.45acp anti bear round(abr)?

[Alaska444]

Today, 07:29 PM #50
RalphS
Member

Join Date: December 24, 2010
Posts: 19
The general consensus among internet bear experts is -
1. at least 44 Mag
2. at least 300 grains
3. at least 1200 fps

A 230 grain FMJ at 850 fps doesn't come close.

+1 for all of the internet bear experts!!

[WildBill45]

The general consensus among internet bear experts is -

Really???

Ask an Inuit, and he will tell you that the best gun for bear defense is:

The one in your hand!

[HighValleyRanch]

I think the OP has a glock 30 that he is asking about?

hard cast bullets. will that work with the glock 30?

You can get a 10mm conversion barrel for that glock 30 and some 29 magazines. If you are worried about the thinner slide on the 30, you can get a LWD beefier slide as well.

Just purchased a Glock 20 for my woods carry, and the seller threw in some 135 gr. double tap, which they listed at 765 ME out of a glock 20.
I think Buffalo Bore makes some heavy hard hitting stuff in that range as well.

That is comparable to low end .44 mag.
The magtech stuff I was shooting out of my sw 629 .44 mag was in the 750 ME ft. lb. range.

And that is in the same ball park as the hottest .357.
10mm!
Pricey but comforting!

Good enough for black bear, I think.

[Jeff56]

I read a story in a gun mag a couple of years ago about a bear hunting guide (black bears) who got a lot of hunters who wanted to kill a bear with their carry weapon and their usual choice was a .45 ACP. Of course the guy was backing up these hunters with a much more powerful rifle so they could take more risks. He also got some people who hunted with a .44 mag..

He said pretty much every time someone shot a bear with a .45 they ended up having to shoot it again and sometimes another time. He also said he never saw a bear need more than one round from a .44 mag.. But it was a gun magazine. I took it with the usual grain of salt that I use on all articles from gun mags.

The bottom line is use a .44 magnum for bears. I switched up after I started getting bears in my yard all the time. I use the 255 gr. "Keith" low recoil cartridge from Buffalo Bore. That's about the biggest round my Smith 629 can handle.

[jgcoastie]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Serious bear defense does not involve handguns of any variety.

Long guns, preferrably a .45/70. Period.

And before you ask, yes. Yes, I have carried one on my back while waist-deep in a river salmon fishing. Yes, it was readily accessible at all times. No, it did not get tangled up in my fishing gear. It just takes a bit of inginuity and practice.

Handguns are not sufficient for me to trust against a charging bear. I want a real gun, not a wheel gun.

[Double Naught Spy]

Serious primary bear defense does not involve handguns of any variety.

There, fixed it for you. Handgun backups are common and have been used successfully in numerous accounts.

With that said, numerous folks have used them quite successfully as primary defense as well. Lots haven't. Of course, lots of folks with rifles get seriously injured or killed as well.

[darkgael]

200 grn. Plus P Auto Rim, out of my snubbie, S&W 325 revolver at 1150 FPS .

1150 fps for a 200 grain bullet out of a snub nosed revolver?

I had a problem with that data. I did, however, check the published data from Buffalo bore.....they list that load at 1200 fps - I wonder how long a barrel was used to gather data. Out of a "snub", that must get your attention.
Interestingly, the same load in the standard .45ACP is listed at 1050 fps. Go figure.
Pete

[American Made]

My carry gun is the mighty .45 acp. It does ( at times ) find itself in the woods with me. But...I carry it more for wolves ( extra magazines = more dead wolves )

I had to draw down on a Moose before with that same Kimber 3" 45. Kinda a standoff really - He and I just prayed the other wouldn't make the first move ... Me more than him. The only saving grace would have been the two extra magazines. I just walked backwards for about fifty yards.

If it was any grizzly? I'd look for the biggest tree and then?

[skinnypuppy]

Wait just one minute! In my backyard, I have a 400 pound black bear rooming my property. If for some strange reason the bear starts charging towards me, I will shoot all 13 rounds of my 185 grain HJP gold sabers. According to the information I read, the bear will not be injured or stopped???

[Alaska444]

Not necessarily. The first use of a firearm for bear defense after the National parks allowed carry was with a grizzly and a .45 ACP. After about 10 shots, he went off and died later.

