250-3000 effectiveness. Your experience?

ligonierbill · July 13, 2022, 06:42 AM

This round came out in the Savage 99 in 1915, famously sending a 87 gr. bullet at 3,000 fps. Of course its developer, Charles Newton favored 100 gr at 2,800. He was right, but those old 99s had a twist rate reportedly too slow for the bigger bullets. I've not tested an old Savage. The many that continue on the rack at deer camp are all .300 Savage. I do have a Savage 20 that I have reported on. It will not shoot 100's accurately, but I finally got the old Lyman 54 dialed in for 87's. Put 5 rounds into the 6" bull of an NRA military target at 100 last Monday. It will probably do better for young eyes. Shooting Speer Hot Core and Sierra Varminter.

Back to the question. Do you, your grandfather, or others you know have real world experience shooting deer with the 87/3,000 load?

603Country · July 13, 2022, 10:41 AM

No personal experience. However, the 250 Savage has more downrange grunt than the recently beloved 6.5 Grendel, in which I shoot the 95 gr Vmax at about 2600 fps, so it should be fine on deer.

reynolds357 · July 13, 2022, 02:34 PM

No experience with that load. I have killed numerous deer with a 257 Wby using 90 grain bonded. I have shot numerous ones in the 350 to 450 yd range. They vary from piling up like a ton of bricks to running 20 or so yards. Never lost one. I am guessing you would get similar results from the 250 Savage point blank to 200. I would definitely use a bonded bullet. I assume someone still makes them. I am still loading Norma's I bought 20 years ago.

paknheat · July 13, 2022, 04:01 PM

A few years back I had the opportunity to use a friend’s 99 for a hunt.

It was marked 250-3000 on the barrel, very nice rifle. I did take one whitetail and one hog with it on this trip.

I did a handload for this rifle but I’d have to look it up. I have an old Jap Arisaka that I would love to have re barreled to the .250 cartridge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Scorch · July 13, 2022, 07:25 PM

I own 2 of them, both Savage 99s. My father fed his growing family of 4 fairly well using one of those rifles. Its light recoil and good accuracy is legendary, and a good bullet at 2800-3000 fps is nothing to sneeze at on the receiving end. I never knew him to lose a deer he shot. Better bullets and powders nowadays will only improve its performance. Just remember it's not a long-range number and you'll do fine.

std7mag · July 13, 2022, 09:11 PM

I got a 24" barrel in 250 Savage from E.R. Shaw for a small shank Savage.
Put it on my Stevens 200 when the 7mm-08AI barrel was done.
Barrel is a 1:10 twist.

I haven't tried the 87gr bullets in it.
The 75gr Sierra HP Varmint over Varmint powder are amazingly accurate at about 3,150fps.
While not as fast the Sierra 90gr BlitzKings do well also.
Both loads are coyote getters!

I shot 2 deer last season with the 100gr Ballistic Tip over RL17.

Shot thrown off by branch i didn't see. Buck was 30-35 yards broadside, stopped.
After he touched his nose with his butt, he took off!!!
Didn't find him that day.
Friends mom found him under her tree stand the next morning.
Bullet hit high & back. Bullet hole was oblong, having tumbled after hitting the branch. Bullet didn't exit.

Second was a doe about 50 yards away, broadside.
Good hit. She made a couple circles about 20 yards in diameter & fell over dead.
Both lungs & heart damaged. Bullet didn't exit.

I've since gotten another barrel in 7mm-08, that i reamed to AI & put on the Stevens.
Put the 250 barrel on a Savage Axis II that was originally a 22-250.

I got a 26" Shilen heavy varmint barrel in 250 Savage for a small shank Savage. I was/am planning on using it for short range (under 400 yards) benchrest matches.
I either need to get a stock & finish the build, or sell the barrel.

ligonierbill · July 14, 2022, 08:06 AM

Thank you for your responses. I revisited my bullet search, and I think I'm stuck with the 87 gr pills I have. As noted, keep the range in reason and pick your shot, good advice with a quarter bore or a 338.

Norma no longer includes any .257 bullet on their website. And only Sierra and Speer list an 87. Most are 75 and lighter varmint bullets or 100+ big game rounds (or long copper). But both companies list "medium game" as an application, despite Sierra's "Varminter" designation. There is a plethora of .223, 6 mm, and 6.5 mm bullets, far fewer .257. Just not stylish anymore, but then, neither am I.

Jim Watson · July 14, 2022, 10:44 AM

Yeah, too bad the Army did not "invent" 6.35mm instead of 6.8mm.

bamaranger · July 14, 2022, 01:52 PM

There is a classic, vintage deer hunting book titled "Shots at Whitetails" written by a gent called Larry Kohler. Kohler hunted the Catskills and his book was written in '48, was considered a gospel by many in the 50's and early 60's.

