Which 223 (or 556) should I get?

Northslope Nimrod · July 25, 2024, 01:30 PM

I have a few AR's. I would like a bolt action for taking coyotes, foxes, etc. I am looking at the Ruger Ranch Rifle in 556 which would allow for 556 and 223. I've looked at Savage Axis ii and Howa. Others? Essentially, I want:
1) Budget - The Ruger Ranch is the top end of my budget for this.
2) Lightweight and small - 6.5 lbs or less. Prefer shorter package.
3) Accepting AR mags is a bonus but not necessary.

So, what would be better than the Ruger Ranch? I've seen some argue that the Ruger 556 won't be as accurate with 223 but what are your thoughts? Is it that big of a deal? I like the idea of the two round capability just for prepping.

50 shooter · July 25, 2024, 02:50 PM

Have you looked at Thompson Center or Mossberg offerings?

DaleA · July 25, 2024, 02:52 PM

Are we talking about this gun? (Ruger American Ranch Rifle)

https://ruger.com/products/americanR...ets/26965.html

I've heard good things about CZ. Here's their 600 series in .223 for about $610 at Midway.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024754432?pid=193580

P.S. I DO like the Ruger a lot...just tossing out alternatives here.

totaldla · July 25, 2024, 05:53 PM

If you were going to get a 20+" barrel, which would allow you to take advantage of the extra velocity with heavy bullets - I could understand.

But I don't understand getting a 16" barrel bolt gun that weighs the same and costs more than a 16" AR15.

Northslope Nimrod · July 25, 2024, 10:46 PM

I did look at CVA but I think it was more $ than the Ruger. The Mossberg scout rifle is too heavy and also not cheaper than the Ruger.

The Ruger I am looking at is not the one posted above. I am looking at the Gen 2 models. That is the 1st gen.

You think the accuracy from a 16" bolt gun isn't any better than an AR? One issue with an AR of that price range is that I would have to get a trigger job. I can shoot all of my bolt actions much more accurately than my stock AR's. But I also struggled with this idea to begin with. I thought maybe just get a budget AR and get a nice trigger job.

georgehwbush · July 26, 2024, 12:05 AM

well if you hand load, you can make most things shoot well, but; i would reccomend the axis!

why? because imo it's the most bang for the buck, i have one in 223 and it shoots dimes at 100. (with my loads, quarters with factory loads) and personally i have never been a ruger american fan, i have one of those too and it doesn't shoot as well and was just rough in general. had to work on it before i was able to get it to feed and eject cleanly. no problem with the savage.

now that being said both are 6-8 years old, so that "might" have changed by now. or as the commerical puts it "your mileage may vary"

bamaranger · July 26, 2024, 03:13 AM

The Ruger Predator family has been on the market for some time now. I have not met anybody that has one that does not claim their rifle shoots lights out. I've not got one in .223/5.56mm, but my short .308 version thinks it's a match rifle!

The Predator may be a bit cheaper than the Ranch rifle. It offers a heavier barrel (not much) than the standard American. The Predator barrel is longer too, helping add velocity. If one just has too have hi-cap mags, Ruger offers a kit that will allow the Predator to take ACIS mags.

DISCLAIMER: Such a kit is available for my .308 rifle. Whether or not said kit will work in .223/.5.56 rifles & mags I am not certain.

totaldla · July 26, 2024, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northslope Nimrod

You think the accuracy from a 16" bolt gun isn't any better than an AR? One issue with an AR of that price range is that I would have to get a trigger job. I can shoot all of my bolt actions much more accurately than my stock AR's. But I also struggled with this idea to begin with. I thought maybe just get a budget AR and get a nice trigger job.

It's $100 and 15 minutes of work to put a very nice trigger in an AR. And regardless, you'll have to spend time finding the load that shoots bughole groups. The biggest downside to an AR is magazine length - you can't go much past 2.26" COL.
There has to be reasonable expectations regarding accuracy versus cost. Comparing a $500 AR to a $700-$1000 bolt gun isn't fair. It is pretty simple to put a $300 barrel on a $500 AR to get better accuracy. It is also simpler to just buy a $1k bolt gun to start with (Tikka).

taylorce1 · July 26, 2024, 09:26 AM

I'm not a fan of the AR magazine compatibility of the Ruger. I'd rather have the AI magazine compatibility in a bolt action rifle. If you reload having the extra 0.10"+ to seat bullets that the AI mag gives is huge.

That said that's my only complaint about the Ruger. I have a Gen 1 in .300 BLK, and it's been a great rifle even with a rotary mag. That rifle has been every bit as accurate as any Savage I've owned. I also own a Gen 1.5 Predator in 6mm Creedmoor, it uses the AI style mag and is showing a lot of potential as well.

