round in the chamber - Page 2

genemike · November 27, 2007, 01:50 PM

I'm sure this comment will draw a lot of fire but, the truth is that most would be attackers are cowards that will take off running at the sight of or even the suggestion of a gun. I have been carrying off and on for over 50 years and have only had one situation to use my gun at all. I had plenty of time to get out of my car, chamber a round and fire over the heads of a bunch of 6 or 8 guys heckling and threatening me and my girlfriend. 2 rounds over their heads and they took off!

Most of you are not well enough trained to size up a situation. A little extra time may save you from an unlawful firing charge - much more likely than actually getting attacked.

rellascout · November 27, 2007, 02:06 PM

Do not do it.

If you need to draw a gun you need to shoot that gun. Otherwise it should stay in the pocket. Brandishing a weapon in hopes of deterring an attacker is good way to get yourself killed.

To me a simple demonstration will cure you of carrying with an empty chamber. Take your P-11 and clear it. Make sure it is empty. Put into your pocket holster. Have a friend stand 20 ft from you.

Say ready set go. At that point have him run at you making a stabbing motion. Try to draw your P-11 from your pocket, rack the slide and release the safety before he is on top of you making a stabbing motion into your chest.

I will bet you $100 you can't do it. In fact you will be lucky to get the gun out of you pocket before he is on top of you. In a real life situation where you will need your gun it is very likely you will not have time to rack the slide.

If you are not ready to carry the gun with one in the chamber ready to fire minus the safety you are not ready to carry a gun IMHO.

rellascout · November 27, 2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

I'm sure this comment will draw a lot of fire but, the truth is that most would be attackers are cowards that will take off running at the sight of or even the suggestion of a gun. I have been carrying off and on for over 50 years and have only had one situation to use my gun at all. I had plenty of time to get out of my car, chamber a round and fire over the heads of a bunch of 6 or 8 guys heckling and threatening me and my girlfriend. 2 rounds over their heads and they took off!

Most of you are not well enough trained to size up a situation. A little extra time may save you from an unlawful firing charge - much more likely than actually getting attacked.

That is some of the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum. Getting out of your car and shooting into the air over would be attackers may not only get you killed , or someone else killed (where did those bullets go) it will cause you to loose your CHP in VA.

bubba182 · November 27, 2007, 02:24 PM

I went thru the same dilemma when I started carrying. My solution is to carry a Beretta 92FS in the winter and a Beretta 84 in the summer. Both have a safety with a decocker so I can chamber a round and decock the hammer. It does throw my first shot off a little using a DA trigger pull but I practice doing it and I shoot 2 inches left but no higher or lower. This makes little difference to hitting the center of mass. But I believe you need to carry the weapon with a round chambered. Just MHO.

AdamSean · November 27, 2007, 03:13 PM

I was nervous at first as well, but soon realized that I can run around go up and down stairs, in and out of my car and throw around the trash cans at work without it going of. Did I forget to mention that I used to deliver pizzas? Lots of activity and no misfires. Now I work at a home improvement store with as much if not more activity and still carry in my pocket. Still no holes in my leg. Also mind you that a lot of manufacturers do drop tests. The Taurus will not go off if dropped. Feel safe sir.

Magyar · November 27, 2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

To me a simple demonstration will cure you of carrying with an empty chamber. Take your P-11 and clear it. Make sure it is empty. Put into your pocket holster. Have a friend stand 20 ft from you.

Say ready set go. At that point have him run at you making a stabbing motion. Try to draw your P-11 from your pocket, rack the slide and release the safety before he is on top of you making a stabbing motion into your chest.

I will bet you $100 you can't do it.

I'll take that bet...BTW, I wouldn't be carrying a P-11..
I can present my 1911's faster than you can fumble with a safety or thumb-break. That scenario has been played out so much in the gun magazines, & like other things when repeated often enough; are accepted as gospel truth....

