My 686 Pro has a "feature"!! - Page 2

Sevens · December 23, 2011, 01:12 AM

I still love S&W, and I still trust S&W...

But if this were me running the show, the OP would get something really nice in return-- something worthy of this epic failure they let out of the plant.

Something really nice, memorable, FREE and something to remind us all why we love Smith & Wesson.

That abomination is, well, sickening.

BarryLee · December 23, 2011, 01:21 AM

Does anyone know for certain if they machine theses parts in-house or sub them out?

Webleymkv · December 23, 2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

I also want them to leave the damn sideplate on and stay out of the action. I like the way I set it up. It's smooth and light, with no "stacking" and a clean let-off.

That may or may not be possible. Generally, when a cylinder is replaced the gun has to be re-timed and if the hand has to be replaced in the process, the sideplate will have to come off (though there shouldn't be any need to mess with the rest of the action beyond disassembly and reassembly). Hopefully, they can either fit the ratchet on the current cylinder to the new one or re-time the new cylinder and ratchet by fitting the ratchet teeth alone as those two instances would not require the sideplate to be removed.

spacecoast · December 23, 2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Once the machinist got started, he ignored the number of flutes and machined it as a six-shooter.

Do you think maybe they machine the flutes after the chambers are bored and used the wrong program? Hard to believe that one slipped by the inspector. Very glad to hear it didn't kaboom on you.

drail · December 23, 2011, 01:28 PM

Basic human inattention and CAD CAM machining. Have to wonder how many others were done this way. I am willing to bet once S&W discovers that this goof is all over the internet somebody's going to be looking for a new job. Or maybe they'll just claim this is the new improved technique and functions just as well as the old technique. But at least now I can say I have seen everything.

buddah4snow · December 23, 2011, 01:36 PM

Looking at the picture, the cylinder that is closest to lining up in the middle of the flute (the one at 9 o'clock as we're looking at it) looks so thin I'm not sure I'd take a chance on firing anything at all through it......IMHO

Japle · December 24, 2011, 03:02 PM

Folks, I spent 11 years doing final QC on medical equipment that was used in cardiac cath labs, where you go to have an angioplasty done to open a clogged artery.
The QC on this gun is the equivalent of me letting a device go out the door with test software loaded that would show the patient’s vital signs as being normal no matter what.

If I did that, even if no one was hurt, do you think I’d keep my job?

To tell you the truth, when I first noticed the screw-up, I laughed. I thought it was funny. I don’t think it’s funny anymore. The more I think about it, the madder I get. I doubt I’ll be in a better mood when someone from S&W contacts me after the first of the year.

lee n. field · December 24, 2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

What’s wrong with this picture?

Before I read the rest of the thread.

The fluting isn't always nicely between the holes. The cylinder wall is especially thin at the 10 o'clock position.

bluetopper · December 25, 2011, 12:12 AM

Your best bet when you send it back is to not mention anything about the sideplate or the action, never bring it up.

Walklightly · December 25, 2011, 06:33 AM

Quote:

It might be worth something to a collector of "bloopers", if you could find the person. I personally would not shoot it, the chambers at 7, 9 and 11 o'clock don't look beefy enough for plinking grade .357, much less hot handloads or SD/hunting ammo.

You might have something there if it wasn't suppose to be that way from S&W. Like that old stamp with the plane printed upside down.

I was working parts at a Honda motorcycle dealer. Ordered a replacement side panel for an older (1988 VF1000R) vintage sport bike. The decal on it was put on upside down. The guy rejected it after inspection. I try to convince him that it might have more value. Anyway, I was tempted to buy it as dealer cost ($100) just because.

I'm sure they destroyed it, and there was hell to pay in Japan.

Japle · December 25, 2011, 12:32 PM

Anyone who thinks this gun has significant collector's value can have it for $1,200.

You pay for shipping!

coop2564 · December 25, 2011, 10:45 PM

Glad you caught after buying it, but would of been better to catch it before. If new i would take back to dealer instead of a long winded deal with Smith.

Japle · December 26, 2011, 09:11 PM

Back about 1974, I met a guy who was trying to duplicate Elmer Keith's .44 Maggie loads - 240 gr SWC over 22 gr of 2400. The problem was, he made a slight mistake and used Bullseye instead of 2400. The gun was a Super Blackhawk.

