Does the Mosin Nagant have a chance? - Page 3

bennnn · January 23, 2007, 08:26 PM

Thanks for the barrel band info guys....

I'm having trouble finding the grinding coumpound I need to recrown the barrel, I thought it would be something I could just pick up on my way home from work, but no dice.... If I can't find any around here tonight, I'm going to go with some valve grinding compound.
Does anyone have any alternatives?
I have to get the recrown done before Friday, I've made plans for an all afternoon shooting session, and I'd like to take this project with me and see how the improvements worked out...

I used the method in this link; http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...gger/index.asp to lighten up the trigger pull, and I'm glad to say that it works great.. It was a trial and error sort of thing to find out how much was enough/too much,, but once I got it right, I could tell the difference right away, I dry fired it onto a spent shell several times before and after,, +1 for the spring shim method...

Hedley · January 24, 2007, 04:36 PM

Ok Ben, I'm not going to lie to you. When I first pulled that fence post you sent me out of the box, I thought it was a near lost cause. But after about six hours of cosmo sweating(had to use a heat gun since I don't have a Mosin-friendly oven), rough sanding(the area near the receiver was splintered and chipped really bad) and steaming, I think we're going to have a real beauty. It had a lot of cosmo and years of oil soaked into it.

Here she is after all the steaming and ding removal. All the dark spots are the raised dents, which should just sand away once I start working on it.

I think it looks pretty cool with the polished retainer springs and sling grommets.

What's funny is that ever square inch of this stock is covered in gouges, dents, and dings, but the fore-end is exceptionally dent free.

And I iron with chrome, or I don't iron at all.

Red Tornado · January 24, 2007, 04:39 PM

I did the shim job on my 91/30 and it helped some. I just got a 'new' M38 and did this as well as the shims.

My 91/30 took 6 aluminum can shims, and I used 7 on the M38. After all is said and done, the M38 trigger is amazing. I don't have a trigger pull gauge but the the pull was probably less than half of what it started at.

I don't have calipers, so I barely trimmed the spring, but smoothing it with everything else will give you a really nice trigger pull.
RT

bennnn · January 24, 2007, 10:13 PM

Hell yeah, thanks for that link!! I'm going to give that a shot, one more item for the "free" list on this rifle...

I shimmed with some 28ga. aluminum sheetmetal. But it got me thinking,,,
could you take any mosin trigger spring and make it adjustable,, if you just made a new spring with a set screw in front of the trigger....??

I know someone who could probably make a few ........

bennnn · January 24, 2007, 10:39 PM

Well, I'm back from recrowning school....
It was actually really easy. If you can use a drill, and see straight, it's just a matter of watching what you're doing....

Here's what I started with,,

And after...

burnera · January 25, 2007, 01:54 AM

kinda strange, but my mosin trigger feels pretty great for a war rifle. The sear lets go with a positive 'click', no grinding or dragging of any sort.

270Win · January 25, 2007, 02:56 AM

I agree - Mosin triggers tend to be pretty good for battle rifles.

Red Tornado · January 25, 2007, 11:18 AM

Some are pretty good, but there's a wide variance. There was quite a difference between my 91/30 and my M38. The beauty of it is, the Mosin trigger system is simple enough that non-gunsmiths, like myself, can seriously improve the trigger, without really risking damaging anything. (Plus replacement parts are only $10 if you do.) It's a pretty good feeling to cut your trigger pull in half with all work being done on the kitchen table.

Yes, in my hubris, I've elevated myself to the level of "Kitchen Table Gunsmith."

But I know my limits.
RT

bennnn · January 25, 2007, 09:39 PM

Can anybody give me any links or info about muzzle brake options for the 91/30??
I keep finding brakes for the re-worked carbines, like this one;
http://www.buymilsurp.com/store/cart...le+Accessories

I work with metals for a living, so I could make this one work, but I'd like to find something more discreet for a 91/30 if it's out there...

I have $125 left in the (pre-scope) budget for this rifle,, I already have the bedding compound, but I'd like to buy one of the adjustable triggers for it,, and I have to get the re-blue supplies..
So IF I add a brake, it needs to be around $50.....

Jimro · January 26, 2007, 09:30 PM

Neither the Russians or Finns put muzzle brakes on their rifles, but you can use any muzzle break designed for an AK/SKS firing 7.62x39 since the bullet diameters are the same. I'd use an AK74 style like this one http://www.markcarey.com/shopping/p/B000BD131G since it would reduce recoil better than the "slant" type AK47/AKM muzzlebrake.

