One Shot, One Kill

Key2America · September 8, 2001, 11:06 AM

One Shot, One Kill. Exclude unattainable sniper guns that we, average people, can't obtain. The question: What rifle would you choose for a scenario where you have everything riding on your next shot. Either from your arsenal or "wish list." Include sights, scopes, etc. Picture a $50,000 bet or worse yet someone's life hanging in the balance on your shot. Push the limit on distance, too.... distance for you that is. A rifle that you can count on to put the bullet right in the center of the cross-hairs (or whatever).... any takers?

Gewehr98 · September 8, 2001, 12:02 PM

Not so hard to purchase as one thinks.

The Remington 700PSS has garnered a reputation as an excellent rifle that shoots sub-MOA, straight out of the box, sometimes found for less than $800.00. While it is somewhat limited in distribution, it can still be found available to the general population without problem. I have a 700PSS, it surprised the heck out of me for a production gun.

Now, if you still want a 700PSS, or just want the accuracy of the 700PSS, but don't want to cough up that kind of money, it's a poorly-kept industry secret that the only thing special about the 700PSS is the H-S Precision PSS stock.

In other words, if you go buy a Remington 700VLS, or VSS, (Varmint) you have the same barreled action as the 700PSS, no kidding! Remington will even confirm this, the 700PSS is built on the same assembly line, no Custom Shop tweaking like the Sendero. Availability of the 700 Varmint model is better, and you even have a wider choice of chamberings, to include the .260 Remington, which is no slouch in the accuracy and range department. Granted, they sell the 700PSS in .300 Win Mag and now .300 Remington Ultra Mag, which one can only wonder why, since law enforcement engagement distances seldom exceed 100 yards.

The Savage 10FP is another tight shooter, again, with a reasonable price tag. There was also the Savage 112BVSS, with laminated stock, heavy stainless barrel, and a reasonable price.

Of course, you can be a total goofball like me, and build your own on a wildcat chambering:

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Fa...erdiction.html

**4V50 Gary** · September 8, 2001, 12:11 PM

Remington Varminter. BTW, the Ruger police M77 is no different from their Target/Varminter either. Ruger uses a different color laminated stock (evil grey for police and good brown for us) and like the Remington, lacks an extra swivel stud for the bipod. Of course, those new Savages are up and coming and gaining a respectable following.

Steve Smith · September 8, 2001, 12:35 PM

Another vote for the Savage 10 FP.

El Rojo · September 8, 2001, 01:05 PM

I can't say enough about my Rem 700 VS with a H-S Precision PRT 25 Tactical stock, IOR 20MOA tapered base and 30mm rings, and Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT scope. This gun shoots very well. Sub MOA on a constant basis. It shoots much better than I do.

DAVID NANCARROW · September 8, 2001, 01:22 PM

When my friends and I get together for a lunch shoot, and the biggest 5 shot group is buying, I reach for a fairly bone stock M700 VS which I lightened the trigger pull on slightly with the twist of a set screw, removed a bit of material in the barrel channel for air circulation, and handloaded Nosler Ballistic Tips on Rem 308 cases. I have not had to buy lunch yet with this rifle, and while my more affluent friends buy scopes costing more than my rifle, I'm looking through an el-cheapo 6.5x20 50mm Simmons which is going for $100 give or take, and have used it for several years now with no regrets. A $15 adjustable nylon sling lets me carry it around. For a grand total of $600 for the setup, I am very pleased.

Schmit · September 8, 2001, 02:21 PM

OK, the rifle I would choose for this would be out of my arsenal (though you excluded it in your first sentence, you allowed me to use it based on it being in my arsenal)

Accuracy International, AWP, .308, topped with a Leupold Mark 4 M-1 (w/MilDot) firing Federal Match BTHP.

It always puts the shot where it is suppose to go... that is IF I do my part.

Art Eatman · September 8, 2001, 04:25 PM

Ol' Pet. Been totin' that heavy SOB around for 30 years; we're sorta married up together. I can get 3-shot 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and have gotten 4-shot 4" groups at 500.

