Annual check up question; "Do you have firearms at home"?

[TailGator]

The stuff related by canonfire is why I did not support the Florida law that imposed heavy fines on doctors who asked questions about firearms. It is legitimate to ask such questions of people who have (or who live with people who have) PTSD, depression, bipolar syndrome, schizophrenia, etc. I hadn't thought about lead poisoning, but that is a legitimate line of inquiry in that instance, too, and it sounds like Mr. Servo's doctor handled it well. To me, those are legitimate inquiries made by caring professionals. As a routine question on admission or at a wellness/maintenance examination, I have never been asked, but I would refuse to answer unless the doctor can justify the question by showing me that the question is pertinent to a diagnostic process or therapeutic considerations.

[Aguila Blanca]

You don't have to ask "Do you keep guns in the house?" to ask about lead exposure. If you get a blood test that shows an elevated blood lead level, it's a lot more straightforward to ask, "What have you been doing that would expose you to lead in your environment?"

About three years ago the blood work for my annual checkup came back with an elevated blood lead reading. My VA doctor freaked, although doing my own research later showed that she was freaking because she was applying the acceptable limit for kids to a senior citizen. Turns out that what's the "ZOMG!" level for a child is the upper limit of the normal range for adults. Nonetheless, less lead in your system is better than more lead, so I set out to reduce it.

Obviously, I do keep guns in the house. And, of course, that had NOTHING to do with why my blood lead level had zoomed. In fact, I had begun entering weekly mini-combat shooting competitions at the local range. We shoot indoors, in an underground range with concrete floors and an old ventilation system. The weekly "combat" shoots are mini IDPA-type scenarios out on the floor, where you don't have a fresh air fan right behind you like in the lanes. Plus, between shooters someone would typically run a broom across the floor to push the spent brass out of the way of the next competitor, and I frequently took my turn on the broom. Since we didn't wet the floor, this naturally put a lot of "stuff" in the air we were breathing.

So I dropped out of the competitions, and my blood lead levels went back to normal. All without asking "Do you have guns in the house?" Dunno about you, but my guns are mostly steel and wood -- not a lead part in any of them, that I know if.

[orionengnr]

About six years ago, I went in for my annual physical. The questionnaire had that question on it. I did not answer it, drew a line through that question and all subsequent questions, and handed the forms back to the receptionist. Nothing was said.

When I got to see the doc, I told him that I found the questionnaire intrusive, and I would not answer their questions.

He said that it was a "standard" questionnaire. I told him that I would be looking for a new GP.

I did, and my current GP has no such questionnaires. Each year when I get a physical, I ask to have a lead test done, because I hand load.

We are both happy with this arrangement.

[cltinseattle]

Simply answer "N/A" to any questions that are Not Applicable to your health. On the other hand, several years ago I went to my doctor for a physical the day after I had fired 100 rounds of 12 gauge at the trap range. I had a decent enough bruise on my shoulder. My doctor started asking me about it and I was being highly evasive, assuming that my doctor would be anti-gun. My doctor kept asking and I continued to be evasive until the doc finally asked if I was being abused at home. Criminy!!! That was the last thought on my mind but of course my doc had to ask about it since I had a big bruise on my shoulder. I then apologized and explained why I was being evasive and told my doc I had been trap shooting the day before, all was good. I guess my point is that even the docs don't always like the standardized forms and if questions like this are important then discuss it with your doctor face-to-face rather than writing it on the form. It will help you develop a more personal relationship with your doctor and will allow you to explain why you don't want to answer those types of questions on a form.

[Shane Tuttle]

My former employer is self insured. They use a health insurance company as the adminstrator for bills, etc. We had two different premiums. If we agreed to go through a "health assessment", we receive the lower premium. They take your blood, BMI, etc. We go online and answer a questionnaire. A section of questions are focused on assessing your mental health for lack of better terms. "You feel sad?" Yada, Yada. The last question asks if I own a handgun. A handgun.

I was explained they ask if I own a handgun only for the reason as a risk assessment of suicide if there's a blatant pattern of abnormal stress and patterns of depression. IOW, if there's no other huge red flags, it's a non-issue.

Now, do I believe that? Personally I think so since the agency is a regional one. And I know there's plenty of coworkers that answered "yes" and nobody has coming knocking down the front door of their home. But I still don't think they have ANY business asking that question. I mean, why not ask if I own razor blades or a length of rope, then?

[cannonfire]

The last question asks if I own a handgun. A handgun

Considering the fact that you are a Mod on a gun forum, I hope you said no because you actually own more than a handgun (which implies only 1 handgun)...

I don't understand why places ask specifically about handguns. As if somebody couldn't commit suicide with a shotgun (Kurt Cobain) or a rifle.