First of all, if you see this coming; you won't be standing there like a statue unless you are stone-cold petrified!!!
Anyone physically fit with little training can rewrite the scenario....

Drill: Falling back w/quick CQ hip-shots.

rellascout · November 27, 2007, 04:41 PM

Your missing the point. This individual is new to carrying. He has clearly not trained enough to take my $100. If you have not been carrying long enough to trust your skills with a pistol that has a DOA trigger and a safety then you are not going to drawn that gun and rack the slide before I have plunged a knife into his chest. No where did I say no one can beat that scenario. Of course there are people who can but you are not taking into account that under real world pressure your motor skills and your timing will be off. You will not get the heads up of ready set go. Any attacker worth their salt is coming at you from closer than 20Ft and from an angle that benefits them not you.

Plus he is pulling from a pocket not a holster.

My bet stands if we keep the scenario the same. Put your 1911 in your pocket and lets see who wins.

jabotinsky · November 27, 2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Say ready set go. At that point have him run at you making a stabbing motion.

Downward?

jabotinsky · November 27, 2007, 05:23 PM

Okay, but seriously:

The original poster didn't say why he CCW...

In my case, it's to transport the weapon w/o having to run afoul of the law, e.g. separate ammo in the car, taking to gunsmith, or having for wildlife excursions. I'm not a cop and live in safe area, so I don't CCW all the time, just want to be free to transport and carry if ever needed, exercise my freedom before it's taken away, etc. So, since statistically I'm much more likely to have an accidental discharge sometime in my life than be killed by a felon, the empty chamber habit makes my life safer than otherwise.

It also helps if you have some training in self-defense and basic street skills. Your range of options increases dramatically. Shooting a teenager with a rickety switchblade with your .357 may not be as defensible as you think. I remember spending years in aikido because I wanted more options beyond bone-crunching arts I'd studied...what if your friend's kid is big & autistic, what if that ahole friend of your buddy's is so drunk he gets out of hand? You want options beyond a loaded weapon and hair trigger. Somewhere along that scale it may get to be a good idea to prep a weapon for possible use, but it's a fluid set of circumstances, always looking for escape first. There are usually signs in the environment first. I'm not at the point in my life yet where I feel the need to carry locked and loaded through the mall parking lot, but I understand why some folks have.

Does the original poster feel the need to be able to deploy and kill rapidly at all times outside his home?

Sorry for the ramble...

rellascout · November 27, 2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Does the original poster feel the need to be able to deploy and kill rapidly at all times outside his home?

I am not out for blood in fact I hope to never have to draw down on anyone but to me if you are going to carry a gun that is what you need to be prepared for.

Sorry but that is the essence of CCW. It is to defend your life or the life of someone else using a gun. If that is not your intention then one should leave the gun at home. IMHO.

john_55 · November 27, 2007, 05:47 PM

To answer some of the questions posted....

I do plan to carry all the time.

I do not really go into high crime areas, but as many have said, crimes can and do happen anywhere. I do live in a pretty safe area.

A good portion of my time, I will have to have the gun concealed in a bag due to work/job. Or even in my car which is a whole other issue.

I have been carrying w/o a round in the chamber and am still getting used to it.

I think I understand both sides of the argument. At this point, I feel safer w/o one in the chamber, especially when its in my work bag. Even though its in a good holster in the bag, there are times when it could be moved a bit.

I do agree that if you ever needed it, having one in the chamber is much much better.

TexasSeaRay · November 27, 2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

What area are you traveling or hanging out in where less than 1 second to chamber a round is going to mean life or death?

Where are you traveling or hanging out where not having a gun is going to mean life or death?

Point is, if you feel the need to carry a firearm, then carry it loaded, chambered and ready to fire.

I saw plenty of situations in both the military and LE where having an unchambered weapon could've caused a lot of problems--and that was with trained soldiers and agents/officers who knew what they were getting into.

If you're not comfortable with your weapon with a round chambered, then I would submit you're not comfortable enough with your weapon to make it your daily carry gun. Solution? Train more, think more, become more confident--with confidence comes comfort.