I'd not buy the Howa Mini action, if you get a Howa get the 1500 short action. The shortcomings of the Mini action is the magazine again, where the 1500 gets you a little more room. However, I don't know the twist on the Howa barrel. If it's slower than 1:9 then there may be no advantage to a longer magazine.

Before buying a Savage Axis rifle, I'd buy the Savage 110 Hog Hunter. I get the Axis is cheaper, but the 110 is a better rifle. It will not be as light as the Ruger Scout, but it's only around $100 more than the Axis package rifles on gunbroker.com.

totaldla · July 26, 2024, 09:46 AM

One thing I forgot to mention: most bolt guns are chambered in 223 Remington, not 5.56x45 or 223 Wylde.

Pumpkin · July 26, 2024, 11:14 AM

My CZ 527’s are 556.

603Country · July 26, 2024, 06:56 PM

Can you still get a Browning Micro Midas in 223? Had a buddy with one, and it sure was pretty, and very accurate. Probably not cheap.

jmr40 · July 27, 2024, 11:03 AM

Quote:

One thing I forgot to mention: most bolt guns are chambered in 223 Remington, not 5.56x45

True, but... You're not going to get optimum accuracy with 5.56 ammo in either a bolt rifle or an AR.

And it won't hurt a thing to shoot cheap 5.56 through a 223 chambered bolt gun if you're just plinking.

georgehwbush · July 28, 2024, 12:21 PM

(One thing I forgot to mention: most bolt guns are chambered in 223 Remington, not 5.56x45 or 223 Wylde. ) ^

i might add also, that unless you plan on firing tracers i see no warning as per 556 in the 223 bolt action Depending on the free bore of course, you will probably never find a 223 chamber that has short enough freebore to jam the factory 556 into the lands unless it's a tracer and a short throat anyway.

however; as it's been pointed out already i "always give bad advice" and there are warnings on the inet about using 556 ammo in 223 guns, so never do it period.

Ricklin · July 28, 2024, 02:28 PM

And then there are those of us who simply dislike modern sporting rifles, 30 round mags, and all the tacti-cool crap that goes along with.
Please note, I fully support our right to have them, that does not make me like them any more or less.
I am starting to like the caliber, and enjoy that there is a wide variety of guns old and new chambered in .223, 5,56 or both.
The mall ninjas can have the tacti-cool crap, I'll enjoy a round that is cheap to shoot due to it's popularity world wide. Variety is the spice of life, the number of loadings in the caliber is substantial. I am also a big fan of small things going fast.

stinkeypete · July 28, 2024, 03:44 PM

I'd say get the CZ and handload for best accuracy.

snoeproe · July 28, 2024, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 603Country

Can you still get a Browning Micro Midas in 223? Had a buddy with one, and it sure was pretty, and very accurate. Probably not cheap.

Xbolt in 223. Or xbolt micro.

Shenna9220 · July 29, 2024, 01:47 PM

5 years ago I decided I wanted a .223 bolt gun for bench shooting. Went looking for a CZ but none could be had, not even from Gun Broker. Cabelas was having a fall sale which included a Savage 12v with a heavy barrel. Found that it shot 62 gn BTHP's great. I hunt a cattle ranch and guide turkey hunts there in the spring. After setting out hunters in the morning I would scout other parts of the ranch. Starting seeing a lot of pigs just at light. Found that setting the Savage on the Tonneau cover and shooting pigs out to 400 yds was more fun than bench. We now call the rifle "Miss Piggy".

NHSHOOTER · July 31, 2024, 01:35 AM

For what its worth I bought a Tikka T3 in 223, when they first came out, even before boyds was making a stock for them. That rifle has always shot bug holes(with home grown ammo), its light and has a adjustable trigger. Now has a boyds thumbhole stock.

1972RedNeck · July 31, 2024, 11:30 PM

Savage Axis 2 is hard to beat for a budget in my opinion.

That being said, somehow, someway that I can't describe, my dirt cheap AR15 upper kit from PSA is my most accurate .223 by far. Consistent beer bottle hits at 250 yards.

Next best is my Axis - but I can only get consistent 200 yard hits.

I'm not the best shot either.

baddarryl · August 15, 2024, 11:16 AM

I have a CZ 527 American in .223. It has a set trigger and I haven't really worked out handholds with it yet, but the potential is there. A fine beautiful rifle.

**44 AMP** · August 15, 2024, 01:43 PM

Quote:

I would like a bolt action for taking coyotes, foxes, etc.