Jimro

Csspecs · January 27, 2007, 02:12 AM

I thought muzzle brakes made the rifle louder? If so you might want to order the hearing aids right now.

The 7.62x54r is in a whole other class from the 7.62x39, an AK muzzle brake that hooks on with a set screw is going to be sent flying on the first shot. Short of it being screwed on I think you are asking for trouble.

p99guy · January 27, 2007, 10:14 AM

The 74 style break dont increase the noise for the firer as much as it does to people to either side of you...its one way to make that guy with the .300 Weatherby Magnum next bench over pack up his stuff and move

Hedley · January 27, 2007, 11:02 AM

That's why I got the M44 in the first place.

And Ben, if you get a comp, makes sure to weld or braze it on. I've heard nothing but bad things about the pin-on types.

bennnn · January 27, 2007, 08:54 PM

Alright, here's what the recrown and trigger shim did for this rifle...
Since the first two tests in post #22 before anything was done to this rifle were at 25 and 50, I backed it up to 75 yards to see if the "upgrades" would make a differance... If you check the pics in post #22, you'll see that it was shooting high and to the left, when I aimed at the center of the target..
I have not done anything to the sights yet at all, but the recrown changed the POI quite a bit, it got it shooting a lot closer to my POA..
This was the first group with a cold barrel; again, seated on the ground, no bench, from 75 yards.. I sure was happy to see those two in the same hole in the #9 ring, the winger in #7 was probably my fault..
Since this rifle is still sitting in the sporter stock, I'm not going to bench it untill I get the original stock back from Hedley, then I'll do one test before I bed it, and one after... After that,,I'll go ahead with the bolt mods and scope mounting...
The fun is just beginning...

Jimro · January 27, 2007, 11:05 PM

That's a fine group for 75 yards with iron sights out of an old warhorse!

Another thing to remember is that those Mosin's have a thin barrel, giving it a about five minutes to cool down between shots can help group sizes quit a bit

Bring a 22 so you don't get bored

Jimro

bennnn · January 27, 2007, 11:29 PM

Great info for the thread Jimro!! That group was shot with only bolt working time between shots, I'll try that next time out. This rifle is really starting to impress me. Keep in mind that I'm shooting for offhand 100 yard (open sight) accuracy with this project. I want to build it into a 100 yard "fun gun" for cheap plinking... (first)
I wish I could shoot my K-31 this cheap....
I used my SKS for cool down time today. But after I did the first "test" with the Mosin project, I waited about 10 minutes, and then I put another 50 rounds through it to see how it would act under a little stress.. I didn't want to let it get too hot, but I did one set of 35 rounds with no cool down time, other than loading and cocking (casually).. Actually, the only reason I stopped after 35 was because the heat waves off of the barrel/chamber were blurring the front sight so bad that I was starting to waste ammo....
After 35 rounds non-stop, it was too hot to handle,, I swear I started to be able to smell the stock material....

bennnn · January 29, 2007, 01:45 PM

A good friend of mine has just started getting into reloading. And since I started this project to see just how much accuracy I could squeeze out of this old rilfe, and restore it at the same time, I'm going to buy a set of dies to start making some target loads to use after it's all done. All that's left (pre-scope) is the reblue, and bedding the stock when Hedley gets finished.

So now I'm going to pick your brains about where to start with the handloads...

Hit me with as much info as you want.....

keebo52 · January 30, 2007, 05:12 PM

The first step is to slug your barrel so you can buy the proper size bullets. MN bores can range from .308 to .315. You need to use bullets that most closely match your bore size. I have a M44 with a .313 barrel that shoots .312 bullets much better than .311 while my others like .311 bullets. I've been able to find 7.62 bullet in .308, .310, .311 and .312 at MidwayUSA.com. I'm not sure if anyone makes 7.62 bullets larger than .312. Once you figure out what bullets to use just check any modern reloading manual for starting load data. Work your loads up from here to find the best recipe for your gun. I have 3 MN and they all like different loads. Caution: Do not use bullets larger than your bore size. This can result in excessively high pressure.

Hedley · January 31, 2007, 11:12 PM

Before anything:

After sanding, steaming, staining and prepping for the oil finish. I tested the tung on a small part and the color really pops. Will keep you updated.

And Ben- Clear your PM box out.

I don't have a C&R, so I don't think you can "lend" me any toys.