The wall of the top chamber blew out, blasted off the tops of the two adjacent chambers and split the cases, igniting the powder charges in those two rounds. The top strap peeled off from the front end and whizzed back, cutting a neat groove in the shooters scalp. The top strap was never found.

My 686 probably wouldn't have produced such dramatic results, but a buldged cylinder would be a distinct possibility if I fired .357 factory ammo in it.

I prefer not to take the chance.

Japle · December 27, 2011, 10:57 AM

Another pic or three ...

10-96 · January 1, 2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Your best bet when you send it back is to not mention anything about the sideplate or the action, never bring it up.

I dunno. I put some work into my Program Assistant's 58 before he decided to send it in for a re-finish. It came back without the smoothed rebound block and the springs I installed. There's a chance yours could come back in factory spec too. If you know how to remove the innards- I would let them use their parts for function test and send a note that you will not be paying for them and not to add them to your bill.

laytonj1 · January 1, 2012, 04:02 PM

Just curious, but how does one buy a new gun, get an action job done on it and shoot it before they notice something that obvious?

Jim

jimbob86 · January 1, 2012, 04:15 PM

Some folks would not know any better, Jim.

Err'body who owns gun is not a gunny, same as everybody who owns a guitar is not a musician. And in this case, somebody who suddenly gets the urge to make some noise with an instrument like that could be in for some ...... interesting......... side effects.

Maybe "everybody with a fire extinguisher is not a fireman" would have been a better analogy .....

johnbt · January 1, 2012, 06:34 PM

Oh great, first they tell me I have to clean a new gun before I shoot it and now I have to inspect it too? So much for the old ways. Don't people still stop on the way home from the gun store and shoot a couple of rounds into a riverbank or empty field? I guess not.

You can't see the problem while looking over the sights from the rear.

Japle · January 1, 2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Just curious, but how does one buy a new gun, get an action job done on it and shoot it before they notice something that obvious?

Because it's not all that obvious. It sure isn't something you'd look for. You only notice it if you look at the front of the cylinder or look closely at the side of the cylinder as you cycle the action.

The photos have been posted on 12 different forums that I know of. You'd be suprised at how many people don't see the problem even when they're told there's something wrong.

johnwilliamson062 · January 1, 2012, 07:15 PM

some of the 22s have flutes that don't match the chambers at all. Maybe people have become used to it not matching.

Salmoneye · January 1, 2012, 08:55 PM

I was surfing learning about 686's when I saw this post the other day...

I only signed up here to keep an eye on this thread, and encourage the OP to keep us informed...

Walklightly · January 1, 2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Just curious, but how does one buy a new gun, get an action job done on it and shoot it before they notice something that obvious?

Jim

S&W knows way more about guns than you will ever dream of, and they missed it!

You have powers of observations that people don't have power of observations. I'm curious why your curious?

myshoulderissore · January 1, 2012, 09:15 PM

Kind of off topic, but the first thing i noticed was the machining marks... My little Rossi has less, and less obvious machining marks. Is that normal? I would think that for the money, S&W would be made to a higher standard.

checkmyswag · January 1, 2012, 10:22 PM

I think they will replace the cylinder or replace the gun and be happy you noticed it and didn't have a KABOOM resulting in injuries that later brought a high dollar lawsuit as they made an unsafe gun.

jad0110 · January 1, 2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Just curious, but how does one buy a new gun, get an action job done on it and shoot it before they notice something that obvious?
Because it's not all that obvious. It sure isn't something you'd look for. You only notice it if you look at the front of the cylinder or look closely at the side of the cylinder as you cycle the action.

I agree with Japle. This simply isn't something most of us think to check, simply because it seems so obvious.

December 23, 2011, 01:12 AM	#26
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	I still love S&W, and I still trust S&W... But if this were me running the show, the OP would get something really nice in return-- something worthy of this epic failure they let out of the plant. Something really nice, memorable, FREE and something to remind us all why we love Smith & Wesson. That abomination is, well, sickening. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 23, 2011, 01:21 AM	#27
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,965	Does anyone know for certain if they machine theses parts in-house or sub them out? __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

December 23, 2011, 01:28 PM	#30
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Basic human inattention and CAD CAM machining. Have to wonder how many others were done this way. I am willing to bet once S&W discovers that this goof is all over the internet somebody's going to be looking for a new job. Or maybe they'll just claim this is the new improved technique and functions just as well as the old technique. But at least now I can say I have seen everything.

