My 686 Pro has a "feature"!! - Page 4

tubeshooter · January 20, 2012, 09:58 PM

Don't feel bad. My item sent back for repair is at exactly 6 weeks from receipt of payment.

To be fair, they told me the part is "backordered" and they took the last week of December off.

I think you will have to call them if you want an update; at least I have found this to be the case. They ask for an e-mail address, but don't seem to like using it. I guess that's just the way it is.

It could be that due to the high-publicity nature, they want to make sure and get it right. Or it could be that they're just slammed from putting out too many guns too fast with the buying frenzy and the returns are catching up with them. I can't say.

dieselbeef · January 21, 2012, 12:16 PM

maybe the inspector just thought the fluting looked cooler....

LockedBreech · January 21, 2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japle

Folks, I spent 11 years doing final QC on medical equipment that was used in cardiac cath labs, where you go to have an angioplasty done to open a clogged artery.
The QC on this gun is the equivalent of me letting a device go out the door with test software loaded that would show the patient’s vital signs as being normal no matter what.

If I did that, even if no one was hurt, do you think I’d keep my job?

To tell you the truth, when I first noticed the screw-up, I laughed. I thought it was funny. I don’t think it’s funny anymore. The more I think about it, the madder I get. I doubt I’ll be in a better mood when someone from S&W contacts me after the first of the year.

You're right to be mad. If someone was a first time revolver buyer (like me) and didn't know what to look for, and loaded that puppy with high power defense loads, the gun could well fail at a life-ending moment.

I hope they give you your unfluted cylinder and be snappy about it!

Quick question though. Why does unfluted cost more and is a custom option? I know it's stronger and looks awesome, but isn't it actually LESS machining they have to do?

jborushko · January 21, 2012, 03:18 PM

i would have never noticed... i am soo checking right now

whoo... my flutes are good.

(S&W) though i did notice that my 28-2 the cyl stops are inline with the cyl's (and the bolt is centered to the bottom strap), my model 60-14 they are inline with the flutes (the bolt is offset to the right), my 325 (performance center) is inline with the cyl (the bolt is centered).

rugers seem also to place it in different spots:
SP101(.357) is off set the the cyl and the flute (bolt is FAR to the right)
super blackhawk .44 (not fluted) is inline with the cyl (bolt centered)

Dan wesson 15-2s are inline with the cyl (bolt centered)

Salmoneye · January 21, 2012, 04:54 PM

Just checked an early 90's SBH, and the stops are not centered , and what you are calling the 'bolt' is offset to the right on this one...

Japle · January 21, 2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Posted by Scholar:
Why does unfluted cost more and is a custom option? I know it's stronger and looks awesome, but isn't it actually LESS machining they have to do?

It's not part of their standard product line. The Performance Center handles unfluted cylinders and other "special order" stuff.

LockedBreech · January 21, 2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japle

It's not part of their standard product line. The Performance Center handles unfluted cylinders and other "special order" stuff.

Oh, okay! Thanks!

jborushko · January 21, 2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

...and what you are calling the 'bolt' is offset to the right on this one...

im calling it the "bolt" because in smith and wesson speak thats the correct term "cylinder bolt"

in colt terms its "cylinder stop"

ruger calls it "cylinder latch"

dan wesson calls it "bolt"

Japle · January 25, 2012, 04:56 PM

UPDATE: 1/25/12

I got a call from Jon Young at S&W Customer Service. He says getting an unfluted cylinder installed won’t be a problem, BUT:

1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label.

2. When he told me on 1/3 that nobody would change anything inside the gun, that all I had to do was specify in my letter that I wanted the action job left alone, that this was routine and wouldn’t be any problem, that wasn’t true. They’re going to replace the Bang, Inc springs and the C&S extended firing pin. The parts will be returned to me and I’ll have to install them again.