I wouldn't want to try the experiment myself, but the .45 ACP is truly a much better two legged predator gun than for a four legged beast like a bear. Most .45 ACP loads have only about 1/3 the muzzle energy of the higher end .44 magnum loads available. With a .44 magnum felt to be inadequate for large bears, you are really pushing the limit when you go with the .45 ACP. Wouldn't be my choice, but if that is all you have, it is better than throwing sticks.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by skinnypuppy

Wait just one minute! In my backyard, I have a 400 pound black bear rooming my property. If for some strange reason the bear starts charging towards me, I will shoot all 13 rounds of my 185 grain HJP gold sabers. According to the information I read, the bear will not be injured or stopped???

There was a tourist took out a Grizzly bear in Denali park with a 45 ACP but he was very lucky. There are Polar bears regularly taken with 22 centerfire, but if you go with the likely contenders for close-range emergency self-defense where there is little time to aim or choose to shoot or not shoot, large, heavy bullets have a better track record than frangible bullets that usually expand and stop in the thick skin and dense muscle of large bears before they do anything more than hurt.

The simple truth is that, among bullets, heavy bullets with a large meplate travelling around 1100 fps and which hold together when they hit heavy muscle are the ones that stop large bears quickly enough to stop them before they eat your lunch. Bullets that expand don't penetrate well enough to reach vital organs or break bones. If you want to anchor a determined animal, shredding a lot of flesh doesn't do it reliably.

In gang country, the 185s are fine. In bear country, I would carry something a bit more stout. If 185 grain hollowpoints were all I had against a 400 lb bear, I would probably use them. In bear country, however, my first choice is oleoresin capsicum in 8 to 12 oz bottles, or UDAP. But my backup is 45 caliber 300 grain pills at 1100 fps or better.

We have different calibers and different bullet constructions because some shooting tasks are different than others. 185 Grain Golden Sabers are great against people. Against bears, not so much. Against a bear, 300 Grain solids do better, but against people, the hollowpoint is the far better choice.

On the other hand, read the stats. Spray has a better track record at preventing human injury than any bullet. And you don't have to answer nearly as many questions of the authorities as if you kill a bear. Heaven forbid I wound a bear and have the responsibility of tracking a now more dangerous animal. Even if I kill it outright, I still have to deal with skinning it, preserving the head and hide and turning it over to the State of Alaska, because, all DLP-killed animals belong to the State.

Lost Sheep

[Niantician]

On the flip side, i'd hate to come across one or two bad guys armed with pocket 380s, while i'm carrying a huge 5 shot magnum revolver for bear defence. So its really a matter of what your primary threat is in your particular woodsy setting. In the northwest, carry a 454 and hope you don't have a run-in with people. In the northeast, carry a 45 and hope you don't have a run-in with bear.

[Jeff56]

On the flip side, i'd hate to come across one or two bad guys armed with pocket 380s, while i'm carrying a huge 5 shot magnum revolver for bear defence. So its really a matter of what your primary threat is in your particular woodsy setting.

That's exactly why I carried a .45 on my ATV. At the time bears were around but nothing like they are now. BTW there are lots of black bears in the NE now.

I've actually ran into a group of hunters with body language that strongly suggested they were looking for trouble. I kept my thumb on the go lever and hoped I wouldn't have to try to shoot it out with 3 guys carrying long guns. Not long after that another ATV rider was shot and killed about 50 miles from where I ride. Some hunter just shot him for kicks.

Luckily the .45 I was carrying was a Sig P220 with about 50 yards of accuracy and maybe more for minute of man. Of course they lose a lot of power in that distance though. And no I didn't misread the situation. When they look at you with that, "I could kill you out here and no one would know," look it's time to make tracks fast. I had the ATV up to 45 mph very quickly that day on a very tight trail. I've seen that look before only it was more about beating the crap out of me.

And I've seen LOTS of people throw things out the car window that would kill you if they hit you too. I got hit with an egg from a car going 70 one direction while I was going over 20 the other direction on a bicycle. It knocked me off my bike and put a huge bruise on my chest. I had a half full can of Mt. Dew thrown from a truck going probably 80 miss my head by about 6 inches. That would certainly have killed me if it hit me.

People are a lot more mean that most give them credit for. If they think you can't catch them or identify them they will try to kill you for kicks. I've seen it done dozens of times. I had a car cross a road and try to run me off the road and down into a creek 10 feet straight down while riding my bike. I had a beer bottle thrown from halfway up a huge hill land 2 feet in front of me. It had to have beer in it to travel that far. People will kill you for fun if they can. I had a guy with a bow sneak up behind us because we wandered off a trail system onto his property "by mistake" and immediately turned around. He cut us off before we could get 10 yards with that bow pointed our direction. He doesn't have any idea how close he came to taking a .45 bullet, I'm sure.