Maybe I oughta name it "Ma Bell"? But it snap-shoots real good, too.

It's a Weatherby Mark V, 26" .30-'06; scoped with a Simmons 44 Mag. Canjar trigger. About 9-1/2 pounds, fully dressed.

, Art

Legionnaire · September 8, 2001, 09:21 PM

Remintgon 700 VSSF in .308, Leupold VX-III 3.5-10X Long Range Tactical M1 with mil dot reticle in Badger Ordnance rings on a BO 20 MOA base. Have had the crown recut, bolt trued, and trigger set to 3# exactly. 1/2 MOA groups all day (literally) with Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr ammo. I'd be sure of first round hits out to 500 yards, and with a spotter using a good scope, 90% sure of first or second round hits out to 800. (Combo's supposed to be good out to 1000 plus . . . but haven't had opportunity to work at that distance.)

HankL · September 8, 2001, 09:36 PM

Key2America, I would take any rifle or pistol that I was very farmiliar with and do what was needed at the appropriate range. Not from a wish list but one of the few I try to stay honed on.
Shooting Many Firearms Is Really A Problem

HokieShooter · September 10, 2001, 09:43 AM

PSG-1.

M700 · September 10, 2001, 02:20 PM

My M700P with Leupold 4.5-14x40 AO Tactical with Mildot. No problems so far. My best 5 shot group has been .6 MOA at 100 yards, and my cold barrel shot is always about 1/2 inch high dead center. I'd bet the farm on it.

Mithirium · September 10, 2001, 02:41 PM

Remington 700 LTR 308win Leupold 3.5-10x Tactical Mildot scope.
Its a great rifle, 20" fluted heavy barrel, pretty light when compared to PSS, thus you can pack it along for hunts and shoots sub MOA out of the box.

scouter27 · September 10, 2001, 03:48 PM

HokieShooter, please elaborate: Re: Why PSG1, not PSG-1 BTW.

I would also choose the AWP. It is, IMO, the best precision platform out there.

mussi · September 10, 2001, 06:24 PM

I'll take a SIG 550 sniper and some good target ammo. The gun with
good ammo shoots 0.3 MOA.

Charmedlyfe · September 11, 2001, 12:14 PM

No question. The new FN tac rifle, and a Nightforce NXS. The FN is an impressive piece of equipment, and I would only use the best optics (not just the best-known). My NXS is the finest scope I've ever handled, and THAT is the most important part of the equation. The FN can shoot 1/2moa 5-shot groups all day long.

Clint Tickler · September 11, 2001, 12:38 PM

I'd pull out my 700 VLS in .308 with the Leupold 8.5 x 25 on it. Total confidence in where the next bullet is going.

Key2America · September 13, 2001, 11:07 AM

Clint I am sure leaning toward the Rem 700 VS .308 with Leupold.... may be my next purchase from all the good reviews I read. BTW my name is Clint (or Clinton) too....

Clint Tickler · September 13, 2001, 12:01 PM

Hi Clinton. I love my VLS. I bought it Mother's Day weekend 2000 in order to show my respect to the million mom march.
SWFA still has that scope on special I see. It's a discontinued model in the 1" tube anyway. I've floated the barrel and adjusted the trigger on this rifle and that's it. I bought a Score-High pillar bedding kit for it but haven't installed it yet. It shoots sub 1/2" groups now and I don't know if the kit will improve it or not.

Mute · September 13, 2001, 07:46 PM

An Accuracy International AWP would be my first choice, but given your criteria, I'd choose a Rem 700PSS. Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10X Long Range M1.

HankL · September 13, 2001, 09:06 PM

Key2America, I suppose that If I had to take a rifle from my small inventory I would use my home made M-21 with ART II optics. Fairly crude but I am very close to it.