Jon claimed he thought what he told me was true, but when I questioned him, it turns out he claimed he didn’t know and was just guessing. He actually had no damn idea if what he was telling me was the truth. I strongly suspect he was just making it all up as he went along, telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. To say I’m displease at having smoke blown up my rear end on two separate issues by a guy who’s representing S&W is a titanic understatement.

He’s walking the gun back to the repair section. He says they expect to ship my gun tomorrow.

Right now I’m seriously POed. Up until now, this was a case of carelessness and failure of Quality Control in the manufacturing process. Now I’ve been lied to. Flat-out lied to.

I am not happy.

Sevens · January 25, 2012, 05:26 PM

Yes, I can see that in your post!

I wonder what recourse you have at this point?

I'm not liking this much, either.

18DAI · January 25, 2012, 05:28 PM

"performance center".....indeed.

wsp · January 25, 2012, 06:15 PM

Japle, I don't blame you for being POed.
Congrats on the unfluted cylinder.
As for Number 1, the cylinder, they don't want that beast out there. But you have photos of it.
As for number 2, that sux. I would tell the CS Rep I wanted the money for a gunsmith to reinstall the springs and pin. it's probably a "corporate" policy that they can't ship a gun back unless it's up to factory specs. But after you were sold that gun with a potentially lethal defect they should make an exception.
You still did good with what you've got so far. I love the look of an unfluted cylinder.
I like the old S&Ws. But I would not buy a new one.
Refer the CS rep to this thread.
Heck, I'm POed now

tubeshooter · January 25, 2012, 06:45 PM

I hate they lied to you - but at least they're getting a move-on for you.

I called the first of this week; same story. "It might be awhile". Jeez, you've only had it since November and it's almost February...

Hope they make it right for both of us.

laytonj1 · January 25, 2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label.

Just thinking outloud here but, I'd take my time before sending it back. If your guns comes back first I'd say keep it.

Quote:

2. When he told me on 1/3 that nobody would change anything inside the gun, that all I had to do was specify in my letter that I wanted the action job left alone, that this was routine and wouldn’t be any problem, that wasn’t true. They’re going to replace the Bang, Inc springs and the C&S extended firing pin. The parts will be returned to me and I’ll have to install them again.

While that sucks, it does not suprise me. Ruger is the exact same way. They will remove any aftermarket parts/mods and return them.

Jim

skidder · January 25, 2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label.

Did he tell you this on the phone or by email?

Does your cylinder have to arrive before they'll ship the gun? If not, I'd hold on to it.

Duke City Six · January 25, 2012, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the update. I've been following this thread and wondering how it would turn out.

It doesn't surprise me either that they are returning the gun to spec, but they shouldn't have led you to believe otherwise.

wsp · January 25, 2012, 09:32 PM

Yep. After reading these last few responses I would say when you get the gun back, don't send in the old cylinder. What they gonna do???

Salmoneye · January 25, 2012, 09:55 PM

I am so sorry to hear the outcome of this...

Thank you for the update though...

Contrast Man · January 26, 2012, 02:00 AM

I can see why one would be upset over the lack of respect shown to you by this particular rep. I can't say I have direct experience with S&W Customer Service myself, but I do hope this is only a one time occurrence on how it was handled.

Quote:

Yep. After reading these last few responses I would say when you get the gun back, don't send in the old cylinder. What they gonna do???

What I imagine they will do is not send the gun back until they receive the defective cylinder. Either that or they could send the repaired gun back, complete with a bill for the unfluted cylinder and any labor incurred because the defective part in question was not received and could not be documented for warranty work or something along those lines.

That's just an assumption on my end, as I don't work in any aspect of the industry; but based on the experience already, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if something like that was pulled.

Best of luck to you Japle.

spacecoast · January 26, 2012, 09:03 AM

Gee, if the cylinder was just unfluted in the first place all this could have been avoided.

I think it's coming out OK for you though. The whacked cylinder would have been a curiosity for sure (and maybe of some value to a collector) but I can understand why they want it back. At least they are sending your AM parts back, what a hassle if they decided not to!