Why can't you do that with any of the "several ARs" you have??

ciwsguy · August 27, 2024, 09:43 PM

I believe Smith & Wesson dropped the T/C line of rifles about 3 years ago. Market must be too dog-eat-dog competitive to make a profit. It's a shame because the T/C Compass I have in 5.56/223 will shoot 1/4 MOA with the right ammo. 22 inch barrels were the shortest you could get with T/C though.

**44 AMP** · August 28, 2024, 12:51 AM

Quote:

22 inch barrels were the shortest you could get with T/C though.

You make that sound like its a problem....why would it be?

Shadow9mm · August 28, 2024, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50 shooter

Have you looked at Thompson Center or Mossberg offerings?

Thought Thompson center was out of buisness. And i would not touch a patriot with a 10ft pole. Had one in 308, shot very poorly.

July 25, 2024, 01:30 PM	#1
Northslope Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2004 Posts: 467	Which 223 (or 556) should I get? I have a few AR's. I would like a bolt action for taking coyotes, foxes, etc. I am looking at the Ruger Ranch Rifle in 556 which would allow for 556 and 223. I've looked at Savage Axis ii and Howa. Others? Essentially, I want: 1) Budget - The Ruger Ranch is the top end of my budget for this. 2) Lightweight and small - 6.5 lbs or less. Prefer shorter package. 3) Accepting AR mags is a bonus but not necessary. So, what would be better than the Ruger Ranch? I've seen some argue that the Ruger 556 won't be as accurate with 223 but what are your thoughts? Is it that big of a deal? I like the idea of the two round capability just for prepping.

July 25, 2024, 02:50 PM	#2
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 1,026	Have you looked at Thompson Center or Mossberg offerings? __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

July 25, 2024, 05:53 PM	#4
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,499	If you were going to get a 20+" barrel, which would allow you to take advantage of the extra velocity with heavy bullets - I could understand. But I don't understand getting a 16" barrel bolt gun that weighs the same and costs more than a 16" AR15. __________________ Keltec P15 at 1200 rounds

July 26, 2024, 03:13 AM	#7
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,800	Ruger American Predatator The Ruger Predator family has been on the market for some time now. I have not met anybody that has one that does not claim their rifle shoots lights out. I've not got one in .223/5.56mm, but my short .308 version thinks it's a match rifle! The Predator may be a bit cheaper than the Ranch rifle. It offers a heavier barrel (not much) than the standard American. The Predator barrel is longer too, helping add velocity. If one just has too have hi-cap mags, Ruger offers a kit that will allow the Predator to take ACIS mags. DISCLAIMER: Such a kit is available for my .308 rifle. Whether or not said kit will work in .223/.5.56 rifles & mags I am not certain.

July 26, 2024, 09:26 AM	#9
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,498	I'm not a fan of the AR magazine compatibility of the Ruger. I'd rather have the AI magazine compatibility in a bolt action rifle. If you reload having the extra 0.10"+ to seat bullets that the AI mag gives is huge. That said that's my only complaint about the Ruger. I have a Gen 1 in .300 BLK, and it's been a great rifle even with a rotary mag. That rifle has been every bit as accurate as any Savage I've owned. I also own a Gen 1.5 Predator in 6mm Creedmoor, it uses the AI style mag and is showing a lot of potential as well. I'd not buy the Howa Mini action, if you get a Howa get the 1500 short action. The shortcomings of the Mini action is the magazine again, where the 1500 gets you a little more room. However, I don't know the twist on the Howa barrel. If it's slower than 1:9 then there may be no advantage to a longer magazine. Before buying a Savage Axis rifle, I'd buy the Savage 110 Hog Hunter. I get the Axis is cheaper, but the 110 is a better rifle. It will not be as light as the Ruger Scout, but it's only around $100 more than the Axis package rifles on gunbroker.com. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 25, 2024, 02:52 PM	#3
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,384	Are we talking about this gun? (Ruger American Ranch Rifle) https://ruger.com/products/americanR...ets/26965.html I've heard good things about CZ. Here's their 600 series in .223 for about $610 at Midway. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024754432?pid=193580 P.S. I DO like the Ruger a lot...just tossing out alternatives here.

July 25, 2024, 10:46 PM	#5
Northslope Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2004 Posts: 467	I did look at CVA but I think it was more $ than the Ruger. The Mossberg scout rifle is too heavy and also not cheaper than the Ruger. The Ruger I am looking at is not the one posted above. I am looking at the Gen 2 models. That is the 1st gen. You think the accuracy from a 16" bolt gun isn't any better than an AR? One issue with an AR of that price range is that I would have to get a trigger job. I can shoot all of my bolt actions much more accurately than my stock AR's. But I also struggled with this idea to begin with. I thought maybe just get a budget AR and get a nice trigger job.

