9mm revolver

[Donald duck]

I firmly believe the 9mm revolver makes much more sense than the .38 special. Regardless of what some people may believe the 9mn is a more powerful round than the .38. It's cheaper to shoot and you have the option to use the moon clips.

[lee n. field]

you have the option to use the moon clips.

Is it an option, or close to a necessity, to use moon clips?

[Butzbach]

Originally Posted by lee n. field

Is it an option, or close to a necessity, to use moon clips?

Those moon clips can bend into uselessness at the worst possible times. Definitely not a necessity.

[Butzbach]

Originally Posted by Donald duck

I firmly believe the 9mm revolver makes much more sense than the .38 special. Regardless of what some people may believe the 9mn is a more powerful round than the .38. It's cheaper to shoot and you have the option to use the moon clips.

That’s why God invented the 357 magnum son.

[Jim Watson]

I handload them all, so factory ammo price is not a factor.

I looked for a 4" Ruger clip gun in the early days of IDPA SSR. Good thing I didn't find one, they changed the rules and obsoleted them, also the .38 Super and .40 S&W clip guns.

[wild cat mccane]

S&W 986 or 929? or a 10mm/40 S&W 610?


The 986 at least keeps the 7 chambers. The 610 goes to N frame and only has 6.

Normashooting has had $26 38special for a while. However, 357 has never been great for pricing through this all.

I too have been thinking this route. The only thing keeping me from a 986 and/or 610 is the point of a revolver of that size is range and fun. Is a 9mm or even 10mm as fun as 357? no.

At the cost of these, you do make up the price fast with 9mm. BUT you're into high quality autos at the 986/929/610.

[44 AMP]

I firmly believe the 9mm revolver makes much more sense than the .38 special.

Congratulations! You're in a very small minority!

Regardless of what some people may believe the 9mn is a more powerful round than the .38.

Only if you cherry pick what ammo you compare against each other.

It's cheaper to shoot and you have the option to use the moon clips.

Again, it depends on where you shop, and what you are buying, how much of a price difference you see, and how important that amount is, to you.

As to moon clips, you cannot use them at all in SA revolvers. You cannot use them in DA revolvers, UNLESS the gun is made or remade for that. Not all are/were. And the rimmed version of the 9mm Luger got pulled off the market pretty quick when someone found out it would fit in .38 S&W guns and had about double the allowable chamber pressure!

SO, while you may believe the 9mm Luger revolver makes more sense than the .38 Special, the rest of the world, including gun makers and the buying public, apparently, don't.

[SIGSHR]

Interesting about the 9MM Federal-to give it its correct name-being pulled because it could be confused with the 38 S&W.
A revolver using a rimless round is a fun thing, but not that practical IMHO. The Colt and S&W M1917s were wartime expedients-like the M1917 Rifle, the Israelis experimented with a 9MM revolver after Independence, decided a 9MM pistol was more practical, they adopted the Beretta.

[Bill DeShivs]

Because one cartridge is "more powerful" than another does not necessarily make it better.

.38 Special is a very good all-around cartridge-especially for a revolver. And, it is about the most powerful revolver cartridge that the average person can handle. Yeah- I know about all the macho guys who shoot .357 in their airweight revolvers.

9mm is fine cartridge also. It's practically the autopistol equivalent of the .38 Special. Using it in revolvers is always a compromise.

[Donald duck]

The vast majority of 9mm rounds you will find in the shelf of your local gunshop is more powerful than the vast majority of .38 special loads you will find at your local gunshop. A +p 9mm is close to the power of a .357 and a +p+ 9mm is close enough that there is no real world difference. And I don't see a compromise. A lot of us carry a 9mn auto of some sort as a primary carry gun. Makes sense to have a backup gun of the same caliber. Makes sense in many cases to have a two inch revolver as that backup gun.

[hammie]

For some revolvers, full moon clips ARE a necessity. My S&W 986 has no head spacing shoulder in the cylinder. The 986 is useless without clips.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Donald duck

A +p 9mm is close to the power of a .357 and a +p+ 9mm is close enough that there is no real world difference.

Whoa!

Even comparing the hottest loads, the 9mm is far short of a 357 Magnum.

9mm +P+
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=119
Buffalo Bore 124 +P+
➤ 1,304 fps -- Beretta 92F, 4.9-inch barrel
➤ 1,296 fps -- Glock 19, 4-inch barrel

357 Magnum
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=103
Buffalo Bore 125 JHP
4-inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps



I have a Ruger convertible Blackhawk 38/357 with a 9mm cylinder. The 9mm does not hold a candle to the 357 magnum. The 9mm is faster than 38 Special.