Quote:

I would say when you get the gun back, don't send in the old cylinder. What they gonna do???

Ignore him on the next issue?

wsp · January 26, 2012, 10:18 AM

I have re-thought my previous post. S&W may see a liability issue with that defective cylinder being out there. Someone could put it back in the gun or try it in another gun and blow it up. I can see famous last words, "Naw man, dat cylinder won't ever blow up on ya, watch".

Or, somebody could put it in another gun and then send that gun back to Smith and they'll have to put another unfluted cylinder in that one too.

Another question, has any one ever compared the weight of an unfluted cylinder to a fluted one? And what is the purpose of putting flutes in a cylinder?

l98ster · January 26, 2012, 10:30 AM

I would have to bet that finding a cylinder that was mis-machined and still made it out of the factory is a once in a lifetime find. The rarety must be VERY high with something like that.

If it were me, I might consider keeping the gun and the cylinder and look for a new cylinder on gunbroker or keep my eye out at a gunshow. You may in fact have somewhat of a collectors item there.

Try to do whatever possible to keep the mis-machined cylinder. You will never get another one and its definitly a cool conversation piece with your shooting buddies!!

-George

Japle · January 26, 2012, 11:12 AM

UPDATE: 1/26 @ 10:07AM:

Jon just called from S&W CS. They’ll install the unfluted cylinder (he said they have it ready to install right now) and they’ll leave my action job alone.

So we have some progress.

Sevens · January 26, 2012, 02:06 PM

"Like the sands of the hourglass, so are the days of our lives."

This guy is a three headed monster. How many different sides of his face does he speak from?

Duke City Six · January 26, 2012, 10:53 PM

Good news. Now, of course, we would like another update after you actually get it back.

January 21, 2012, 03:18 PM	#79
jborushko Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2009 Location: Tacoma WA Posts: 469	i would have never noticed... i am soo checking right now whoo... my flutes are good. (S&W) though i did notice that my 28-2 the cyl stops are inline with the cyl's (and the bolt is centered to the bottom strap), my model 60-14 they are inline with the flutes (the bolt is offset to the right), my 325 (performance center) is inline with the cyl (the bolt is centered). rugers seem also to place it in different spots: SP101(.357) is off set the the cyl and the flute (bolt is FAR to the right) super blackhawk .44 (not fluted) is inline with the cyl (bolt centered) Dan wesson 15-2s are inline with the cyl (bolt centered) Last edited by jborushko; January 21, 2012 at 03:33 PM.

January 25, 2012, 05:26 PM	#85
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	Yes, I can see that in your post! I wonder what recourse you have at this point? I'm not liking this much, either. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 26, 2012, 02:06 PM	#99
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	"Like the sands of the hourglass, so are the days of our lives." This guy is a three headed monster. How many different sides of his face does he speak from? __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 20, 2012, 09:58 PM	#76
tubeshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Posts: 231	Don't feel bad. My item sent back for repair is at exactly 6 weeks from receipt of payment. To be fair, they told me the part is "backordered" and they took the last week of December off. I think you will have to call them if you want an update; at least I have found this to be the case. They ask for an e-mail address, but don't seem to like using it. I guess that's just the way it is. It could be that due to the high-publicity nature, they want to make sure and get it right. Or it could be that they're just slammed from putting out too many guns too fast with the buying frenzy and the returns are catching up with them. I can't say.

January 21, 2012, 12:16 PM	#77
dieselbeef Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2011 Location: myakka city fl Posts: 312	maybe the inspector just thought the fluting looked cooler....

January 21, 2012, 04:54 PM	#80
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Just checked an early 90's SBH, and the stops are not centered , and what you are calling the 'bolt' is offset to the right on this one...