December 23, 2011, 01:36 PM	#31
buddah4snow Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: U.P. of MI Posts: 42	Looking at the picture, the cylinder that is closest to lining up in the middle of the flute (the one at 9 o'clock as we're looking at it) looks so thin I'm not sure I'd take a chance on firing anything at all through it......IMHO

December 24, 2011, 03:02 PM	#32
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Folks, I spent 11 years doing final QC on medical equipment that was used in cardiac cath labs, where you go to have an angioplasty done to open a clogged artery. The QC on this gun is the equivalent of me letting a device go out the door with test software loaded that would show the patient’s vital signs as being normal no matter what. If I did that, even if no one was hurt, do you think I’d keep my job? To tell you the truth, when I first noticed the screw-up, I laughed. I thought it was funny. I don’t think it’s funny anymore. The more I think about it, the madder I get. I doubt I’ll be in a better mood when someone from S&W contacts me after the first of the year.

December 25, 2011, 12:12 AM	#34
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,214	Your best bet when you send it back is to not mention anything about the sideplate or the action, never bring it up.

December 25, 2011, 12:32 PM	#36
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Anyone who thinks this gun has significant collector's value can have it for $1,200. You pay for shipping!

December 25, 2011, 10:45 PM	#37
coop2564 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 330	Glad you caught after buying it, but would of been better to catch it before. If new i would take back to dealer instead of a long winded deal with Smith.

December 26, 2011, 09:11 PM	#38
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Back about 1974, I met a guy who was trying to duplicate Elmer Keith's .44 Maggie loads - 240 gr SWC over 22 gr of 2400. The problem was, he made a slight mistake and used Bullseye instead of 2400. The gun was a Super Blackhawk. The wall of the top chamber blew out, blasted off the tops of the two adjacent chambers and split the cases, igniting the powder charges in those two rounds. The top strap peeled off from the front end and whizzed back, cutting a neat groove in the shooters scalp. The top strap was never found. My 686 probably wouldn't have produced such dramatic results, but a buldged cylinder would be a distinct possibility if I fired .357 factory ammo in it. I prefer not to take the chance.

December 27, 2011, 10:57 AM	#39
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	Another pic or three ...

January 1, 2012, 04:02 PM	#41
laytonj1 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 4,443	Just curious, but how does one buy a new gun, get an action job done on it and shoot it before they notice something that obvious? Jim

January 1, 2012, 04:15 PM	#42
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Some folks would not know any better, Jim. Err'body who owns gun is not a gunny, same as everybody who owns a guitar is not a musician. And in this case, somebody who suddenly gets the urge to make some noise with an instrument like that could be in for some ...... interesting......... side effects. Maybe "everybody with a fire extinguisher is not a fireman" would have been a better analogy .....

January 1, 2012, 06:34 PM	#43
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Oh great, first they tell me I have to clean a new gun before I shoot it and now I have to inspect it too? So much for the old ways. Don't people still stop on the way home from the gun store and shoot a couple of rounds into a riverbank or empty field? I guess not. You can't see the problem while looking over the sights from the rear.

January 1, 2012, 07:15 PM	#45
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,994	some of the 22s have flutes that don't match the chambers at all. Maybe people have become used to it not matching.

January 1, 2012, 08:55 PM	#46
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	I was surfing learning about 686's when I saw this post the other day... I only signed up here to keep an eye on this thread, and encourage the OP to keep us informed...

January 1, 2012, 09:15 PM	#48
myshoulderissore Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 447	Kind of off topic, but the first thing i noticed was the machining marks... My little Rossi has less, and less obvious machining marks. Is that normal? I would think that for the money, S&W would be made to a higher standard.

January 1, 2012, 10:22 PM	#49
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	I think they will replace the cylinder or replace the gun and be happy you noticed it and didn't have a KABOOM resulting in injuries that later brought a high dollar lawsuit as they made an unsafe gun.