Moving sight on 1911 Government with fixed sights.

Lavan · July 16, 2021, 07:00 PM

Is it as hard as it seems?
I whacked the hell out of it with a hammer and brass rod and nothing moved.
I whacked it HARD.

Dfariswheel · July 16, 2021, 08:08 PM

The trick is to remove the slide from the frame and put it on a FIRM surface so it doesn't bounce or move and dissipate the force.
I have put a magazine or sheets of newspaper as a pad on a concrete floor for stubborn sights or pins.

Second, use a BIG brass drift. I made mine from 1"x 1/2"x 6" brass bar stock.
A drift that size won't flex or bend and spread the impact force.
It helps if you have someone to help hold the slide steady so it doesn't move or try to roll over when struck.

Years ago someone sold an impact drift with a nice design, so I made my own.
Buy a cheap automatic center punch from a hardware store.
Stone the tip flat and braze a glob of brass to the tip.

Put the point on the sight and press until the automatic punch "fires".
The impact will move the sight.

**44 AMP** · July 16, 2021, 10:01 PM

along with ensuring there is go "give" consider a drop or two of a good penetrating oil, the day before. And, check to make sure the sight isn't staked in place. It shouldn't be, but one never knows....

Lavan · July 16, 2021, 11:29 PM

Looked at prices of sight movers.
Yow!

But if a gunsmith has one, it seems it should be a fairly quick procedure.

**4V50 Gary** · July 17, 2021, 07:30 AM

Is the slide clamped in a vise?

Lavan · July 17, 2021, 08:48 AM

Held flat on the carpeted concrete shooting bench.
Slide didn't move.
Neither did the sight.

AzShooter · July 17, 2021, 08:54 AM

When the wrench don't fit get a bigger hammer. I've done it many times and you need a good hammer and brass punch to move it. They also make delron rods to use instead of brass so that you don't mar the sight.

**4V50 Gary** · July 17, 2021, 11:17 AM

The bench absorbs some of the impact. Put it in a vise (use pine for top where receiver is rounded and bottom (make sure clamp is on both rails on bottom of frame).

HiBC · July 17, 2021, 11:24 AM

Front or rear sight? Its not unusual for a dovetail front sight to be pinned.

Padding like carpet is not your friend. A good solid vise is an important tool for gunsmith work. The vise needs to have smooth jaws. You can do pretty well with a couple of pieces of aluminum angle set over the jaws as covers.

Put some painters blue tape on the sides of the slide.Position the slide so the sight just barely sticks up above the vise jaws. You might be able to position the slide so your punch can rest on the top of the vise jaw.

Be very aware the slide is not solid. The inside is unsupported. You certainly can crush the slide with the vise.Its unnecessary to clamp hard.

You want to use the back solid jaw of the vise as your anvil. The moving jaw just holds the slide against the back jaw. There is no need for a lot of crush.

You just need the slide against a dead solid anvil.

A lighter weight,higher speed "whacking" well serve more to batter or peen the sight rather than move it. A slower,heavier hammer works better for drifting.
I generally prefer a brass punch,a rectangular bar is best,And I dress the end clean and square.

Before you start,its good to know how far you want to move the sight.

I figure my range to the target in terms of the sight radius, If the range to the target is 100 sight radii,the movement of the sight will be multiplied 100 times on the target.
With a depth mic or calipers you can measure the change.

**4V50 Gary** · July 17, 2021, 11:53 AM

That's why I recommended clamp the slide so that flat side is horizontal and not vertical. Had a classmate who clamped a slide (non-1911) with flat sides vertically in the vise and afterward would not slide onto the frame. Oppski. He fixed it (after the instructor made some suggestions to him).

Got a friend with a milling machine/drill press? I'd grind a piece of brass to match the contour of the sight. Put the brass in the quill/chuck and mount the slide in a vise (that is clamped down) and lower the quill (or chuck) and press the sight down. I'd also use a dial indicator to tell you how much it moved.

HiBC · July 17, 2021, 12:04 PM

We are on the same page,Gary. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The point is not crushing the slide. I doubt our OP has a set of adjustable parallels.

I have some I use for supports,and I typically use the Kurt Angle Loc vise on the mill. Solid! But a very light touch on the vise.

Lavan · July 17, 2021, 01:20 PM

No adjustable parallels here, boss.

