ATTENTION: LWRCI Piston Gun Owners

[BPowderkeg]

So did you change it out and try it yet? It would be interesting to see if there is any difference, especially since you have an old design and new design spring.

yes, the spring has been installed and will be shooting both carbines with new springs, but i doubt if i'll be able to notice any difference as the one gun has a two stage trigger and an Enidine hydraulic buffer plus it is almost two pounds heavier.

[BPowderkeg]

C.H., i replaced the spring and the rifle functions perfectly..., BUT !! to me that is irrelevant, here's the gig, http://www.lwrci.com/t-warranty.aspx

LWRCI™ products are warranted to be free from defective materials and workmanship for life of the original purchaser. LWRCI™ obligation under this warranty shall be limited to (1) repairing or (2) replacing any product upon inspection at LWRCI™ and based on its discretion, is found to defective in material or in workmanship.

in my OPINION that spring falls within the "defective materials" in the warranty, then they say the spring should be replaced every 3,000 rounds fired and we have to BUY a new spring.., BULLSKEET !! that spring should be covered under the warranty and at NO charge to the owner of the rifle.

there is no other "gun maker" who warrants their product for life then tells you, you have to buy parts that are broken or worn out due to "defective materials", AND..., that spring when needed to be replaced at regular intervals is "DEFECTIVE", IF.., say for instance the bolt and barrel extension lugs wore out after 5,000 rounds we have to buy a new barrel and bolt ????? once more.., BULLSKEET

i agree some parts on any gun do wear out and need to be replaced, but only after 3,000 rounds ?? gimme a farking break !! there is NOTHING in the manual i got with the gun that says certain parts in the gun will break/fail after 3,000 rounds and must be replaced and purchased by the owner, i would think that a "life time warranty" means just exactly that !

IF there are any..., and i am certain there are some LWRCI lurkers here, please try to explain why your "life time warranty" isn't worth a shiite when we have to buy on a regular basis your crappy springs to keep the gun functioning and operable !!

[johnwilliamson062]

I see what you are saying and will think about it, but my initial reaction is, "Actually quite a few varmint chamberings wear out the barrel in 3,000 rounds and no company pays for new barrels." Just an initial reaction though.

[BPowderkeg]

I see what you are saying and will think about it, but my initial reaction is, "Actually quite a few varmint chamberings wear out the barrel in 3,000 rounds and no company pays for new barrels." Just an initial reaction though.

yes sir, i fully understand, much to my chagrin, i sold a Sako Vixen .222 Rem. L-46 action many years ago because i shot out the barrel in close to 7,000 rnds., but Sako claimed no "life time warranty"

here is another point i would like to make about springs, how many springs will you find in any AR-15/M4 lower ? how many of them do the various Mfgrs. of these guns recommend them to be changed at regular intervals ? NONE !!

BTW AR-15's have 8 springs in them,

1. Bolt Catch Spring

2. Buffer Detent Spring

3. Disconnector Spring

4. Hammer Spring

5. Magazine Catch Spring

6. Safety Detent Spring

7. Take Down Pin Spring

8. Trigger Spring

[johnwilliamson062]

So you think they should pay for shot out barrels if they have a lifetime warranty?

[BPowderkeg]

please sir, let's stay on topic.., which is SPRINGS !! OK ?

how many springs in an AR-15/M4 do the various Mfgrs. of these guns recommend them to be changed at regular intervals ?

this is the question that needs answering, so if you would, please stay with me on the spring issue.

when buying ANY gun with a lifetime warranty, what do you expect from their "lifetime warranty" ?? for me it means every, and i mean EVERY part of that gun is warranted right down to the very smallest part which is that tiny "C" clip on the end of rod of the dust cover !!

[johnwilliamson062]

The issue here is what you expect from a warranty.
I am not sure what most manufacturers suggest for ARs, but I know most people that own ARs and shoot them a lot have spare springs, extractors, etc.

It's like expecting your cars warranty to include tires and oil changes.

[Crow Hunter]

how many springs in an AR-15/M4 do the various Mfgrs. of these guns recommend them to be changed at regular intervals ?

The springs that you listed aren't very high wear items and can more easily be "over engineered" without affecting function.

Here is a recommended PMS interval for the M4:

2,500 round interval,
Inspect and replace as necessary extractor spring, insert and O-ring

5,000 round interval
Replace extractor spring
Replace extractor insert
Replace extractor
Replace Crane O-ring
Replace gas rings
Replace action spring

10,000 round interval
Replace bolt
Replace lower receiver parts - (I assume this would include the springs since the they aren't specifically excluded)

15,000 round interval
Replace barrel

Of course, YMMV.

I don't know that I have ever seen this info in a manual. I think this info is normally directed to armorers for preventative maintenance. You can go longer than what is posted above, but you will have to know what to look for when something is bad/getting ready to fail.

In manufacturing when setting up PM schedules on equipment, we try to shoot for 85% of the expected usable life of the component for some "safety factor" for variability in manufacturing the component. I am sure you are even more familiar with this than I am based on your previous work experience.

when buying ANY gun with a lifetime warranty, what do you expect from their "lifetime warranty" ?? for me it means every, and i mean EVERY part of that gun is warranted right down to the very smallest part which is that tiny "C" clip on the end of rod of the dust cover !!

To me, a lifetime warranty means that if it fails due to a defect either in construction or assembly, it is a warranty issue. A defect meaning something is not manufactured to the specification. In the case of springs, wrong material, bad heat treat, wrong ID/OD something like that.

If the expected life of a component is X number of rounds and it fails at that point or later, it isn't a warranty issue. If it fails earlier for a defineable defect, it is a warranty issue.

This specifically would not include a wear item that failed due to use.

Now if it is a "guarantee", that is a different story.

[BPowderkeg]

The issue here is what you expect from a warranty.

RIGHT ON !! i have an old Colt AR-15 SP-1 made in 1974ad, i have no idea how many rounds have been fired thru it, but i would guess it is over 10,000.., NOT one part in that rifle has ever been replaced due to wear, breakage or any other malfunction.

If the expected life of a component is X number of rounds and it fails at that point or later, it isn't a warranty issue. If it fails earlier for a defineable defect, it is a warranty issue.

agreed.., BUT ! i believe the company (any company) should have an unconditional ONE YEAR warranty, rather than a "life time" warranty which in my OPINION is worthless if they will not replace broken parts during the "life time" of the owner or rifle.

i guess i expect too much from a "life time" warranty, so i suppose i need to buy two identical rifles, one for shooting and one for parts

i believe this topic has run it's course and this is all i got to say, unless someone has a reply that needs addressing.

[johnwilliamson062]

an unconditional ONE YEAR warranty

Newegg.com used to do this. I had a buddy who just so happened to drop his lap top around day 360. Unconditional warranties are pretty easy to take advantage of, heck in some states and warranty at all is pretty hard for the company if the consumer pursues things. Why Ruger does it the way they do.