And I think the reason they don't ask about razors, rope, etc is because it is easier to pull the trigger while in an emotional state than it is to make sure your rope is secure or the cuts are deep/long enough... I'm just speculating

[Slopemeno]

A handgun? *A* handgun? Why, no. Nope.

[SIGSHR]

The one time a doctor asked me about this I told I have an 8" naval gun. Loading it all by myself is a terrific workout.

[Webleymkv]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webleymkv
What state do you live in? I ask because these kinds of questions can vary from state to state or even from one institution to another. I'm currently a nursing student in Indiana and the only time I've ever seen the issue of firearms brought up in a health screening is in pediatrics, and then only so that education about safe firearms storage can be delivered as needed.

The AMA is very anti-gun, and the pediatrticians among them (I think it's called the American College of Pediatricians) is virulently anti-gun. It's fine for you to claim (or for them to tell you in nursing school) that this is "only so that education about safe firearms storage can be delivered as needed," but the information still gets entered in your family's records. Then the government and the insurers get access to those records as Obamacare extends its tentacles, and now your private business is the government's public business.

No, it doesn't necessarily get entered into the family's records (contrary to popular belief, not every single word exchanged between patient and doctor or nurse is charted). When I've seen the question brought up, it's been verbally rather than on a paper questionairre. Also, sometimes the question is never even asked and instead, the patient is simply told something along the lines of "If you have firearms in your home then be sure to keep them locked up and out of reach of your children."

Plus ... who is going to deliver this "education about safe firearms storage"? A pediatrician? What are his/her qualifications to be teaching anything related to firearms safety? If he/she is not an NRA-certified firearms instructor (or equivalent), he/she has no business presuming to educate anyone about firearms safety. This would then be what is known as a boundary violation -- engaging in a practice for which the practitioner is unqualified. If I were to start charging money for dispensing legal advice for a fee, I would be charged with practicing law without a license. Ditto if I were to start giving medical advice. So why do doctors, especially pediatricians, think it's okay for them to start handing out advice that I have taken training to be certified in providing?

Actually, the education would most likely be given by the nurse rather than the doctor. As to qualifications to be teaching firearms safety, medical personnel aren't going to try to teach a live-fire course or anything of that nature, just give general education about safe firearms storage such as keep guns locked up and out of reach of small children or other such common-sense things (common sense isn't always as common as the name implies). In my experience, it's not some sort of inquisition about firearms ownership but just one part of general safety education for first-time parents and is included with education about water safety, car seat use, covering electrical outlets, and keeping hazardous chemical away from small children.

Also, for those with kids, NEVER allow a pediatrician to be in an exam room alone with your kid. Be sure you or your spouse is always present, and be sure your kids are taught never EVER to tell anyone there are guns in the house. If you aren't comfortable explaining to them why it's okay to lie about this, they should be taught to just say, "I don't know, ask my Mommy and my Daddy."

Actually, with small children at least, health screenings and procedures are usually preferred to be done when the child's parents are present in order to minimize the fear/anxiety that the child experiences. The primary exception to this is when abuse is suspected for obvious reasons.

THESE QUESTIONS ARE NOT BENIGN.

Perhaps not always, but they're not necessarily malevolent either.

[hogdogs]

In florida, refusal to answer that silly question can get you booted off their patient list...

This was taken to court and recently upheld as a "1st A" right...

So I will use my 1st A right to lie like a rug and answer HONESTLY No I do not own A gun...

Brent

[mrbatchelor]

Originally Posted by hogdogs

In florida, refusal to answer that silly question can get you booted off their patient list...

This was taken to court and recently upheld as a "1st A" right...

So I will use my 1st A right to lie like a rug and answer HONESTLY No I do not own A gun...

Brent

Having recently researched a gun on the 1934 NFA list I can say for sure that I do not own anything that the BATFE classified as a "firearm" in their eyes.

I do have some guns. But no "firearms" that are on the list.

[KyJim]

Actually, to them it does matter. They call it risk assessment. Your "lifestyle choices" make a difference as to what risk category they put you in. Its not exactly fair, but its the way insurance companies have always done their business. You get put in a risk category, based on what they know about you, and charged based on the category you wind up in.

But this isn't an insurance application, it's a medical history. Unless I've been in a car accident, the fact I do or do not wear seat belts is irrelevant to my treatment.

[44 AMP]

You're right, of course, things like that are totally irrelvant to treatment....

But, some take the "healthy choices, healthy lifestyle" pretty far. What bothers me is when they decide having guns is "unhealthy"...

[Silver Bullet]

Do you have firearms at home?

"Of course. I love my family enough to protect them."

[CDW4ME]

Having guns in my home is an asset to my health.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

While this is impolite - if you think it is an antigun issue with the doctor - ask him if he or she thought Dr. Petit in CT should have had gun. Or perhaps having your 11 year old daugher sexually assaulted, recorded on a cell phone camera during the assault and then burned alive is preferred to having no guns. Think about that while you are duct taped. I have no animus to what seems like a good man but any household should be able to defend itself.