Next step is turning a brass rod down to 22 caliber and stuffing it down a 22 barrel and BLASTING the dang sight.

Scorch · July 17, 2021, 04:08 PM

It's actually easier than you are making it. As others have said, clamp it in a solid SMOOTH JAWED vise, put a brass punch on the sight, and hit it with a hammer (16 oz is ideal). If it doesn't move, use heat on the slide. Never had a 1911 sight not come out. I have had to use a steel punch, but they all move sooner or later.

**44 AMP** · July 17, 2021, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Held flat on the carpeted concrete shooting bench.
Slide didn't move.

Yes, it did move. You just couldn't tell.

Any kind of padding or cushion has give and absorbs part of the energy of the blow. The slide doesn't seem to move to our eyes or in our hands, but it does, enough to lessen the force delivered.

Even "hard" wood does this, and surprisingly, so does concrete to a small degree. Not something we can really sense, but you can tell it happens by the difference in the effect.

Lavan · July 18, 2021, 08:49 AM

VIRTUAL sight adjustment, eh?

Sarge · July 18, 2021, 09:25 AM

I use an old 6" drill press vise, a short-handled 8 oz hammer and a piece of hexagonal aluminum stock for a drift. For vise jaw padding, I close the vise snug on a folded section of Coke carton and trim to fit. Haven't lost a battle with a dovetailed sight yet; though I have bolted the vise down to a steel table and used a little bigger hammer on occasion. The worst was a Citadel slide with their Novak knock-offs ceracoated in.

The importance of absolutely securing the slide cannot be overstated.

Lavan · July 31, 2021, 11:23 PM

Used a BEAD BREAKING SLEDGE today.
It moved.

Dfariswheel · August 1, 2021, 04:12 PM

There's an old mechanics saying.....
"Don't force it, use a bigger hammer".

**44 AMP** · August 2, 2021, 01:59 AM

Field mechanic's motto,
if it doesn't work get a hammer
if that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer
if if breaks, (expletive intentionally omitted) it was defective and needed to be replaced anyway...

**4V50 Gary** · August 2, 2021, 05:29 PM

44AMP - your last line is what one instructor told me at TSJC.

**44 AMP** · August 2, 2021, 07:40 PM

In that regard, clearly you had a good instructor!

Lavan · August 4, 2021, 11:58 AM

Now that it's all whacked into place and range tested for zero, I looked at my other guns.
The ones with adjustable sights are adjusted to the right.
ALL of em.

I guess it's just me. I have no trouble hitting anything.

But.... the sight has to be over on the right side.

July 16, 2021, 07:00 PM	#1
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	Moving sight on 1911 Government with fixed sights. Is it as hard as it seems? I whacked the hell out of it with a hammer and brass rod and nothing moved. I whacked it HARD.

July 16, 2021, 10:01 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,440	along with ensuring there is go "give" consider a drop or two of a good penetrating oil, the day before. And, check to make sure the sight isn't staked in place. It shouldn't be, but one never knows.... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 17, 2021, 07:30 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,289	Is the slide clamped in a vise? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 17, 2021, 11:17 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,289	The bench absorbs some of the impact. Put it in a vise (use pine for top where receiver is rounded and bottom (make sure clamp is on both rails on bottom of frame). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 17, 2021, 11:53 AM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,289	That's why I recommended clamp the slide so that flat side is horizontal and not vertical. Had a classmate who clamped a slide (non-1911) with flat sides vertically in the vise and afterward would not slide onto the frame. Oppski. He fixed it (after the instructor made some suggestions to him). Got a friend with a milling machine/drill press? I'd grind a piece of brass to match the contour of the sight. Put the brass in the quill/chuck and mount the slide in a vise (that is clamped down) and lower the quill (or chuck) and press the sight down. I'd also use a dial indicator to tell you how much it moved. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 16, 2021, 08:08 PM	#2
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,555	The trick is to remove the slide from the frame and put it on a FIRM surface so it doesn't bounce or move and dissipate the force. I have put a magazine or sheets of newspaper as a pad on a concrete floor for stubborn sights or pins. Second, use a BIG brass drift. I made mine from 1"x 1/2"x 6" brass bar stock. A drift that size won't flex or bend and spread the impact force. It helps if you have someone to help hold the slide steady so it doesn't move or try to roll over when struck. Years ago someone sold an impact drift with a nice design, so I made my own. Buy a cheap automatic center punch from a hardware store. Stone the tip flat and braze a glob of brass to the tip. Put the point on the sight and press until the automatic punch "fires". The impact will move the sight.

