Doing my first AR build and have some questions.

Viper99 · August 24, 2022, 03:08 PM

Hello all,

After buying a Radical AR earlier on this year I decided to build a slightly better one instead. The following is what I am thinking / bought so far.

Aero Precision M4E1 complete lower
Aero Precision 5.56 carrier group
Aero Precision AR15/m4 charging handle
Aero Precision M4E1-T CU 14.5" upper.

** The upper can still be changed for something else but everything else is already paid for. *** Suggestions welcome on this.

My intention was to spend around $1500 complete with scope.

Question:

What is the preferred barrel length? / advantage of say a 12.5" vs a 14.5" or longer.

Recommendation on a $300 or so scope / red dot for it.
Intended use?, target, home defense, some hunting.

Would I have been better off with a LWRC M61C for around $1600 instead or even a Aero Precision Saint Victor?

Regards and Thank You in advance.

HiBC · August 24, 2022, 03:27 PM

If you buy a barrel at least 16 in long it will comply with Federal Firearms law,

Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony.

I'd suggest a 16 in bbl minimum.

Aero has been my go-to lately. Good stuff.

jmhyer · August 24, 2022, 03:34 PM

Take care that you don't take what is considered a rifle receiver/buttstock and add a barrel that's too short (i.e.- effectively ending up with a short-barreled rifle that would be considered an NFA firearm). I've never built an AR from the ground up, but I know that you have to be careful here.

EDIT: HiBC beat me to it.

Viper99 · August 24, 2022, 03:46 PM

""Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony.""

Kind of confused on this as the Radical that I bought earlier this year has a 14.5" barrel and I did not have to pay anything extra. Also, the only reason I was not able to bring everything home with me was that their system was down and they couldn't register the lower.

kymasabe · August 24, 2022, 04:52 PM

Anything less than 16 inches is considered a short barreled rifle, and if caught with it, without the proper tax stamp, is a felony. One way around is to mount a pistol brace on it and the Feds will (for now) consider it a pistol.
Option #2...you can permanently mount (pin and weld) a muzzle device on the barrel that'll extend it to a legal 16 inch length, then you can legally run it as a rifle without having to register it as a short barreled rifle.

44caliberkid · August 24, 2022, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper99

""Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony.""

Kind of confused on this as the Radical that I bought earlier this year has a 14.5" barrel and I did not have to pay anything extra. Also, the only reason I was not able to bring everything home with me was that their system was down and they couldn't register the lower.

Was the lower considered a pistol or rifle lower? Did the 14.5 inch upper have a pinned and welded muzzle device that makes the overall length more than 16 inches?
The registration and tax fee for an SBR is on you, not the manufacturer or dealer who sold it. You need to submit the paperwork and fee separately.

sevt_chevelle · August 24, 2022, 05:08 PM

For 1500 bucks you can build something better than Aero.

rickyrick · August 24, 2022, 07:54 PM

I’d say use your receivers and BCG(or carrier) save some bucks.
Get a good trigger, barrel and potentially a bolt head. Decent free float hand guards aren’t bank breaking.
Then you’ll have lots of dough for a
Scope.

HiBC · August 24, 2022, 09:39 PM

Quote:

""Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony.""

Kind of confused on this as the Radical that I bought earlier this year has a 14.5" barrel and I did not have to pay anything extra. Also, the only reason I was not able to bring everything home with me was that their system was down and they couldn't register the lower.

I have not bought an assembled AR since the 1970's I have no clue what a "Radical" is. I don't follow the ads.

You may have leaked through the "system down" thing. I have no clue.
I have kept my life simpler by avoiding NFA weapons. I'm not an NFA expert.

Its possible to have a legal "AR Pistol" with a barrel less than 16 inches but you need to do your own research to discover how murky and ill defined "legal" is. Youtube will give you an idea but do not trust youtube to keep you out of jail.

If its got a 16 in barrel and no other problems,you will probably have a legal AR 15 rifle.

An AR-15 with a barrel less than 16 inches would be what the BATF Feds call a "SBR" or short barreled rifle. Those have been illegal since about 1934.
Unless you register it with the Feds and pay a $200 tax,its a felony to possess it.

Once again,I'm not a NFA expert. I'm not interested in arguing.

You asked,I answered. Build an untaxed/unregistered 14 inch barrel AR and have contact with Law Enforcement you will likely be charged with a felony.

Pin on a 16 in barreled AR upper from Aero and you are good.

**44 AMP** · August 25, 2022, 02:59 PM

In (relatively) simple terms, if the "permanent" barrel is 16" or longer it can have a stock and be a rifle.

If it is less than that, it is either an SBR (short barrel rifle) and an NFA registered item, OR it is a pistol. A pistol cannot have a stock without becoming an NFA item (certain exceptions apply) but it can have a "brace" (currently)

arguments over brace vs stock are still ongoing, and the matter is subject to change when the govt decides to issue new rules or pass another law.

Personally, since I'm past the age of playing run dodge & jump shooting games, not a cop or combat infantryman, and don't need to climb in and out of vehicles with a rifle in my hands, I don't see the point to really short barrels.

They may be handy but you are giving up some of the power of the cartridge, and the usual AR rounds don't have a lot to spare, IMO...

rickyrick · August 25, 2022, 03:13 PM

I like 300AAC in an AR pistol. It tames the obnoxious nature of rifle cartridges in a short barrel.
It was handy to have around when camping, but alas, Bigfoot never attacked my camp, so it’s just for fun now.