Pup10range · January 31, 2007, 11:19 PM

Dont blow my rifle up with the reloads!!! And that guy did a great job on the stock. Hope to see what you make out of that piece of crap. I would like to see the rifle fully assembled when you get the stock back.

bennnn · January 31, 2007, 11:22 PM

It's already blown out of proportion buddy....

But we're having fun with it, that's what counts,,,

hope the rifle, and me, pass the "test"....

Hedley · January 31, 2007, 11:51 PM

I just wiped the first coat of Formby's on it to show what it does. The pic makes it look crappy due to my kitchen's lighting in addition to the flash, but it changes from domnant red hues to golden hues when you change viewing angles in the light. I think it will be bad to the bone in bright sunlight. The only bad side is that the oil brings out all colors, watermarks and all. There are some dings that were too deep to pull with steam. I know, I've tried. I probably spent 4 hours on steaming alone, and this is the best I could get without getting too aggresive on that poor old wood. There was one big "worm hole that I actually filled with a mixture of wood glue and Mosin-stock-sawdust. But you wanted a Mosin and not a Weatherby, so my goal is just to get it as smooth and refined as possible, while still retaining its character of decade's past.

Before oil:

Close up after first coat:

Oh, and the "M" made it!

bennnn · February 1, 2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

I think it will be bad to the bone in bright sunlight.

That's where I'll be seeing the most of it man..

How'd the B do?

Hey Pup10range, do you want to come out and shoot "your" rifle one more time,, after we get it done??

When I get this rifle back in it's own stock, I'm going to bench it at 100 yds.
Then I'm going to see what the glass bedding does for it..

Saving up for a scope...

rem33 · February 1, 2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Does the Mosin Nagant have a chance?

Good enough to have a lot of fun with. When you can buy a rifle and ammo as cheap as you can for them it's good cheap fun whatever you do with it.
Never shot a Mosin but when I was a teen we would have a blast with a old 8MM Mauser shooting at ground squirrels. Was a steep hillside over looking a grain field we'd sit up high and try and shoot squirrels at several hundred yards. I am not sure we ever hit one as we were shooting a long ways we'd guess at the range and raise the open sights. Sometimes you never saw them run after but it was so far we could not tell if they were laying there or got back into the burrow. The gun was not what you would call accurate either, but we sure had a lot of fun making them run. We'd walk with .22's and kill plenty there but I think the 8MM was more fun. That area is all roof tops now.

bennnn · February 2, 2007, 09:05 PM

I got another case of ammo for this one today, it was in a sealed can that looked just like the one in post #1.. So I thought it was the same ammo...
But when I opened it up, it was all some yellow tipped stuff,,,
Can somebody tell me what the yellow tips mean? The can and the brass are the same as the last case, only thing different the tips...

January 24, 2007, 04:36 PM	#52
Hedley Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,279	Ok Ben, I'm not going to lie to you. When I first pulled that fence post you sent me out of the box, I thought it was a near lost cause. But after about six hours of cosmo sweating(had to use a heat gun since I don't have a Mosin-friendly oven), rough sanding(the area near the receiver was splintered and chipped really bad) and steaming, I think we're going to have a real beauty. It had a lot of cosmo and years of oil soaked into it. Here she is after all the steaming and ding removal. All the dark spots are the raised dents, which should just sand away once I start working on it. I think it looks pretty cool with the polished retainer springs and sling grommets. What's funny is that ever square inch of this stock is covered in gouges, dents, and dings, but the fore-end is exceptionally dent free. And I iron with chrome, or I don't iron at all. Last edited by Hedley; January 24, 2007 at 05:27 PM.

January 26, 2007, 09:30 PM	#60
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	muzzle breaks... Neither the Russians or Finns put muzzle brakes on their rifles, but you can use any muzzle break designed for an AK/SKS firing 7.62x39 since the bullet diameters are the same. I'd use an AK74 style like this one http://www.markcarey.com/shopping/p/B000BD131G since it would reduce recoil better than the "slant" type AK47/AKM muzzlebrake. Jimro

January 27, 2007, 11:02 AM	#63
Hedley Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,279	Loud you say? That's why I got the M44 in the first place. And Ben, if you get a comp, makes sure to weld or braze it on. I've heard nothing but bad things about the pin-on types.