January 25, 2012, 04:56 PM	#84
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	UPDATE: 1/25/12 I got a call from Jon Young at S&W Customer Service. He says getting an unfluted cylinder installed won’t be a problem, BUT: 1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label. 2. When he told me on 1/3 that nobody would change anything inside the gun, that all I had to do was specify in my letter that I wanted the action job left alone, that this was routine and wouldn’t be any problem, that wasn’t true. They’re going to replace the Bang, Inc springs and the C&S extended firing pin. The parts will be returned to me and I’ll have to install them again. Jon claimed he thought what he told me was true, but when I questioned him, it turns out he claimed he didn’t know and was just guessing. He actually had no damn idea if what he was telling me was the truth. I strongly suspect he was just making it all up as he went along, telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. To say I’m displease at having smoke blown up my rear end on two separate issues by a guy who’s representing S&W is a titanic understatement. He’s walking the gun back to the repair section. He says they expect to ship my gun tomorrow. Right now I’m seriously POed. Up until now, this was a case of carelessness and failure of Quality Control in the manufacturing process. Now I’ve been lied to. Flat-out lied to. I am not happy.

January 25, 2012, 05:28 PM	#86
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	"performance center".....indeed.

January 25, 2012, 06:15 PM	#87
wsp Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 41	Japle, I don't blame you for being POed. Congrats on the unfluted cylinder. As for Number 1, the cylinder, they don't want that beast out there. But you have photos of it. As for number 2, that sux. I would tell the CS Rep I wanted the money for a gunsmith to reinstall the springs and pin. it's probably a "corporate" policy that they can't ship a gun back unless it's up to factory specs. But after you were sold that gun with a potentially lethal defect they should make an exception. You still did good with what you've got so far. I love the look of an unfluted cylinder. I like the old S&Ws. But I would not buy a new one. Refer the CS rep to this thread. Heck, I'm POed now

January 25, 2012, 06:45 PM	#88
tubeshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Posts: 231	I hate they lied to you - but at least they're getting a move-on for you. I called the first of this week; same story. "It might be awhile". Jeez, you've only had it since November and it's almost February... Hope they make it right for both of us.

January 25, 2012, 08:48 PM	#91
Duke City Six Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2010 Posts: 304	Thanks for the update. I've been following this thread and wondering how it would turn out. It doesn't surprise me either that they are returning the gun to spec, but they shouldn't have led you to believe otherwise.

January 25, 2012, 09:32 PM	#92
wsp Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 41	Yep. After reading these last few responses I would say when you get the gun back, don't send in the old cylinder. What they gonna do???

January 25, 2012, 09:55 PM	#93
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	I am so sorry to hear the outcome of this... Thank you for the update though...

January 26, 2012, 10:18 AM	#96
wsp Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 41	I have re-thought my previous post. S&W may see a liability issue with that defective cylinder being out there. Someone could put it back in the gun or try it in another gun and blow it up. I can see famous last words, "Naw man, dat cylinder won't ever blow up on ya, watch". Or, somebody could put it in another gun and then send that gun back to Smith and they'll have to put another unfluted cylinder in that one too. Another question, has any one ever compared the weight of an unfluted cylinder to a fluted one? And what is the purpose of putting flutes in a cylinder?

January 26, 2012, 10:30 AM	#97
l98ster Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Location: Hopewell Junction, NY Posts: 454	I would have to bet that finding a cylinder that was mis-machined and still made it out of the factory is a once in a lifetime find. The rarety must be VERY high with something like that. If it were me, I might consider keeping the gun and the cylinder and look for a new cylinder on gunbroker or keep my eye out at a gunshow. You may in fact have somewhat of a collectors item there. Try to do whatever possible to keep the mis-machined cylinder. You will never get another one and its definitly a cool conversation piece with your shooting buddies!! -George

January 26, 2012, 11:12 AM	#98
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	UPDATE: 1/26 @ 10:07AM: Jon just called from S&W CS. They’ll install the unfluted cylinder (he said they have it ready to install right now) and they’ll leave my action job alone. So we have some progress.

January 26, 2012, 10:53 PM	#100
Duke City Six Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2010 Posts: 304	Good news. Now, of course, we would like another update after you actually get it back.