Shadow9mm · August 25, 2022, 03:47 PM

I would do a 16in barrel

not to beat a dead horse. If it has a rifle stock, not a brace, and a barrel less than 16in, it is a short barrel rifle, sublect to nfa restrictions. If you dont have the proper paperwork and tax stamp its a felony, and 5 years in federal prison. Do be careful.

Nathan · August 26, 2022, 06:51 AM

Quote:

If you buy a barrel at least 16 in long it will comply with Federal Firearms law,

He said AR. He never said rifle. He is confusing me a bit since posted in the rifle forum. A receiver or receiver set is properly transferred as an other. Then the builder must build it into a pistol or rifle.

BTW, the Radical is most likely pinned and welded.

Frankly, I would suggest you decide what you want it to do or be…..do you want a super short pistol/truck gun or a 20” precision rifle.

All that said, I believe the M4E1 to be the nicest receiver set on the market by far.

Shadow9mm · August 26, 2022, 09:05 AM

OP stated "target, home defense, some hunting" so imho no need for a shorty unless the OP really just wants one.

August 24, 2022, 03:08 PM	#1
Viper99 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Location: CT Posts: 846	Doing my first AR build and have some questions. Hello all, After buying a Radical AR earlier on this year I decided to build a slightly better one instead. The following is what I am thinking / bought so far. Aero Precision M4E1 complete lower Aero Precision 5.56 carrier group Aero Precision AR15/m4 charging handle Aero Precision M4E1-T CU 14.5" upper. The upper can still be changed for something else but everything else is already paid for. * Suggestions welcome on this. My intention was to spend around $1500 complete with scope. Question: What is the preferred barrel length? / advantage of say a 12.5" vs a 14.5" or longer. Recommendation on a $300 or so scope / red dot for it. Intended use?, target, home defense, some hunting. Would I have been better off with a LWRC M61C for around $1600 instead or even a Aero Precision Saint Victor? Regards and Thank You in advance.

August 24, 2022, 04:52 PM	#5
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,748	Anything less than 16 inches is considered a short barreled rifle, and if caught with it, without the proper tax stamp, is a felony. One way around is to mount a pistol brace on it and the Feds will (for now) consider it a pistol. Option #2...you can permanently mount (pin and weld) a muzzle device on the barrel that'll extend it to a legal 16 inch length, then you can legally run it as a rifle without having to register it as a short barreled rifle. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

August 24, 2022, 07:54 PM	#8
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,387	I’d say use your receivers and BCG(or carrier) save some bucks. Get a good trigger, barrel and potentially a bolt head. Decent free float hand guards aren’t bank breaking. Then you’ll have lots of dough for a Scope. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

August 25, 2022, 02:59 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,492	In (relatively) simple terms, if the "permanent" barrel is 16" or longer it can have a stock and be a rifle. If it is less than that, it is either an SBR (short barrel rifle) and an NFA registered item, OR it is a pistol. A pistol cannot have a stock without becoming an NFA item (certain exceptions apply) but it can have a "brace" (currently) arguments over brace vs stock are still ongoing, and the matter is subject to change when the govt decides to issue new rules or pass another law. Personally, since I'm past the age of playing run dodge & jump shooting games, not a cop or combat infantryman, and don't need to climb in and out of vehicles with a rifle in my hands, I don't see the point to really short barrels. They may be handy but you are giving up some of the power of the cartridge, and the usual AR rounds don't have a lot to spare, IMO... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 25, 2022, 03:13 PM	#11
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,387	I like 300AAC in an AR pistol. It tames the obnoxious nature of rifle cartridges in a short barrel. It was handy to have around when camping, but alas, Bigfoot never attacked my camp, so it’s just for fun now. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

August 24, 2022, 03:27 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	If you buy a barrel at least 16 in long it will comply with Federal Firearms law, Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony. I'd suggest a 16 in bbl minimum. Aero has been my go-to lately. Good stuff.

August 24, 2022, 03:34 PM	#3
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 917	Take care that you don't take what is considered a rifle receiver/buttstock and add a barrel that's too short (i.e.- effectively ending up with a short-barreled rifle that would be considered an NFA firearm). I've never built an AR from the ground up, but I know that you have to be careful here. EDIT: HiBC beat me to it.

August 24, 2022, 03:46 PM	#4
Viper99 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Location: CT Posts: 846	""Less than 16 in you have paperwork to fill out,a $200 tax stanp to pay and time to wait. Or you are looking at a felony."" Kind of confused on this as the Radical that I bought earlier this year has a 14.5" barrel and I did not have to pay anything extra. Also, the only reason I was not able to bring everything home with me was that their system was down and they couldn't register the lower.

August 24, 2022, 05:08 PM	#7
sevt_chevelle Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Posts: 327	For 1500 bucks you can build something better than Aero.

August 25, 2022, 03:47 PM	#12
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 4,603	I would do a 16in barrel not to beat a dead horse. If it has a rifle stock, not a brace, and a barrel less than 16in, it is a short barrel rifle, sublect to nfa restrictions. If you dont have the proper paperwork and tax stamp its a felony, and 5 years in federal prison. Do be careful. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

August 26, 2022, 09:05 AM	#14
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 4,603	OP stated "target, home defense, some hunting" so imho no need for a shorty unless the OP really just wants one. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.