Be prepared to get another doctor is he or she is anti.

[Kreyzhorse]

Answer it, don't answer it or simply answer "no" if that makes you the most comfortable. The way I see it, it is none of their damn buisness.

[10-96]

The way folks get bent out of shape over semantics and choice of words- it would seem that question, no matter how it was phrased, would be easy to manipulate to your favor. Q: "Do you have any guns at home?" A: No. (I detest the word "gun" for what the media has portrayed it as.) In all actuality, I may have any number of Revolvers, Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Firearms, Weapons, Biodegradable Popup Target Engagement Devices, Montana Mutt Mashers, Pasture Poodle Poppers, etc. Semantics...

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Shane Tuttle

The last question asks if I own a handgun. A handgun.

I could honestly answer "No" to that question, and you probably could as well. I do not own "a" handgun -- I own "multiple" handguns. It's a matter of how you read the question.

[mrbatchelor]

Here you go.

http://m.apnews.mobi/ap/db_6776/cont...tguid=6r3VskuN

[lee n. field]

I scheduled a check up at my Primary care Dr.'s and was sent a form to fill out, asking about moles, smoking, stool size, joint pain, etc. And question #H (Under "Prevention"), is "Do you have firearms at home"? For real?????

Don't be afraid to leave it blank.

[mrbatchelor]

Originally Posted by lee n. field

Don't be afraid to leave it blank.

My dad used to "just say no." Mind you this is in a town of about 800-900. So the doc knew he was lying, Every farmer in the county has at least one gun in the house. So she questioned him.

He said that's what Nancy Regan said do. Just say no. So that's what he did. And that was his final answer. Hard headed old cuss.

The Doc is not allowed to change your answers.

[Aguila Blanca]

From the article in mrbatchelor's link:

"What I'm struggling with is, is this the new social norm? This is what we're going to have to live with if we have more personal access to firearms," said Hargarten, emergency medicine chief at Froedtert Hospital and director of the Injury Research Center at the Medical College of Wisconsin. "We have a public health issue to discuss. Do we wait for the next outbreak or is there something we can do to prevent it?"

I don't agree that we have a "public health issue" and I don't regard isolated incidents as "outbreaks." Using such language is an intentional ploy to cast the alleged "issue" as an epidemiological "issue," when it is not. If it is anything remotely related to doctors, it's a mental health issue, but regarding it as such and responding appropriately opens all sorts of cans of worms. It's much easier to condemn the tool than to address the operator.

I'm just not seeing a major issue at all. It's a well-known axiom that "the plural of anecdote is not data." I've just plumbed the limited depths of what remains of my memory banks and compiled a list. If any of you can recall other incidents of mass shootings, please post them so I can update. What I have so far:

Date ... Incident ... Killed ... Wounded

• 1966 Univ. Texas Tower 16 32
• 1976 Son of Sam 6 9
• 1991 Luby's Cafeteria 23 20
• 1999 Columbine HS 13 21
• 2002 DC Sniper 10 3
• 2007 New Life Church, CO 4 5
• 2007 Virginia Tech 32 25
• 2009 Fort Hood, Texas 13 29
• 2011 Tucson, AZ (Giffords) 6 13
• 2012 Aurora, CO, theater 12 58
• 2012 Sikh Temple, Wisconsin 6 3
  
  
• ... TOTAL 141 218

For comparison, the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah Building killed 168 people and wounded 680. Which means that one (or two or three, depending on whose story you believe) with a U-Haul truck and some fertilizer and diesel fuel did far more damage both in personal casualties and in dollars worth of damage than have been accumulated over the course of 46 years of mass shootings.

Seems to me the emphasis should be on running background checks of anyone who rents a U-Haul van or buys more than two bags of fertilizer.

What other incidents should be included?

[wayneinFL]

I can see why some would justify a doctor giving advice on how to store firearms, etc. but why does a doctor have to ask whether you have firearms?

Let's say you go to a pediatrician. They offer you brochures on how to keep kids safe from household chemicals or electrical outlets. They don't feel the need to ask where your outlets are, what kind of chemicals you keep in the home, etc. Why would they need to know if you have firearms, whether they're handguns, how they're stored, etc.?

Why can't they say here are some brochures on child safety, and leave it at that?

[oneounceload]

In florida, refusal to answer that silly question can get you booted off their patient list...

This was taken to court and recently upheld as a "1st A" right...

So I will use my 1st A right to lie like a rug and answer HONESTLY No I do not own A gun...

Sorry Brent - I have never answered the question - just left that section blank - have never had an issue

If my doc persisted, i would then ask him if he still beating his wife - usually that stops the questions as they get the intrusion