READ BEFORE POSTING! World Trade Center Terror Attack?

[Rich Lucibella]

Originally Posted by LAK

But an unanswered question is why was building 7 already prepared and wired for demolition prior to the attacks on the two towers?

Source, please? Or are you relying totally on the alleged use of the special secret code word, "pull" (by a real estate person), as proof that Building 7 was demolished by the Handlers?

Thank goodness he didn't use the words "soft probe" in referring to initial evals of the damage or the phrase, "It was really wet work" in referring to the fire fighting effort.

How do you possibly sleep nights? I'd require a bunker.
Rich

[tjhands]

Well, the goosebumps are still on my arms and I've got tears in my eyes..... Having read the first 30 or 40 posts on this thread, it took me back to that day in all its vivid ugliness.
God, do you guys remember the glorious patriotism that spread like red, white and blue fire across this country afterwards? I drove 200 miles that weekend to be with my family, and I remember seeing people on an interstate overpass waving a huge American flag at their countrymen driving below. Sadly, if people did that today, some would think them crazy or extreme.
I, for one, feel energized by reading this thread. My patriotic pilot light has never gone out, but right now I feel like singing the National Anthem and shaking the hand of the next person I see on the street.

Please, don't ever, ever close this thread. It's a historic time capsule.

[Mike Irwin]

"You know as well as I do that even before 9/11 you could not engage in stock trading on that level anonymously - and the SEC monitors trading in real time to detect abnormal stock trading. Who - by name - sat on it and stonewalled any immediate action as did those others leading up to these events?"

I beg your pardon?

Yes, the SEC monitors trading, but do you have any idea as to how many shares are traded every day?

Do you really think that the SEC can, 30 seconds after it happens, detect abnormal stock trading patterns as they are happening, or divine the ulterior motive of the individuals doing the trading?

That's certainly news to two friends of mine who work for the SEC.

If that were the case, how in the world did Martha Stewart fly under the radar for several months before the SEC got around to examining her trades?

Enron ring any bells?

Long-term patterns of fraudulent trading that the SEC never really picked up on until it was FAR too late?

And tell us, just what would those purchases on September 6, and September 7, 2001, have revealed about the impending attack, less than a week later?

To hear many conspiracy theorists tell it, the SEC should have immediately put all of the clues together in what I can only guess would be a blinding flash of insight...

"BOSS! BOSS! This is agent Poodleschnauzer in Chicago! We've got a weird pattern of put and call options on American Airlines!"

"My God, Poodleschnauzer, do you know what this means?"

"I do, boss! I means that Al Queda is putting into motion a plan to send agents onto four, and possibly more, domestic or international flights, hijack them, and crash them into the World Trade Center and Pentagon!"

"Brillian work, Poodleschnauzer. Miss Lotsatatas, get me the President!"

Yeah.

Really.

It DOES work like that.

[Slash in NC]

I think Mike Irwin nailed it, Thanks Mike.

God knows we shouldn't believe the folks actually on the planes who stated
they were being hi jacked by arab terrorist

[LAK]

Rich Lucibella

Source, please? Or are you relying totally on the alleged use of the special secret code word, "pull" (by a real estate person), as proof that Building 7 was demolished by the Handlers?

Nothing code about it - rather straight from the horse's mouth. Unless of course he was having a flashback to the morning trip to the bathroom; perhaps he has one of the old fashioned type with the cistern up near the ceiling with a chain and always goes in with a friend. It would take alot of hard work to misconstrue his owns words as he spoke them in a filmed interview.

It is interesting that - to my knowledge - there is no mention of the destruction of building 7 in the "independent" Commission report. I'd like to see what the insurance report says.

How do I possibly sleep nights? I sleep very soundly thank you, perhaps sounder than most. There are plenty of people not the least impressed with the official explanations of many aspects surrounding the events of September 11, 2001 - before, during and after - many of them quite conservative, some of them quite highly placed under administrations like Ronald Reagan's in addition to the current one. No doubt they could be accused of not being about to sleep at night too. Some of course sleep very soundly indeed - like John O'Neil.

[shootinstudent]

There are plenty of people not the least impressed with the official explanations of many aspects surrounding the events of September 11, 2001 - before, during and after - many of them quite conservative, some of them quite highly placed under administrations like Ronald Reagan's in addition to the current one.

Not only did you not provide a source for your claim about building 7, you didn't name any of the people you claim to know are "uncomfortable" with the official explanation.

[LAK]

[Press PAUSE]

Ah, the cassette player is still switched on!

"[My] claim"? No; it is Mr Larry Silverstein who made that claim on national TV. Not me.