The rig and M118 Ball is very impressive. 650 yd head shots on geese are confirmed. Of course during season and with proper liscence and waterfowl stamps. They are pretty good eating as well.
Why do you ask this question? If a person never spends the time and effort to first become a marksman and second to learn their gear it matters little on what they bring to "the firing line"
If we were talking about a 100 yd shot with time to set up I would consider a Remington 40XBR in .223 to be perfect.
I do not mean to offend you or start a discussion on goose hunting.

I sure would like to have a 16 inch cannon from the Navy with a good sighting system

Key2America · September 14, 2001, 01:00 AM

HankL, I am a Marine Sharpshooter, or was. I asked the question for purely selfish reasons. I used the question to do research to find myself a rifle that will do for me what I asked of you. Until lately, I hadn't shot any weapon since Viet Nam, I needed some insight into the latest weapons and such... thanks for your input.

Art Eatman · September 14, 2001, 01:05 PM

Key2America: I think it's obvious from all the posts that most any rifle can be made to be very accurate. Almost any cartridge whose muzzle velocity is above some 2,600 or 2,700 ft/sec will play Ma Bell. There are many good scopes; any with at least 9X or 10X or more maximum magnification will let you see a target "way out there". Reliability of the package is almost a given, with the rifles of the last ten to thirty years.

Sorta up to the shooter, as always...

Art

Maaco · September 14, 2001, 05:26 PM

EL ROJO,

How do you like that scope? Worth it?

Key2America · September 16, 2001, 12:51 AM

Thanks Art. I may go with the Sendero in a .300 WinMag. Seems the best choice for me so far. I'm finding a WIDE variety of prices for the same rifle however. Leupold scopes are on my list. I have a couple choices for stocks so far. Company called Choate looks interesting.

September 8, 2001, 11:06 AM	#1
Key2America Member Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 29	One Shot, One Kill One Shot, One Kill. Exclude unattainable sniper guns that we, average people, can't obtain. The question: What rifle would you choose for a scenario where you have everything riding on your next shot. Either from your arsenal or "wish list." Include sights, scopes, etc. Picture a $50,000 bet or worse yet someone's life hanging in the balance on your shot. Push the limit on distance, too.... distance for you that is. A rifle that you can count on to put the bullet right in the center of the cross-hairs (or whatever).... any takers?

September 8, 2001, 12:02 PM	#2
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Unattainable sniper guns. Not so hard to purchase as one thinks. The Remington 700PSS has garnered a reputation as an excellent rifle that shoots sub-MOA, straight out of the box, sometimes found for less than $800.00. While it is somewhat limited in distribution, it can still be found available to the general population without problem. I have a 700PSS, it surprised the heck out of me for a production gun. Now, if you still want a 700PSS, or just want the accuracy of the 700PSS, but don't want to cough up that kind of money, it's a poorly-kept industry secret that the only thing special about the 700PSS is the H-S Precision PSS stock. In other words, if you go buy a Remington 700VLS, or VSS, (Varmint) you have the same barreled action as the 700PSS, no kidding! Remington will even confirm this, the 700PSS is built on the same assembly line, no Custom Shop tweaking like the Sendero. Availability of the 700 Varmint model is better, and you even have a wider choice of chamberings, to include the .260 Remington, which is no slouch in the accuracy and range department. Granted, they sell the 700PSS in .300 Win Mag and now .300 Remington Ultra Mag, which one can only wonder why, since law enforcement engagement distances seldom exceed 100 yards. The Savage 10FP is another tight shooter, again, with a reasonable price tag. There was also the Savage 112BVSS, with laminated stock, heavy stainless barrel, and a reasonable price. Of course, you can be a total goofball like me, and build your own on a wildcat chambering: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Fa...erdiction.html

September 8, 2001, 12:11 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,315	Remington, Ruger or Savage Remington Varminter. BTW, the Ruger police M77 is no different from their Target/Varminter either. Ruger uses a different color laminated stock (evil grey for police and good brown for us) and like the Remington, lacks an extra swivel stud for the bipod. Of course, those new Savages are up and coming and gaining a respectable following. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 8, 2001, 02:21 PM	#7
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Posts: 1,857	OK, the rifle I would choose for this would be out of my arsenal (though you excluded it in your first sentence, you allowed me to use it based on it being in my arsenal) Accuracy International, AWP, .308, topped with a Leupold Mark 4 M-1 (w/MilDot) firing Federal Match BTHP. It always puts the shot where it is suppose to go... that is IF I do my part. __________________ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) "Notoriety is fleeting, Anonymity is forever!"