July 26, 2024, 12:05 AM	#6
georgehwbush Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 554	well if you hand load, you can make most things shoot well, but; i would reccomend the axis! why? because imo it's the most bang for the buck, i have one in 223 and it shoots dimes at 100. (with my loads, quarters with factory loads) and personally i have never been a ruger american fan, i have one of those too and it doesn't shoot as well and was just rough in general. had to work on it before i was able to get it to feed and eject cleanly. no problem with the savage. now that being said both are 6-8 years old, so that "might" have changed by now. or as the commerical puts it "your mileage may vary"

July 26, 2024, 09:46 AM	#10
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,499	One thing I forgot to mention: most bolt guns are chambered in 223 Remington, not 5.56x45 or 223 Wylde. __________________ Keltec P15 at 1200 rounds

July 26, 2024, 11:14 AM	#11
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 995	My CZ 527’s are 556.

July 26, 2024, 06:56 PM	#12
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,039	Can you still get a Browning Micro Midas in 223? Had a buddy with one, and it sure was pretty, and very accurate. Probably not cheap.

July 28, 2024, 12:21 PM	#14
georgehwbush Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 554	(One thing I forgot to mention: most bolt guns are chambered in 223 Remington, not 5.56x45 or 223 Wylde. ) ^ i might add also, that unless you plan on firing tracers i see no warning as per 556 in the 223 bolt action Depending on the free bore of course, you will probably never find a 223 chamber that has short enough freebore to jam the factory 556 into the lands unless it's a tracer and a short throat anyway. however; as it's been pointed out already i "always give bad advice" and there are warnings on the inet about using 556 ammo in 223 guns, so never do it period.

July 28, 2024, 02:28 PM	#15
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,393	Dislike AR's And then there are those of us who simply dislike modern sporting rifles, 30 round mags, and all the tacti-cool crap that goes along with. Please note, I fully support our right to have them, that does not make me like them any more or less. I am starting to like the caliber, and enjoy that there is a wide variety of guns old and new chambered in .223, 5,56 or both. The mall ninjas can have the tacti-cool crap, I'll enjoy a round that is cheap to shoot due to it's popularity world wide. Variety is the spice of life, the number of loadings in the caliber is substantial. I am also a big fan of small things going fast. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

July 28, 2024, 03:44 PM	#16
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,344	I'd say get the CZ and handload for best accuracy. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

July 29, 2024, 01:47 PM	#18
Shenna9220 Member Join Date: January 31, 2016 Location: Zephyrhills,Fl Posts: 83	5 years ago I decided I wanted a .223 bolt gun for bench shooting. Went looking for a CZ but none could be had, not even from Gun Broker. Cabelas was having a fall sale which included a Savage 12v with a heavy barrel. Found that it shot 62 gn BTHP's great. I hunt a cattle ranch and guide turkey hunts there in the spring. After setting out hunters in the morning I would scout other parts of the ranch. Starting seeing a lot of pigs just at light. Found that setting the Savage on the Tonneau cover and shooting pigs out to 400 yds was more fun than bench. We now call the rifle "Miss Piggy".

July 31, 2024, 01:35 AM	#19
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,027	For what its worth I bought a Tikka T3 in 223, when they first came out, even before boyds was making a stock for them. That rifle has always shot bug holes(with home grown ammo), its light and has a adjustable trigger. Now has a boyds thumbhole stock.

July 31, 2024, 11:30 PM	#20
1972RedNeck Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2015 Posts: 380	Savage Axis 2 is hard to beat for a budget in my opinion. That being said, somehow, someway that I can't describe, my dirt cheap AR15 upper kit from PSA is my most accurate .223 by far. Consistent beer bottle hits at 250 yards. Next best is my Axis - but I can only get consistent 200 yard hits. I'm not the best shot either.

August 15, 2024, 11:16 AM	#21
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,700	I have a CZ 527 American in .223. It has a set trigger and I haven't really worked out handholds with it yet, but the potential is there. A fine beautiful rifle.

August 27, 2024, 09:43 PM	#23
ciwsguy Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Location: KY Posts: 309	Thompson Center not available right now I believe Smith & Wesson dropped the T/C line of rifles about 3 years ago. Market must be too dog-eat-dog competitive to make a profit. It's a shame because the T/C Compass I have in 5.56/223 will shoot 1/4 MOA with the right ammo. 22 inch barrels were the shortest you could get with T/C though.