January 30, 2007, 05:12 PM	#68
keebo52 Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Posts: 244	First step for reloading for a Mosin Nagant The first step is to slug your barrel so you can buy the proper size bullets. MN bores can range from .308 to .315. You need to use bullets that most closely match your bore size. I have a M44 with a .313 barrel that shoots .312 bullets much better than .311 while my others like .311 bullets. I've been able to find 7.62 bullet in .308, .310, .311 and .312 at MidwayUSA.com. I'm not sure if anyone makes 7.62 bullets larger than .312. Once you figure out what bullets to use just check any modern reloading manual for starting load data. Work your loads up from here to find the best recipe for your gun. I have 3 MN and they all like different loads. Caution: Do not use bullets larger than your bore size. This can result in excessively high pressure.

January 23, 2007, 08:26 PM	#51
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Thanks for the barrel band info guys.... I'm having trouble finding the grinding coumpound I need to recrown the barrel, I thought it would be something I could just pick up on my way home from work, but no dice.... If I can't find any around here tonight, I'm going to go with some valve grinding compound. Does anyone have any alternatives? I have to get the recrown done before Friday, I've made plans for an all afternoon shooting session, and I'd like to take this project with me and see how the improvements worked out... I used the method in this link; http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...gger/index.asp to lighten up the trigger pull, and I'm glad to say that it works great.. It was a trial and error sort of thing to find out how much was enough/too much,, but once I got it right, I could tell the difference right away, I dry fired it onto a spent shell several times before and after,, +1 for the spring shim method...

January 24, 2007, 04:39 PM	#53
Red Tornado Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 226	I did the shim job on my 91/30 and it helped some. I just got a 'new' M38 and did this as well as the shims. My 91/30 took 6 aluminum can shims, and I used 7 on the M38. After all is said and done, the M38 trigger is amazing. I don't have a trigger pull gauge but the the pull was probably less than half of what it started at. I don't have calipers, so I barely trimmed the spring, but smoothing it with everything else will give you a really nice trigger pull. RT

January 24, 2007, 10:13 PM	#54
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Hell yeah, thanks for that link!! I'm going to give that a shot, one more item for the "free" list on this rifle... I shimmed with some 28ga. aluminum sheetmetal. But it got me thinking,,, could you take any mosin trigger spring and make it adjustable,, if you just made a new spring with a set screw in front of the trigger....?? I know someone who could probably make a few ........

January 24, 2007, 10:39 PM	#55
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Well, I'm back from recrowning school.... It was actually really easy. If you can use a drill, and see straight, it's just a matter of watching what you're doing.... Here's what I started with,, And after...

January 25, 2007, 01:54 AM	#56
burnera Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 67	kinda strange, but my mosin trigger feels pretty great for a war rifle. The sear lets go with a positive 'click', no grinding or dragging of any sort.

January 25, 2007, 02:56 AM	#57
270Win Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: Damascus, Maryland Posts: 921	I agree - Mosin triggers tend to be pretty good for battle rifles.

January 25, 2007, 11:18 AM	#58
Red Tornado Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 226	Some are pretty good, but there's a wide variance. There was quite a difference between my 91/30 and my M38. The beauty of it is, the Mosin trigger system is simple enough that non-gunsmiths, like myself, can seriously improve the trigger, without really risking damaging anything. (Plus replacement parts are only $10 if you do.) It's a pretty good feeling to cut your trigger pull in half with all work being done on the kitchen table. Yes, in my hubris, I've elevated myself to the level of "Kitchen Table Gunsmith." But I know my limits. RT

January 25, 2007, 09:39 PM	#59
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Can anybody give me any links or info about muzzle brake options for the 91/30?? I keep finding brakes for the re-worked carbines, like this one; http://www.buymilsurp.com/store/cart...le+Accessories I work with metals for a living, so I could make this one work, but I'd like to find something more discreet for a 91/30 if it's out there... I have $125 left in the (pre-scope) budget for this rifle,, I already have the bedding compound, but I'd like to buy one of the adjustable triggers for it,, and I have to get the re-blue supplies.. So IF I add a brake, it needs to be around $50.....

January 27, 2007, 02:12 AM	#61
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	I thought muzzle brakes made the rifle louder? If so you might want to order the hearing aids right now. The 7.62x54r is in a whole other class from the 7.62x39, an AK muzzle brake that hooks on with a set screw is going to be sent flying on the first shot. Short of it being screwed on I think you are asking for trouble.