Jeff

hecate · November 27, 2007, 06:03 PM

Carrying however you're comfortable is better than not carrying at all, but I agree that 500 rounds is nowhere close to learning your gun. I prefer to train and practice to the point of "unconscious competence" with a carry gun.

I've carried a couple of Browning Hi-Powers, an HK P7M8, and several 1911's, all with a round chambered. The only problem I ever had was one 1911 that would go off-safe if carried off-body. Off-body carry in a purse, briefcase, fanny pack, etc. can be functionally similar to carrying in a pocket in that you don't get the same quality of gun immobilization you have with a good holster. That 1911 had a worn safety and needed a quick trip to the gunsmith anyway.

Back in the dim recesses of time when Condition 1 scared me too, an instructor suggested I load my gun with snap caps and carry it cocked-n-locked around the house as much as I could. During that time, I was to write down and report to him every single time the hammer dropped on that snap cap all by itself. Of course, it never did.

The deeper the concealment, the slower the presentation. And depending on circumstances, the ideal of a strong side hip holster under an easily-managed concealment garment sometimes just can't be done. I'd still rather have a more complicated draw than no gun at all. If my presentation is slowed already, I don't need to waste any more time racking a round.

Chui · November 27, 2007, 09:12 PM

Sounds like several persons should not carry...

Some of us are more, say, diligent (or have a clue) when it comes to personal security. A firearm should be loaded with one in the chamber if it's on your person. Period. You nor I can forsee the exact manner in which we MAY be confronted. ASS+uming that you'll have the time to perceive the threat and properly react, then draw and chamber a round is fanciful. You may never have to use it; you MAY have the luxury of time/distance to do so, but the majority of incidents are CLOSE & FAST. If you have to wrestle with the guy/guys you're fvcked.

I personally don't proscribe defending one's self with only a "micro" pistol or pocket gun. They are fine - in their place, but I question the wisdom of carrying a 442, 340 PD or one of the "pocket pistols" as a primary (and often times ONLY) tool for self-defense.

To each his/her own I guess.

easyG · November 28, 2007, 05:20 PM

It depends upon your unique circumstances....

It you work the counter in a pawn shop or a liquor store in "the hood", you would probably be wise to keep your pistol very close by, with one in the chamber and no manual safety on.

Or if you're a cop, then yeah, you would be crazy not to carry with one in the chamber.

But for the average guy living in suburbia or "Anytown USA", there is no realistic need to be ready to draw and shoot someone at any given second.

Quote:

Do not do it.

If you need to draw a gun you need to shoot that gun. Otherwise it should stay in the pocket. Brandishing a weapon in hopes of deterring an attacker is good way to get yourself killed.

To me a simple demonstration will cure you of carrying with an empty chamber. Take your P-11 and clear it. Make sure it is empty. Put into your pocket holster. Have a friend stand 20 ft from you.

Say ready set go. At that point have him run at you making a stabbing motion. Try to draw your P-11 from your pocket, rack the slide and release the safety before he is on top of you making a stabbing motion into your chest.

I will bet you $100 you can't do it. In fact you will be lucky to get the gun out of you pocket before he is on top of you. In a real life situation where you will need your gun it is very likely you will not have time to rack the slide.

If you are not ready to carry the gun with one in the chamber ready to fire minus the safety you are not ready to carry a gun IMHO.

If all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail....

The "quick draw" is not really that useful as a realistic everyday self-defense.

Instead of drawing and chambering a round, or drawing and shooting, you would probably be better off running and/or getting an obstacle between the attacker and yourself.
After all, what would you do it someone started running at you but you could not see any visible weapon?

Would you draw and shoot them?

**JohnKSa** · November 28, 2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

After all, what would you do it someone started running at you but you could not see any visible weapon?

Would you draw and shoot them?

Interesting question. One's first instinct would probably be to attempt to evade which would be correct.

