sizes Winchester WSP Remington 2½ Remington 5½ A partial tray with no more than 20 primers: Winchester WLP Winchester WSPM Winchester WLRM A partial tray with no more than 10 primers: Winchester WLR __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 10, 2020, 06:49 PM	#3
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,758	Is the Lee Auto Prime the hand held device? If so, I primed thousands of cases using Winchester primers without a problem. That is until the thumb lever broke, then I switched to the Lee press mount system. But same there, tens of thousands of rounds on the press mount with Winchester primers.

May 10, 2020, 11:12 PM	#5
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 839	The story I heard on this is that during testing CCI and Remington were the only ones that supplied primers so they only recommend these primers

May 11, 2020, 09:00 AM	#6
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	I would think that if any primers were more volatile than others, that would be an issue in a tube stack situation. The auto primer basically lays them out in a tray flat, just like the packaging when they are shipped. So, maybe I'll just get the winchesters that are available here and be very careful.

May 11, 2020, 04:11 PM	#9
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 849	Rem, CCI, Win, and Federal I've been prepping my cases for the last week and have used all three small pistol primers above. The ones I've had double stacking problems or a primer flipping sideways or upside down in my old Lee Hand Primer has been the Winchesters. For Remington 9mm brass and Winchester primers, I noticed a slight indentation from hand primer's seating pin. This is just my observations after seating 2000 primers, mostly Winchester, Remington, and CCI.

May 11, 2020, 04:13 PM	#10
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 849	Correction Correction: 4 primer brands

May 11, 2020, 04:38 PM	#11
45 long Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2020 Posts: 8	I think the only brand of primer that Lee discourages the use of is Federal.

May 12, 2020, 04:32 AM	#12
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 7,135	Ok i just watched a video on the new auto prime . First is that the one we are talking about ? If so what makes it more dangerous or more likely to have issues with certain primers then the RCBS universal primer or hornady hand primer ? I never looked to see if either of those recomend against any types of primers but have loaded many thousands of primers with those two . Incuding Fed SP and LP , both Win sp & LR as well as all types of CCI . You all are freaking me out a bit . I do wear a leather glove when hand priming for a little protection just in case . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

May 12, 2020, 11:36 AM	#13
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Well my Breech Lock Challenger kit comes with the new Lee Auto Prime #90230. I think the book calls it the XR, but mine doesn't say that. The Lee manual says it can be used with any brand of primer including Federal. This is because it segregates the one being pressed from the rest via an elevator feed system. The O press also has the on-press priming but that is one at a time handheld. I'll probably just get what I can, CCI, Winchester or Remington but no Federal. Should I use latex or nitrile gloves handling the primers if I do it on press? Or is that not necessary? I read somewhere oil from our skin can foul the primer.

May 12, 2020, 12:16 PM	#15
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	I do remember reading those cautions regarding non CCI primers in the beginning of the Lee Manual 2nd edition. But later on page 33 it says "The new Lee Safety Auto Prime can be used with all brand of primers including Federal". I have that one. And it says you can use any primer one at a time, on press. So, I guess I'll just avoid the Federal which are apparently very sensitive and use Winchester or Remington if CCI can't be had.

May 12, 2020, 12:21 PM	#16
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,051	The instructions for the new Auto Prime that I quoted above were taken from the Lee web site today, so IMHO that's more current than anything you'll find in the 2d edition of the book. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

May 12, 2020, 12:34 PM	#17
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Aguila, Yeah that's the one I have, model #90230. Thanks,

May 12, 2020, 01:02 PM	#18
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 7,135	Thanks . Both my hand primers are like the old model . There is nothing separating the primer being inserted and the the rest in the tray . I sure love how well my RCBS universal primer works with not needing any shell holders . It holds 9mm , 45acp in the same clamping/holding system . I actually have two of them so I can have one for small primers and the other for large primers so I don’t need to switch out the inserts for each . I’m however going to take a closer look at this auto prime . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

May 12, 2020, 01:52 PM	#19
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 805	I read this when I started my handloading. Didn't like what I read regarding the Lee hand held primer thing, so, bought and have used a RCBS version. Zero issues with any primer I use.

May 12, 2020, 02:51 PM	#20
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,051	The issue isn't with Lee's hand primer, the issue is with sensitive primers. I've been using Lee's old design for years and I haven't experienced any mishaps with either large or small pistol primers, but I load almost exclusively Winchester primers. (I did have a small batch of Remington primers several years ago, during one of the previous ammo shortages.) Lee's new design Auto Prime should be safer than the RCBS, if the RCBS doesn't have a cutoff between the reservoir and the primer you're seating. I don't mind that aspect of the Lee. I just don't like the chintzy construction of the new, folding primer tray. That folding hinge WILL fail after 'X' number of cycles. It can't not fail -- it's inherent to the material characteristics of plastic. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

May 16, 2020, 01:21 AM	#21
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 4,603	i found mine prefers cci, however i have used winchester and remington. that said the win and rem primers seems to not fit or feed as well in the tool. I have to unjam a misfeed in the tool once or twice every 100 primers or so. kind of annoying but no a deal breaker.

May 16, 2020, 12:04 PM	#22
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	Nonsense. Been using Winchester and CCI in mine since I'd started reloading. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

May 21, 2020, 05:57 PM	#23
308Loader Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2014 Location: Minnesota Posts: 639	I have both the old and new hand primer. Never saw the warning about manufacture specific primers. The only time I have ever had a "accidental" primer detonation was when I knowingly forced a primer into a hole it did not want to go into. The affect was not simultaneously discharge the whole tray, just a pop. The way these are designed, the case should be pointed away from your face when seating the primer. The tray needs gravity to feed the next primer into the tool. If you don’t force the primer it should not pop. If primer seating sets off the primer, you have other problems not primer related. I am not a lawyer or technical writer. Just a dude with stuff, reloading common cartages for my needs. __________________ Just a dude with stuff.