Other people that have not been impressed with the official party line on surrounding issues of September 11, 2001?

Let's start with the FBI's New York head of counter-terrorism John O'Neil. He's dead and not available for future comment of course, but there is more than enough material attributed to him and people who associated with him. Here's a few others, enough to even keep a cassette recorder busy for awhile.

Ray McGovern
David Schippers
Joseph Wilson
Kenneth Williams, FBI
Sibel Edmonds, FBI
John Cole, FBI
Coleen Rowley, FBI
Robert Wright, FBI
John Vincent, FBI
Mark Flessner, Federal Prosecutor

This guy really needs a foil hat; William Rodriguez ....

[Rich Lucibella]

LAK-
I kinda thought that'd be your source. A Real Estate Developer used the word, "pull" in referring to the abandonment of Building 7 during a national television interview. Some AM Radio guys learned that "pull" is sometimes used as slang in the Explosive Ord Community.

Bingo: We have the cause for the Building 7 collapse. It must have been pre-wired.

Amazing-
The Handlers needed to kill the head of the FBI's NY CT unit to keep him quiet; but they seemed to have missed a wouldn't-be-missed RE Developer who was in on the gig.

They really are slipping these days.
Impressive investigative work, LAK. What's next? The REAL skinny behind Area 51?
Rich

[Mike Irwin]

I was talking to my neighbor last night, and used the word "PULL" several times as we were attempting to move his disabled Suburban back into its parking space.

I wonder if I was really telling him to demo it...

[buzz_knox]

You know, I just got a real bad image of "pulled pork." I didn't know they made that BBQ by putting demo charges up the pig's butt.

[gburner]

I wondered why all of my skeets were exploding in the trap when I yelled 'Pull'.

[redhawk41]

one thing is for certain:

the events of 9-11, regardless who perpetrated them, have not made the government any less intrusive in our lives.

in fact, the events of 9-11 have given the government inroad into our lives that we never would have allowed without this destructive catastrophe: Patriot Act, Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration.

If its broke, throw more government at it, right? please government, harass old ladies at the airport to protect me from terrorism. please government, disarm airline pilots and civilian passengers to protect me from terrorism. please government, wiretap my phone and track my library usage to protect me from terrorism. please government, i'll take your national id card and microchip implant, JUST PROTECT ME FROM THE TERRORISTS, I BEG OF YOU, ALL POWERFUL GOVERNMENT! :barf:

[gburner]

Please, spare us the melodrama...have you had your phone tapped, your library usage tracked; are you carrying a National ID card; have you had a micro chip installed ?

Yeah, the TSA is a cluster huddle and airport security is a pain in the ass, needlessly delaying travelers and abusing some with the overlording of their 'authority'.
The Patriot Act is in many ways overkill legislation passed in a kneejerk, paranoid atmosphere. I don't support much of it but it will pass into history. It is not the end of the world as we know it.

Instead of whning and wringing your hands, how about some of that good old 20-20 hindsight on what shoulda been done.

[redhawk41]

have you had your phone tapped, your library usage tracked

how would i know? it's not like they would or even have to tell me.

are you carrying a National ID card; have you had a micro chip installed ?

it's all about incrementalism. did your great-grandparents have a social security number?

Please, spare us the melodrama

i hardly consider recognizing government tyranny as melodrama.

Instead of whning and wringing your hands

frankly, there ain't a darn thing that can be or will be done about any of this. history is a relentless cycle of tyranny and revolution.

what shoulda been done

i absolutely abhor woulda shoulda and coulda. just living in the past, IMHO. but to humor you, maybe disarming all airline pilots wasn't such a good idea. http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=573

What are we going to do to prevent future attacks? secure the border maybe? kinda hypocritical don't ya think, that it is easier to come across the border with mexico than it is for an american citizen to get on a plane in america?

[gfen]

Please, spare us the melodrama...have you had your phone tapped, your library usage tracked;

Don't know, after all they don't have to tell me...

are you carrying a National ID card;

Coming soon to a driver's lisence near you!

have you had a micro chip installed ?

No, but I'll be carrying one in my shiny new passport for radio tracking.

Yeah, the TSA is a cluster huddle and airport security is a pain in the ass, needlessly delaying travelers and abusing some with the overlording of their 'authority'.

Jackbooted thugs secure in their power and absolute authority due to the "war on terrorism."

but it will pass into history.

Liberty lost is not so easily found again, regardless of what poitical party any of us chooses to follow. We're being divided and conquered by the elite, and don't ever forget that.

We need to stop blaming any one person in charge, and blame ALL of them.