September 8, 2001, 09:21 PM	#9
Legionnaire Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2000 Location: Central TX Posts: 1,503	Remintgon 700 VSSF in .308, Leupold VX-III 3.5-10X Long Range Tactical M1 with mil dot reticle in Badger Ordnance rings on a BO 20 MOA base. Have had the crown recut, bolt trued, and trigger set to 3# exactly. 1/2 MOA groups all day (literally) with Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr ammo. I'd be sure of first round hits out to 500 yards, and with a spotter using a good scope, 90% sure of first or second round hits out to 800. (Combo's supposed to be good out to 1000 plus . . . but haven't had opportunity to work at that distance.) __________________ Cogito, ergo armatus sum.

September 8, 2001, 12:35 PM	#4
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Another vote for the Savage 10 FP.

September 8, 2001, 01:05 PM	#5
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	I can't say enough about my Rem 700 VS with a H-S Precision PRT 25 Tactical stock, IOR 20MOA tapered base and 30mm rings, and Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT scope. This gun shoots very well. Sub MOA on a constant basis. It shoots much better than I do.

September 8, 2001, 01:22 PM	#6
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	When my friends and I get together for a lunch shoot, and the biggest 5 shot group is buying, I reach for a fairly bone stock M700 VS which I lightened the trigger pull on slightly with the twist of a set screw, removed a bit of material in the barrel channel for air circulation, and handloaded Nosler Ballistic Tips on Rem 308 cases. I have not had to buy lunch yet with this rifle, and while my more affluent friends buy scopes costing more than my rifle, I'm looking through an el-cheapo 6.5x20 50mm Simmons which is going for $100 give or take, and have used it for several years now with no regrets. A $15 adjustable nylon sling lets me carry it around. For a grand total of $600 for the setup, I am very pleased.

September 8, 2001, 04:25 PM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Ol' Pet. Been totin' that heavy SOB around for 30 years; we're sorta married up together. I can get 3-shot 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and have gotten 4-shot 4" groups at 500. Maybe I oughta name it "Ma Bell"? But it snap-shoots real good, too. It's a Weatherby Mark V, 26" .30-'06; scoped with a Simmons 44 Mag. Canjar trigger. About 9-1/2 pounds, fully dressed. , Art

September 8, 2001, 09:36 PM	#10
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Key2America, I would take any rifle or pistol that I was very farmiliar with and do what was needed at the appropriate range. Not from a wish list but one of the few I try to stay honed on. Shooting Many Firearms Is Really A Problem

September 10, 2001, 09:43 AM	#11
HokieShooter Member Join Date: February 13, 2001 Location: SW Virginia Posts: 51	PSG-1.

September 10, 2001, 02:20 PM	#12
M700 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2000 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 578	My M700P with Leupold 4.5-14x40 AO Tactical with Mildot. No problems so far. My best 5 shot group has been .6 MOA at 100 yards, and my cold barrel shot is always about 1/2 inch high dead center. I'd bet the farm on it. Last edited by M700; September 11, 2001 at 01:56 PM.

September 10, 2001, 02:41 PM	#13
Mithirium Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2001 Location: In the Foothills Posts: 345	700 Lightweight Tactical Rifle Remington 700 LTR 308win Leupold 3.5-10x Tactical Mildot scope. Its a great rifle, 20" fluted heavy barrel, pretty light when compared to PSS, thus you can pack it along for hunts and shoots sub MOA out of the box.