However, if you fail to evade and the person closes with you before drawing a weapon now you're in a situation where you need to draw yours while fending off his. That's a bad situation to find yourself in with an empty-chamber gun.

Quote:

The "quick draw" is not really that useful as a realistic everyday self-defense.

A firearm "is not really all that useful as a realistic everyday self-defense". There are police officers who go their whole career and never draw their handgun--a citizen is less likely to need a firearm.

We're preparing for pretty unlikely circumstances by carrying a firearm, it doesn't make sense to use terms like "everyday self-defense". Are there circumstances where a rapid presentation is important? Sure. Are they common or even the majority of cases? I would say that they aren't. But they do happen.

If a person is uncomfortable carrying chamber-loaded they have several options. They can carry chamber-empty, learn more about their firearm, or select another firearm that offers them more peace of mind. I'm not trying to push people into doing something that they feel uncomfortable about--I'm just pointing out that chamber-empty carry has some disadvantages that need to be considered before making a decision.

Don P · November 28, 2007, 05:37 PM

My opinion would be to carry a revolver for the peace of mind. Pull the trigger or cock the hamemer brings a live round into play if needed.

genemike · November 28, 2007, 06:23 PM

Yeah, I know it's dumb but I'm getting back in this discussion - A few posts back, I said that I had run some guys off by shooting over their heads. rellascout thought I was suggesting that was the thing to do today but I wasn't. I was trying to demonstrate the cowardice of the average would be attacker. Actually, the incident was a good example of action by an untrained gun owner. I was 19 at the time, good with a gun - hunting and on the range - but without training for self defense.

I also said:
Most of you are not well enough trained to size up (added - and react to) a situation. A little extra time may save you from an unlawful firing charge - much more likely than actually getting attacked.

What I want to say now is that I believe that only a trained professional should be walking the streets with a chambered round. It has nothing to do with "how many rounds he has put through his gun" nor "how fast he can draw his gun" and certainly not "whether he is comfortable with it." In fact, there are undoubtedly some idiots who would be completely comfortable with it that would be the worst candidates for mingling in society with a chambered round.

**JohnKSa** · November 28, 2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

What I want to say now is that I believe that only a trained professional should be walking the streets with a chambered round.

I would say just the reverse.

A trained professional is likely to know and have explored all the advantages and disadvantages of his choice.

A trained professional is likely to have put in the effort to make sure that he can chamber a round in a high-stress, time-critical situation without undue delay and without fumbling.

A trained professional is likely to have put in adequate practice time with alternative slide racking techniques that will allow him to surely chamber a round when only one hand is available.

In short, I disagree with the idea that making a system or technique MORE complicated makes it more suitable for the inexperienced.

Chui · November 28, 2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

"What I want to say now is that I believe that only a trained professional should be walking the streets with a chambered round."

Total Bullfeathers. It's the only way to pack steel. It's how they were designed to be carried about and only the foolhardy would venture otherwise. On the same token only a fool would purchase and carry a pistol with little understanding of it's inner workings or how to effectively use the object under stress.

WE ALL SHOULD BE 'PIGS': Professionally Instructed Gunmen.

easyG · November 29, 2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

WE ALL SHOULD BE 'PIGS': Professionally Instructed Gunmen.

Sorry to get off topic, but I have a real problem with this type of statement.

The problem is this...
Exactly who gets to decide what "professionally instructed" means?
Law enforcement?
The NRA?
The military?
Local government?
State government?
The Federal government?

Whenever someone says something to the effect of "training should be mandatory", be very careful.
Such thinking only leads to regulation and, eventually, confiscation.

XD Gunner · November 29, 2007, 01:45 PM

Depends on where I'm going to be at. If it's a rural community/area with open spaces, I carry empty chamber. I'm also more relaxed and at ease with my surroundings, as I grew up in a rural area.