[rclark]

The .38 can also handle heavier bullets like 158gn, 180gn and such. Much more versatile than the 9mm. Speed, blast and noise isn't everything. Keep the rimless auto cartridges for semi-autos and rimmed cartridges for the revolvers. Simple. Then reload to whatever power you want out of your 38 Special or .357 within SAAMI specs and your golden.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by rclark

The .38 can also handle heavier bullets like 158gn, 180gn and such.

The 9mm can handle heavy bullets, too.
158-165 gr.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...-need-to-know/

And at least one company (Seismic) has loaded 185 grain bullets in the 9mm.

[JohnKSa]

If I were going to get into competing with a revolver, or started carrying one with a reload for self-defense I'd probably pick 9mm. The shorter tapered cases mean easier, more positive ejection with hot loads, and also make reloading faster.

One of the issues of loading the longer cartridges like the .38Sp or .357Mag using moonclips or speedloaders is getting them all aligned--with so much cartridge out in front of the rim and the speedloader/clip supporting the cases at the rim, they can wobble out of alignment more than a shorter case would.

I don't think 9mm competes well with the .357Mag in terms of either energy or momentum, but it does better than just hold its own against the .38Spl in apples-to-apples comparisons.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Congratulations! You're in a very small minority!

Only if you cherry pick what ammo you compare against each other.

Again, it depends on where you shop, and what you are buying, how much of a price difference you see, and how important that amount is, to you.

As to moon clips, you cannot use them at all in SA revolvers. You cannot use them in DA revolvers, UNLESS the gun is made or remade for that. Not all are/were. And the rimmed version of the 9mm Luger got pulled off the market pretty quick when someone found out it would fit in .38 S&W guns and had about double the allowable chamber pressure!

SO, while you may believe the 9mm Luger revolver makes more sense than the .38 Special, the rest of the world, including gun makers and the buying public, apparently, don't.

I may be in the minority, but I have my 9mm 642-1 on me almost all the time when I’m not working. Hell, have it on me right now.

For ammo, I was fortunate to be able to compare the same revolver in both calibers, as I have the original cylinder and the converted 9mm cylinder. Hornady CD 110 grain .38 +P was going the same speed out of it as Hornady XTP 147 grain 9mm (standard pressure). If I’m a betting man, I prefer heavier weight going the same speed. If you are carrying a gun… you are a betting man. If you have to use it, do you want the odds stacked on your side or against you?

For moon clips, not understanding the argument. If you have a 9mm revolver… most are cut from the factory for them. If you are converting… it usually is included in the service. Converting from .38 or .357… you’ll need moon clips for headspace. Can still shoot the original caliber, but will bulge the case/possibly stick. Not that big for me, but I know some people want that option.

Personally, I like 9mm in moon clips out of a .38/.357 length cylinder/ejector rod. Longer cases, more of a chance of them getting hung up on the grips/frame. Anyone with a J-frame likely dealt with it at least once… and is what it is. Even loaded 9mm in moon clips clear the cylinder on extraction. Empty casings… clean extraction.

But what it comes down to it, there are drawbacks in every decision made with firearms. Revolver verses autoloader. 9mm verses .40. .45 verses 10mm. 124 grain verses 147 grain. Colt verses S&W. The list goes on…

What are 9mm revolver drawbacks? Not as common, as they had bad press from way back when. The 940s were plagued with issues of sticky casings. The one 942 made got a bad review from Wiley Clapp… at a time where if a gun writer said something bad, people took it to heart. And then the few that like them, or swear by them… there are the countless arguments against them by people who never handled one (going to blow up the gun, recoil is too bad, etc).

It’s a automatic cartridge, and not being in a magazine can have issues (crimp jump). Solved pretty easily… buy ammo that has a good crimp. Hornady is good to go across the line. Shy of that, I know UMC bulk used to work well (at least held for four shots… fifth is that one going off), and it was identical POI as my carry load.

In the end, carry what you want. As long as it goes boom, you are confident with it, and it does what you need it to… zero reason for argument. Why someone chooses X is always a good discussion, and it gives a viewpoint that others can look at and decide if it works for them. My 9mm 642-1 isn’t for popularity or to make me look cool… it’s on my belt because it checks all the right boxes for me and that I trust it 100%.

[44 AMP]

Just had a friend check when he visited the local gunshop. Top loaded .38 Special and 9mm JHPs are $1 to $1.50 apiece, depending on brands.

Next point is, 9mm +P+....
You won't find any handgun rated by the manufacturer for that.