January 27, 2007, 10:14 AM	#62
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	The 74 style break dont increase the noise for the firer as much as it does to people to either side of you...its one way to make that guy with the .300 Weatherby Magnum next bench over pack up his stuff and move

January 27, 2007, 08:54 PM	#64
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Alright, here's what the recrown and trigger shim did for this rifle... Since the first two tests in post #22 before anything was done to this rifle were at 25 and 50, I backed it up to 75 yards to see if the "upgrades" would make a differance... If you check the pics in post #22, you'll see that it was shooting high and to the left, when I aimed at the center of the target.. I have not done anything to the sights yet at all, but the recrown changed the POI quite a bit, it got it shooting a lot closer to my POA.. This was the first group with a cold barrel; again, seated on the ground, no bench, from 75 yards.. I sure was happy to see those two in the same hole in the #9 ring, the winger in #7 was probably my fault.. Since this rifle is still sitting in the sporter stock, I'm not going to bench it untill I get the original stock back from Hedley, then I'll do one test before I bed it, and one after... After that,,I'll go ahead with the bolt mods and scope mounting... The fun is just beginning...

January 27, 2007, 11:05 PM	#65
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	That's a fine group for 75 yards with iron sights out of an old warhorse! Another thing to remember is that those Mosin's have a thin barrel, giving it a about five minutes to cool down between shots can help group sizes quit a bit Bring a 22 so you don't get bored Jimro

January 27, 2007, 11:29 PM	#66
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	Great info for the thread Jimro!! That group was shot with only bolt working time between shots, I'll try that next time out. This rifle is really starting to impress me. Keep in mind that I'm shooting for offhand 100 yard (open sight) accuracy with this project. I want to build it into a 100 yard "fun gun" for cheap plinking... (first) I wish I could shoot my K-31 this cheap.... I used my SKS for cool down time today. But after I did the first "test" with the Mosin project, I waited about 10 minutes, and then I put another 50 rounds through it to see how it would act under a little stress.. I didn't want to let it get too hot, but I did one set of 35 rounds with no cool down time, other than loading and cocking (casually).. Actually, the only reason I stopped after 35 was because the heat waves off of the barrel/chamber were blurring the front sight so bad that I was starting to waste ammo.... After 35 rounds non-stop, it was too hot to handle,, I swear I started to be able to smell the stock material....

January 29, 2007, 01:45 PM	#67
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	A good friend of mine has just started getting into reloading. And since I started this project to see just how much accuracy I could squeeze out of this old rilfe, and restore it at the same time, I'm going to buy a set of dies to start making some target loads to use after it's all done. All that's left (pre-scope) is the reblue, and bedding the stock when Hedley gets finished. So now I'm going to pick your brains about where to start with the handloads... Hit me with as much info as you want.....

January 31, 2007, 11:12 PM	#69
Hedley Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,279	Before anything: After sanding, steaming, staining and prepping for the oil finish. I tested the tung on a small part and the color really pops. Will keep you updated. And Ben- Clear your PM box out. I don't have a C&R, so I don't think you can "lend" me any toys.

January 31, 2007, 11:19 PM	#70
Pup10range Junior Member Join Date: January 28, 2007 Posts: 13	Dont blow my rifle up with the reloads!!! And that guy did a great job on the stock. Hope to see what you make out of that piece of crap. I would like to see the rifle fully assembled when you get the stock back.

January 31, 2007, 11:22 PM	#71
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	It's already blown out of proportion buddy.... But we're having fun with it, that's what counts,,, hope the rifle, and me, pass the "test"....

January 31, 2007, 11:51 PM	#72
Hedley Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,279	I just wiped the first coat of Formby's on it to show what it does. The pic makes it look crappy due to my kitchen's lighting in addition to the flash, but it changes from domnant red hues to golden hues when you change viewing angles in the light. I think it will be bad to the bone in bright sunlight. The only bad side is that the oil brings out all colors, watermarks and all. There are some dings that were too deep to pull with steam. I know, I've tried. I probably spent 4 hours on steaming alone, and this is the best I could get without getting too aggresive on that poor old wood. There was one big "worm hole that I actually filled with a mixture of wood glue and Mosin-stock-sawdust. But you wanted a Mosin and not a Weatherby, so my goal is just to get it as smooth and refined as possible, while still retaining its character of decade's past. Before oil: Close up after first coat: Oh, and the "M" made it!

February 2, 2007, 09:05 PM	#75
bennnn Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: almost far enough south.. Posts: 978	I got another case of ammo for this one today, it was in a sealed can that looked just like the one in post #1.. So I thought it was the same ammo... But when I opened it up, it was all some yellow tipped stuff,,, Can somebody tell me what the yellow tips mean? The can and the brass are the same as the last case, only thing different the tips...