If it's going to be in a crowded environment, such as an urban area, or place known for crimes, or a place I'm not very relaxed in in general, I carry one int he chamber, mainly because I know if I'm under a great deal of stress, I'm going to forget to rack the slide.

Perldog007 · November 29, 2007, 03:06 PM

I have done both methods. Sometimes I was out and about where I wanted the night sights on my GLock 23, but my wardrobe didn't match up with the holsters I had. Israeli carry.

Sometimes I worked as an SO in tough venues where BGs were known to snatch guns from the PD. Empty chamber, safety on (if applicable) and BUG in weakside front pocket.

on the nightstand empty chamber means I need both hands and more time. Also means I am less likely to hear the phone and answer the gun like that poor slob in Louisiana did years ago.

I respect both camps. Safety first means different things to different folks with varying skills experience and environments.

The Man · November 29, 2007, 03:19 PM

Thats Depend On What Gun I Use.For Duty I Always Have One In The Chamber,That A Diferent History.And If You Carry In Your Pocket With One In The Chamber,Dont Carry Nothing More In The Pocket,I Dont Have To Explain That I Think.Thanks!

StevePVB · November 29, 2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

I was also told that one should drive without the gun being chambered and only engaging a round when you exit the car or feel you are in an enviroment that is uncomfortable to you. Then again, no one really knows when an attack may occur so this could be a set back as well. I guess it's personal preference.

To me, this is much like the original question of carrying with one in the chamber.

My HD gun is in the drawer next to my bed, chambered and ready to go. Same with my carry gun. My concern is trying to keep it straight if I don't keep everything in the same condition. Especially if I wake up in the middle of the night. For me, the best way is to keep them all in the same condition. Less chance for my feeble brain to misfire.

November 27, 2007, 01:50 PM	#26
genemike Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 22	I'm sure this comment will draw a lot of fire but, the truth is that most would be attackers are cowards that will take off running at the sight of or even the suggestion of a gun. I have been carrying off and on for over 50 years and have only had one situation to use my gun at all. I had plenty of time to get out of my car, chamber a round and fire over the heads of a bunch of 6 or 8 guys heckling and threatening me and my girlfriend. 2 rounds over their heads and they took off! Most of you are not well enough trained to size up a situation. A little extra time may save you from an unlawful firing charge - much more likely than actually getting attacked. Last edited by genemike; November 28, 2007 at 11:46 PM.

November 27, 2007, 02:24 PM	#29
bubba182 Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 26	One in the Chamber I went thru the same dilemma when I started carrying. My solution is to carry a Beretta 92FS in the winter and a Beretta 84 in the summer. Both have a safety with a decocker so I can chamber a round and decock the hammer. It does throw my first shot off a little using a DA trigger pull but I practice doing it and I shoot 2 inches left but no higher or lower. This makes little difference to hitting the center of mass. But I believe you need to carry the weapon with a round chambered. Just MHO.

November 27, 2007, 09:12 PM	#39
Chui Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,784	Sounds like several persons should not carry... Some of us are more, say, diligent (or have a clue) when it comes to personal security. A firearm should be loaded with one in the chamber if it's on your person. Period. You nor I can forsee the exact manner in which we MAY be confronted. ASS+uming that you'll have the time to perceive the threat and properly react, then draw and chamber a round is fanciful. You may never have to use it; you MAY have the luxury of time/distance to do so, but the majority of incidents are CLOSE & FAST. If you have to wrestle with the guy/guys you're fvcked. I personally don't proscribe defending one's self with only a "micro" pistol or pocket gun. They are fine - in their place, but I question the wisdom of carrying a 442, 340 PD or one of the "pocket pistols" as a primary (and often times ONLY) tool for self-defense. To each his/her own I guess. __________________ "Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783

November 28, 2007, 05:37 PM	#42
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,213	M/T Chamber My opinion would be to carry a revolver for the peace of mind. Pull the trigger or cock the hamemer brings a live round into play if needed. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

November 29, 2007, 03:19 PM	#49
The Man Member Join Date: July 4, 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 64	The Hitman Thats Depend On What Gun I Use.For Duty I Always Have One In The Chamber,That A Diferent History.And If You Carry In Your Pocket With One In The Chamber,Dont Carry Nothing More In The Pocket,I Dont Have To Explain That I Think.Thanks!