Simply because of that last "+". Because there is no upper limit to +p+. Anything and everything that exceeds SAAMI +p spec is considered by them t be +p+, whether is it 1psi over or 15,000psi over their spec.

If energy is your yardstick, then consider this, a 125gr bullet at 1300fps generates 469 ft/lbs of energy. The same weight bullet at 1600fps generates 711fps of energy.

I can see the appeal of a backup gun in the same cartridge as your primary carry gun, but really, how important do you think it is?

Also, do you think you'll be getting that +p+ performance from a snub nose revolver? You won't. You'll get more than standard level ammo, but WILL it be enough to be significant?

There have been a small amount of 9mm DA revolvers made for a few police depts where their rule was "backup gun must use main gun ammo" but they were only made in small numbers, and from what I hear, the police themselves discontinued their use.

There have been several attempts to market 9mm DA revolvers, despite how sensible the idea seems, every single one of them has been a commercial failure once the "new" factor wore off.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

There have been several attempts to market 9mm DA revolvers, despite how sensible the idea seems, every single one of them has been a commercial failure once the "new" factor wore off.

Does this include the Ruger LCR and SP101? And how about S&W 9mm wheelguns? Charter Arms still lists a 9mm wheelgun, too.

If they are failures, why are they still making them?

[stinkeypete]

K-38 Masterpiece.
(Drops the microphone.)

[105kw]

As far as I know, Smith is only making a 9 shot N frame in 9mm.
They discontinued the 940 due to lack of sales.
The S&W 547 9mm K frame was built for a French police contract, who defaulted on the contract. Smith ended up converting some to .357, due to lack of sales.
Yes Ruger is making 2 small Revolvers, and Charter is building another. But in recent years I haven't seen any at my LGS, or any other shop I've been too.
So to me a 9mm revolver is still very much a niche product. I am willing to admit they have some small advantages, but I am willing to bet most people think semi-auto for a small concealment gun.

[SIGSHR]

IIRC European 9MM was always loaded "hotter" to ensure proper functioning, especially in Lugers. +P ammunition-that's the modern version of the old 38-44/38 HiVel rounds. 9MM is usually faster than 38 Special due to lighter bullets-115gr/124gr vs. 158gr.
Again revolvers using rimless cartridges like semiauto so using rimmed rounds. Sounds like a fun thing but they never seem to sell. I have a Ruger Old Model Blackhawk in .357/9MM, the ejector rod makes removing fired cases easy.

[kenny53]

When I carry a revolver it's 357 magnum 158gr JSP. When I carry a pistol it's 9mm or 45ACP both calibers are HP. I have never seen the need to challenge the performance of any of them. But two world wars were lost by the kids shooting 9mm.

[TruthTellers]

Is 9mm better in that it's got equal or more power and the ammo is cheaper? Sure, but most of the 9mm's are built on bigger, heavier .357 frames and cost more. There are pros and cons to 9mm and .38 in revolvers, but with the popularity of 9mm today I predict within 10 years 9mm revolvers will outsell .38 revolvers.

I mean, when you go to buy ammo right now, what are you seeing is more available and at better prices? 9 or .38?

Of course I see some repeating the same misinformation about 9mm Federal being discontinued because it could fit in .38 S&W chambered revolvers and I don't believe that to be the only reason it got dropped because Charter Arms was pushing that 9mm Federal and made a revolver for it and a few years after had financial issues and went out of business.

It doesn't help when the one small gun manufacturer who makes a gun in 9mm Federal goes belly up, so I wouldn't say the concept of rimmed auto cartridge like 9mm and .45 ACP (remember .45 Auto Rim?) is unpopular today because 30 years ago the 9mm Federal didn't take off.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by 74A95

Whoa!

Even comparing the hottest loads, the 9mm is far short of a 357 Magnum.

9mm +P+
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=119
Buffalo Bore 124 +P+
➤ 1,304 fps -- Beretta 92F, 4.9-inch barrel
➤ 1,296 fps -- Glock 19, 4-inch barrel

357 Magnum
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=103
Buffalo Bore 125 JHP
4-inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps



I have a Ruger convertible Blackhawk 38/357 with a 9mm cylinder. The 9mm does not hold a candle to the 357 magnum. The 9mm is faster than 38 Special.

Didn't you here from Federal Premium that velocity and energy foot pounds are irrelevant when it comes to self defense? It's all about expansion and penetration.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by 105kw

As far as I know, Smith is only making a 9 shot N frame in 9mm.

9 shots? Really?

They make a 8-shot N-frame and a 7-shot L-frame.

You could have checked this at their website.