So yes, a gun designed for human encounters is usually a good thing to have when in wild country alone or even with someone.

BTW I much prefer carrying a shotgun for my local bears but it just isn't practical if I want to do anything except wait for bears to attack. It's hard to do work with a shotgun in one hand. So sometimes I carry a .44 mag. instead.

[Double Naught Spy]

I wouldn't want to try the experiment myself, but the .45 ACP is truly a much better two legged predator gun than for a four legged beast like a bear.

Yes, but I am thinking the Buffalo Bore ammo might be good hog hunting ammo. It might be fine on some of those yearling part grown black bears.

However, did you notice that none of the reviews for it at Midway were about its terminal performance? Neither are the ones at Buffalo Bore.

The bullet might have been designed with bear in mind, but I doubt that the cartridge was. If it was, then it would appear to be a less than adequate attempt to put a square peg in a round hole. It may be a better choice than regular .45 acp ball for bear defense, but that just doesn't make it a good round for bear defense.

[BGutzman]

Compared to a 10mm or 357 mag 200gr hardcast @ 1300 fps it is still a weak sister.

Thats why we have the 460 Rowland.... when 10mm just isnt enough...

[ET.]

Hand guns in the woods are just like hand guns on the streets. They are a compromise because we can't always carry a 12 gauge shotgun with 7 slugs loaded in the extended mag tube. If I have the option, I will always have my 12 gauge 18" shotgun with me. The trouble is that I don't always have that option. I carry a Glock 27 all the time but know that there are better people stoppers out there than the 40s&w rounds I carry. In the woods I carry either my 21sf loaded with +p ammo, or my Judge loaded with 45LC & some 410 buckshot. Lord knows that those rounds are not going to dissuade a bear from munching on my flesh if she is enraged because she thinks I'm after her cubs. But if it's all I have on me at that time then I'm going to dance with the date I brought & not worry about the girl I didn't ask out.

I just wish Taurus made a 12 or 20 gauge Judge I could carry on my hip. Then I would feel a little more safe in the woods. I guess I could opt for a 10mm or a 454 casull or a 500s&w, but I weigh the chances that I'm actually going to encounter a bear in the woods and opt for the guns that I already own. If I somehow end up on the front page of the Altanta Constitution as bear meat then I made a horrible miscalulation. Just saying,,,

[Jeff56]

Hand guns in the woods are just like hand guns on the streets. They are a compromise because we can't always carry a 12 gauge shotgun with 7 slugs loaded in the extended mag tube. If I have the option, I will always have my 12 gauge 18" shotgun with me. The trouble is that I don't always have that option.

Wow it's like I wrote this stuff. It's exactly my situation. Only I live in the woods so I'm always out in bear country. And I mean I live in "the woods".

I have that 18" barrel shotgun with 7 slugs in the barrel and they're all Brenneke K.O. so black bears have plenty to fear from them. I try to keep it on the ATV and my .44 mag. on me. My problem is that the bears want my food - a lot. Every time I cook out on the grill I have one come around chomping its teeth and licking its chops. It's amazing how loudly they can do that. It sounded like it was breaking bones the way it was chomping it's teeth together. I did go after it with the 12 ga. but I never got to see it. They know just where to hide where I can't see them before they can get away but there's no mistaking the noises they make. I've seen plenty of them too.

I think a .44 magnum is going to do pretty well on a black bear with the right loads involved. I have a S&W 629 so I can't use the real heavy loads but a 255 gr. hard cast bullet (Buffalo Bore) is going to be pretty effective especially if I get a side shot. It's that full bore charge to protect a cub that worries me the most though. You only see bear head coming at you and you know there's a few hundred pounds of bear behind it. So you have to penetrate that thick skull with a round or get that perfect shot in it's mouth which will only have to penetrate 1/8th inch of bone to hit brain. Still if I do happen to hit thick skull bone (and it's not only thick it's slanted like a tank's armor which will make a lot of bullets ricochet right off it) I think the heavy cast bullets made to cut and penetrate are going to give me my best shot at staying alive. It might not work but carrying one of those super size Smiths isn't my idea of fun. The .44 mag is heavy enough to carry. I just have to hope it's big enough to get the job done. I should get a .454 Alaskan or something I guess. But I found a great deal on the Smith so...