November 27, 2007, 02:06 PM	#27
rellascout Junior member Join Date: September 2, 2004 Posts: 2,435	Do not do it. If you need to draw a gun you need to shoot that gun. Otherwise it should stay in the pocket. Brandishing a weapon in hopes of deterring an attacker is good way to get yourself killed. To me a simple demonstration will cure you of carrying with an empty chamber. Take your P-11 and clear it. Make sure it is empty. Put into your pocket holster. Have a friend stand 20 ft from you. Say ready set go. At that point have him run at you making a stabbing motion. Try to draw your P-11 from your pocket, rack the slide and release the safety before he is on top of you making a stabbing motion into your chest. I will bet you $100 you can't do it. In fact you will be lucky to get the gun out of you pocket before he is on top of you. In a real life situation where you will need your gun it is very likely you will not have time to rack the slide. If you are not ready to carry the gun with one in the chamber ready to fire minus the safety you are not ready to carry a gun IMHO.

November 27, 2007, 03:13 PM	#30
AdamSean Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 479	I was nervous at first as well, but soon realized that I can run around go up and down stairs, in and out of my car and throw around the trash cans at work without it going of. Did I forget to mention that I used to deliver pizzas? Lots of activity and no misfires. Now I work at a home improvement store with as much if not more activity and still carry in my pocket. Still no holes in my leg. Also mind you that a lot of manufacturers do drop tests. The Taurus will not go off if dropped. Feel safe sir.

November 27, 2007, 04:41 PM	#32
rellascout Junior member Join Date: September 2, 2004 Posts: 2,435	Your missing the point. This individual is new to carrying. He has clearly not trained enough to take my $100. If you have not been carrying long enough to trust your skills with a pistol that has a DOA trigger and a safety then you are not going to drawn that gun and rack the slide before I have plunged a knife into his chest. No where did I say no one can beat that scenario. Of course there are people who can but you are not taking into account that under real world pressure your motor skills and your timing will be off. You will not get the heads up of ready set go. Any attacker worth their salt is coming at you from closer than 20Ft and from an angle that benefits them not you. Plus he is pulling from a pocket not a holster. My bet stands if we keep the scenario the same. Put your 1911 in your pocket and lets see who wins.

November 27, 2007, 05:23 PM	#34
jabotinsky Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 105	Okay, but seriously: The original poster didn't say why he CCW... In my case, it's to transport the weapon w/o having to run afoul of the law, e.g. separate ammo in the car, taking to gunsmith, or having for wildlife excursions. I'm not a cop and live in safe area, so I don't CCW all the time, just want to be free to transport and carry if ever needed, exercise my freedom before it's taken away, etc. So, since statistically I'm much more likely to have an accidental discharge sometime in my life than be killed by a felon, the empty chamber habit makes my life safer than otherwise. It also helps if you have some training in self-defense and basic street skills. Your range of options increases dramatically. Shooting a teenager with a rickety switchblade with your .357 may not be as defensible as you think. I remember spending years in aikido because I wanted more options beyond bone-crunching arts I'd studied...what if your friend's kid is big & autistic, what if that ahole friend of your buddy's is so drunk he gets out of hand? You want options beyond a loaded weapon and hair trigger. Somewhere along that scale it may get to be a good idea to prep a weapon for possible use, but it's a fluid set of circumstances, always looking for escape first. There are usually signs in the environment first. I'm not at the point in my life yet where I feel the need to carry locked and loaded through the mall parking lot, but I understand why some folks have. Does the original poster feel the need to be able to deploy and kill rapidly at all times outside his home? Sorry for the ramble...