July 16, 2021, 11:29 PM	#4
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	Looked at prices of sight movers. Yow! But if a gunsmith has one, it seems it should be a fairly quick procedure.

July 17, 2021, 08:48 AM	#6
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	Held flat on the carpeted concrete shooting bench. Slide didn't move. Neither did the sight.

July 17, 2021, 08:54 AM	#7
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	When the wrench don't fit get a bigger hammer. I've done it many times and you need a good hammer and brass punch to move it. They also make delron rods to use instead of brass so that you don't mar the sight.

July 17, 2021, 11:24 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	Front or rear sight? Its not unusual for a dovetail front sight to be pinned. Padding like carpet is not your friend. A good solid vise is an important tool for gunsmith work. The vise needs to have smooth jaws. You can do pretty well with a couple of pieces of aluminum angle set over the jaws as covers. Put some painters blue tape on the sides of the slide.Position the slide so the sight just barely sticks up above the vise jaws. You might be able to position the slide so your punch can rest on the top of the vise jaw. Be very aware the slide is not solid. The inside is unsupported. You certainly can crush the slide with the vise.Its unnecessary to clamp hard. You want to use the back solid jaw of the vise as your anvil. The moving jaw just holds the slide against the back jaw. There is no need for a lot of crush. You just need the slide against a dead solid anvil. A lighter weight,higher speed "whacking" well serve more to batter or peen the sight rather than move it. A slower,heavier hammer works better for drifting. I generally prefer a brass punch,a rectangular bar is best,And I dress the end clean and square. Before you start,its good to know how far you want to move the sight. I figure my range to the target in terms of the sight radius, If the range to the target is 100 sight radii,the movement of the sight will be multiplied 100 times on the target. With a depth mic or calipers you can measure the change.

July 17, 2021, 12:04 PM	#11
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	We are on the same page,Gary. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The point is not crushing the slide. I doubt our OP has a set of adjustable parallels. I have some I use for supports,and I typically use the Kurt Angle Loc vise on the mill. Solid! But a very light touch on the vise.

July 17, 2021, 01:20 PM	#12
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	No adjustable parallels here, boss. Next step is turning a brass rod down to 22 caliber and stuffing it down a 22 barrel and BLASTING the dang sight.

July 17, 2021, 04:08 PM	#13
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	It's actually easier than you are making it. As others have said, clamp it in a solid SMOOTH JAWED vise, put a brass punch on the sight, and hit it with a hammer (16 oz is ideal). If it doesn't move, use heat on the slide. Never had a 1911 sight not come out. I have had to use a steel punch, but they all move sooner or later. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 18, 2021, 08:49 AM	#15
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	VIRTUAL sight adjustment, eh?

July 18, 2021, 09:25 AM	#16
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,494	I use an old 6" drill press vise, a short-handled 8 oz hammer and a piece of hexagonal aluminum stock for a drift. For vise jaw padding, I close the vise snug on a folded section of Coke carton and trim to fit. Haven't lost a battle with a dovetailed sight yet; though I have bolted the vise down to a steel table and used a little bigger hammer on occasion. The worst was a Citadel slide with their Novak knock-offs ceracoated in. The importance of absolutely securing the slide cannot be overstated. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

July 31, 2021, 11:23 PM	#17
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	Used a BEAD BREAKING SLEDGE today. It moved.

August 1, 2021, 04:12 PM	#18
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,555	There's an old mechanics saying..... "Don't force it, use a bigger hammer".

August 2, 2021, 01:59 AM	#19
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,440	Field mechanic's motto, if it doesn't work get a hammer if that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer if if breaks, (expletive intentionally omitted) it was defective and needed to be replaced anyway... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 2, 2021, 05:29 PM	#20
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,289	44AMP - your last line is what one instructor told me at TSJC. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 2, 2021, 07:40 PM	#21
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,440	In that regard, clearly you had a good instructor! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 4, 2021, 11:58 AM	#22
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,740	Now that it's all whacked into place and range tested for zero, I looked at my other guns. The ones with adjustable sights are adjusted to the right. ALL of em. I guess it's just me. I have no trouble hitting anything. But.... the sight has to be over on the right side.