That said, I wasn't a TFL member when this happened, but reading this thread reminded me of that morning, where we had a very similar unfolding of events on a private mail list I share with friends, many of whom lived in NYC. As a sysadmin at an ISP we had no TV or no radio, only the internet for our news. It was a scary, frightening time. Its a shame to see someone come along and kick the dust off this thread to do their grandstanding, and its as much of a shame to see how all of us (myself included) come in to do the same.

Close the thread, its not about firearms, and its doomed to continue its downhill slide into arguments and flamewars.

[Mike Irwin]

"Close the thread, its not about firearms, and its doomed to continue its downhill slide into arguments and flamewars."

I think that's the most prescient statemement made in this thread in...

3 years?

[gburner]

So, you just wanna gripe about whats been done and refuse to offer anything of substance about where we should have gone or where we should go from here. How useful.

This country has seen a war for independence, an invasion by the British, a war with the Indians, with Mexico, a Civil War, a war with Spain, two World Wars, a cold war, two Asian Wars and two wars in the middle east, along with almost constant fighting in one form or another in one place or another along the way. We, as a nation, have seen phenomenal growth over the past 200+ years, both in our individual living standard and in the power of our country. Do you really think that the current situation that we find ourselves in is going to have that great an overall negative impact on us or our liberties? I think not. We will see our way clear of this time and realize a greater amount of liberty than we have seen in the past several generations. Freedom from fear is highly under-rated. Whining and crying won't make it happen.

[LAK]

By all means close it; but if you are going to start passing out hats - make sure everyone qualified for one get's theirs too. There are alot of very credible and professional people that I am sure will be disappointed if they are left out.

Rich,

Reading Silverstein's transcript verbatem it is very hard work to take it any other way:

"...I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire

You mean those little fires on the 7th and 12th floor of a 47 story steel building Larry?

...and I said, 'Well, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life...maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it'

"Pull" what Larry? He doesn't sound like he is talking about people. And Larry's tone on film at this point doesn't imply anything other than an air of casual decision - not that the building was in a state of imminent collapse - and it could not have been from the two fires in any case.

...and they made that decision to pull ... uh, and we watched the building collapse."

What does "made that decision to pull ... uh" followed immediately by "and we watched the building collapse." mean Larry?

So the decision was made, and they "pulled everyone out of the building" and they "watched it collapse"? It of course collapsed right on que, after everyone was out - even though it was not in any danger of collpapse to begin with. That is conspeewassy theewy of the year; including the cooperation of an inanimate steel structure.

Right The editorial staff of Fire Engineering Magazine didn't buy it either.

Lot's more fairytales.

[Rich Lucibella]

Right The editorial staff of Fire Engineering Magazine didn't buy it either.

Source Please?
As to the rest of your dot connecting, keep digging, LAK. You should be hearing Chinese Choir singing soon.
Rich

[redhawk41]

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...ICLE_ID=131225

[shootinstudent]

The only reason that people aren't claiming a government missile hit the WTC is that there's a video. People continue, despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary, to claim that about the Pentagon. It's clear as day that two planes hit the WTC, and instead of taking the obvious explanation that they fell because of the two passenger jets (and that building 7 was hurt by the collapse of two enormous buildings on the same block), the tinfoil hat crowd were writing on the web within days to blame jews, george bush, and whoever else they've always blamed for all of their personal inadequacies.

I agree with Marko Kloos and Mike Irwin. These theories are completely irrational, and no amount of evidence will ever contradict the "inside info" that these people think they have.

[redhawk41]

no amount of evidence

"Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car."

"Such destruction of evidence shows the astounding ignorance of government officials to the value of a thorough, scientific investigation of the largest fire-induced collapse in world history. I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall."

- Bill Manning, Fire Engineering's editor in chief

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...ICLE_ID=131225

[shootinstudent]

Redhawk41,

That article sure doesn't say anything about demolition. All he seems to be saying is that he wants to learn more about the effects of fire on similar buildings. There isn't even the slightest hint that something other than a plane crash destroyed the buildings.

[redhawk41]

That article sure doesn't say anything about demolition

I never said anything about demolition.

All he seems to be saying is that he wants to learn more about the effects of fire on similar buildings.

Which of course noone ever will without access to the buildings' steel.

Would that information not be valuable in the future design and construction of large steel framed buildings?

[Rich Lucibella]

Redhawk-
You seem to be saying something quite different from LAK.

His claim is that the Staff of FE don't buy the story that fire brought Building 7 down.


Perhaps the real story is that .gov intentionally had these buildings constructed below grade so that they could, 20 years later, stage a terrorist attack and then bring them down with a satellite based energy beam in order to pass legislation enslaving us all as servants to the Global Plantation.

Who'da thunk it?
Rich