November 27, 2007, 05:47 PM	#36
john_55 Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Posts: 19	To answer some of the questions posted.... I do plan to carry all the time. I do not really go into high crime areas, but as many have said, crimes can and do happen anywhere. I do live in a pretty safe area. A good portion of my time, I will have to have the gun concealed in a bag due to work/job. Or even in my car which is a whole other issue. I have been carrying w/o a round in the chamber and am still getting used to it. I think I understand both sides of the argument. At this point, I feel safer w/o one in the chamber, especially when its in my work bag. Even though its in a good holster in the bag, there are times when it could be moved a bit. I do agree that if you ever needed it, having one in the chamber is much much better.

November 27, 2007, 06:03 PM	#38
hecate Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Nebraska Posts: 97	Carrying however you're comfortable is better than not carrying at all, but I agree that 500 rounds is nowhere close to learning your gun. I prefer to train and practice to the point of "unconscious competence" with a carry gun. I've carried a couple of Browning Hi-Powers, an HK P7M8, and several 1911's, all with a round chambered. The only problem I ever had was one 1911 that would go off-safe if carried off-body. Off-body carry in a purse, briefcase, fanny pack, etc. can be functionally similar to carrying in a pocket in that you don't get the same quality of gun immobilization you have with a good holster. That 1911 had a worn safety and needed a quick trip to the gunsmith anyway. Back in the dim recesses of time when Condition 1 scared me too, an instructor suggested I load my gun with snap caps and carry it cocked-n-locked around the house as much as I could. During that time, I was to write down and report to him every single time the hammer dropped on that snap cap all by itself. Of course, it never did. The deeper the concealment, the slower the presentation. And depending on circumstances, the ideal of a strong side hip holster under an easily-managed concealment garment sometimes just can't be done. I'd still rather have a more complicated draw than no gun at all. If my presentation is slowed already, I don't need to waste any more time racking a round.

November 28, 2007, 06:23 PM	#43
genemike Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Posts: 22	Yeah, I know it's dumb but I'm getting back in this discussion - A few posts back, I said that I had run some guys off by shooting over their heads. rellascout thought I was suggesting that was the thing to do today but I wasn't. I was trying to demonstrate the cowardice of the average would be attacker. Actually, the incident was a good example of action by an untrained gun owner. I was 19 at the time, good with a gun - hunting and on the range - but without training for self defense. I also said: Most of you are not well enough trained to size up (added - and react to) a situation. A little extra time may save you from an unlawful firing charge - much more likely than actually getting attacked. What I want to say now is that I believe that only a trained professional should be walking the streets with a chambered round. It has nothing to do with "how many rounds he has put through his gun" nor "how fast he can draw his gun" and certainly not "whether he is comfortable with it." In fact, there are undoubtedly some idiots who would be completely comfortable with it that would be the worst candidates for mingling in society with a chambered round.

November 29, 2007, 01:45 PM	#47
XD Gunner Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 636	Depends on where I'm going to be at. If it's a rural community/area with open spaces, I carry empty chamber. I'm also more relaxed and at ease with my surroundings, as I grew up in a rural area. If it's going to be in a crowded environment, such as an urban area, or place known for crimes, or a place I'm not very relaxed in in general, I carry one int he chamber, mainly because I know if I'm under a great deal of stress, I'm going to forget to rack the slide.

November 29, 2007, 03:06 PM	#48
Perldog007 Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Location: Estados Unitas / United States Posts: 986	I have done both methods. Sometimes I was out and about where I wanted the night sights on my GLock 23, but my wardrobe didn't match up with the holsters I had. Israeli carry. Sometimes I worked as an SO in tough venues where BGs were known to snatch guns from the PD. Empty chamber, safety on (if applicable) and BUG in weakside front pocket. on the nightstand empty chamber means I need both hands and more time. Also means I am less likely to hear the phone and answer the gun like that poor slob in Louisiana did years ago. I respect both camps. Safety first means different things to different folks with varying skills experience and environments.