September 10, 2001, 03:48 PM	#14
scouter27 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 420	HokieShooter, please elaborate: Re: Why PSG1, not PSG-1 BTW. I would also choose the AWP. It is, IMO, the best precision platform out there.

September 10, 2001, 06:24 PM	#15
mussi Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2000 Location: Berne, Switzerland Posts: 757	I'll take a SIG 550 sniper and some good target ammo. The gun with good ammo shoots 0.3 MOA.

September 11, 2001, 12:14 PM	#16
Charmedlyfe Junior member Join Date: October 12, 2000 Location: SC Posts: 799	No question. The new FN tac rifle, and a Nightforce NXS. The FN is an impressive piece of equipment, and I would only use the best optics (not just the best-known). My NXS is the finest scope I've ever handled, and THAT is the most important part of the equation. The FN can shoot 1/2moa 5-shot groups all day long.

September 11, 2001, 12:38 PM	#17
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	I'd pull out my 700 VLS in .308 with the Leupold 8.5 x 25 on it. Total confidence in where the next bullet is going.

September 13, 2001, 11:07 AM	#18
Key2America Member Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 29	Clint I am sure leaning toward the Rem 700 VS .308 with Leupold.... may be my next purchase from all the good reviews I read. BTW my name is Clint (or Clinton) too....

September 13, 2001, 12:01 PM	#19
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	Hi Clinton. I love my VLS. I bought it Mother's Day weekend 2000 in order to show my respect to the million mom march. SWFA still has that scope on special I see. It's a discontinued model in the 1" tube anyway. I've floated the barrel and adjusted the trigger on this rifle and that's it. I bought a Score-High pillar bedding kit for it but haven't installed it yet. It shoots sub 1/2" groups now and I don't know if the kit will improve it or not.

September 13, 2001, 07:46 PM	#20
Mute Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: Diamond Bar, CA Posts: 852	An Accuracy International AWP would be my first choice, but given your criteria, I'd choose a Rem 700PSS. Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10X Long Range M1.

September 13, 2001, 09:06 PM	#21
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Key2America, I suppose that If I had to take a rifle from my small inventory I would use my home made M-21 with ART II optics. Fairly crude but I am very close to it. The rig and M118 Ball is very impressive. 650 yd head shots on geese are confirmed. Of course during season and with proper liscence and waterfowl stamps. They are pretty good eating as well. Why do you ask this question? If a person never spends the time and effort to first become a marksman and second to learn their gear it matters little on what they bring to "the firing line" If we were talking about a 100 yd shot with time to set up I would consider a Remington 40XBR in .223 to be perfect. I do not mean to offend you or start a discussion on goose hunting. I sure would like to have a 16 inch cannon from the Navy with a good sighting system

September 14, 2001, 01:00 AM	#22
Key2America Member Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 29	HankL, I am a Marine Sharpshooter, or was. I asked the question for purely selfish reasons. I used the question to do research to find myself a rifle that will do for me what I asked of you. Until lately, I hadn't shot any weapon since Viet Nam, I needed some insight into the latest weapons and such... thanks for your input.

September 14, 2001, 01:05 PM	#23
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Key2America: I think it's obvious from all the posts that most any rifle can be made to be very accurate. Almost any cartridge whose muzzle velocity is above some 2,600 or 2,700 ft/sec will play Ma Bell. There are many good scopes; any with at least 9X or 10X or more maximum magnification will let you see a target "way out there". Reliability of the package is almost a given, with the rifles of the last ten to thirty years. Sorta up to the shooter, as always... Art

September 14, 2001, 05:26 PM	#24
Maaco Junior Member Join Date: May 9, 2001 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 2	EL ROJO, How do you like that scope? Worth it?

September 16, 2001, 12:51 AM	#25
Key2America Member Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 29	Thanks Art. I may go with the Sendero in a .300 WinMag. Seems the best choice for me so far. I'm finding a WIDE variety of prices for the same rifle however. Leupold scopes are on my list. I have a couple choices for stocks so far. Company called Choate looks interesting.