Kohler's favorite rifle was a 250-3000 bolt rifle a Savage 20 (?) I think, which had been lightly customized with a full length Mannlicher style stock, peep sight and perhaps the barrel had been shortened. Kohler apparently received some grief from folks regards his choice of caliber (this was in the .35 Rem, 30-30, 44-40 era) but he had high praise for his little rifle. I cannot advise what bullet weight he used.

ligonierbill · July 14, 2022, 03:20 PM

I'm a sucker for old books. Just ordered that one on Amazon. A little pricey, but life is short.

ligonierbill · July 19, 2022, 12:32 PM

Larry Koller did indeed use a Savage 20 in 250-3000, but he favored 100 gr bullets. In fact, he mentions a 1:10 barrel and 117s as a good combination. My book is a 1970 reprint with an Introduction by Jack O'Connor. Penciled note in the front indicates someone bought it then for $4.89. It's out of print now, but I found a good copy offered on Amazon---at a considerably higher price.

reynolds357 · July 19, 2022, 09:15 PM

I believe the 87 Speer Hot Cor would be my choice. It is semi bonded. It is beloved in the 250-3000.

Jim Watson · July 19, 2022, 09:25 PM

There are .25 wildcats on .222, .223, and 6.8 brass, so you can even have an AR that shoots like a Savage.

July 13, 2022, 06:42 AM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,648	250-3000 effectiveness. Your experience? This round came out in the Savage 99 in 1915, famously sending a 87 gr. bullet at 3,000 fps. Of course its developer, Charles Newton favored 100 gr at 2,800. He was right, but those old 99s had a twist rate reportedly too slow for the bigger bullets. I've not tested an old Savage. The many that continue on the rack at deer camp are all .300 Savage. I do have a Savage 20 that I have reported on. It will not shoot 100's accurately, but I finally got the old Lyman 54 dialed in for 87's. Put 5 rounds into the 6" bull of an NRA military target at 100 last Monday. It will probably do better for young eyes. Shooting Speer Hot Core and Sierra Varminter. Back to the question. Do you, your grandfather, or others you know have real world experience shooting deer with the 87/3,000 load?

July 13, 2022, 07:25 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	I own 2 of them, both Savage 99s. My father fed his growing family of 4 fairly well using one of those rifles. Its light recoil and good accuracy is legendary, and a good bullet at 2800-3000 fps is nothing to sneeze at on the receiving end. I never knew him to lose a deer he shot. Better bullets and powders nowadays will only improve its performance. Just remember it's not a long-range number and you'll do fine. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 13, 2022, 09:11 PM	#6
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,611	I got a 24" barrel in 250 Savage from E.R. Shaw for a small shank Savage. Put it on my Stevens 200 when the 7mm-08AI barrel was done. Barrel is a 1:10 twist. I haven't tried the 87gr bullets in it. The 75gr Sierra HP Varmint over Varmint powder are amazingly accurate at about 3,150fps. While not as fast the Sierra 90gr BlitzKings do well also. Both loads are coyote getters! I shot 2 deer last season with the 100gr Ballistic Tip over RL17. Shot thrown off by branch i didn't see. Buck was 30-35 yards broadside, stopped. After he touched his nose with his butt, he took off!!! Didn't find him that day. Friends mom found him under her tree stand the next morning. Bullet hit high & back. Bullet hole was oblong, having tumbled after hitting the branch. Bullet didn't exit. Second was a doe about 50 yards away, broadside. Good hit. She made a couple circles about 20 yards in diameter & fell over dead. Both lungs & heart damaged. Bullet didn't exit. I've since gotten another barrel in 7mm-08, that i reamed to AI & put on the Stevens. Put the 250 barrel on a Savage Axis II that was originally a 22-250. I got a 26" Shilen heavy varmint barrel in 250 Savage for a small shank Savage. I was/am planning on using it for short range (under 400 yards) benchrest matches. I either need to get a stock & finish the build, or sell the barrel. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

July 14, 2022, 01:52 PM	#9
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,804	Larry Kohler There is a classic, vintage deer hunting book titled "Shots at Whitetails" written by a gent called Larry Kohler. Kohler hunted the Catskills and his book was written in '48, was considered a gospel by many in the 50's and early 60's. Kohler's favorite rifle was a 250-3000 bolt rifle a Savage 20 (?) I think, which had been lightly customized with a full length Mannlicher style stock, peep sight and perhaps the barrel had been shortened. Kohler apparently received some grief from folks regards his choice of caliber (this was in the .35 Rem, 30-30, 44-40 era) but he had high praise for his little rifle. I cannot advise what bullet weight he used.

July 13, 2022, 10:41 AM	#2
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,039	No personal experience. However, the 250 Savage has more downrange grunt than the recently beloved 6.5 Grendel, in which I shoot the 95 gr Vmax at about 2600 fps, so it should be fine on deer.

July 13, 2022, 02:34 PM	#3
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,187	No experience with that load. I have killed numerous deer with a 257 Wby using 90 grain bonded. I have shot numerous ones in the 350 to 450 yd range. They vary from piling up like a ton of bricks to running 20 or so yards. Never lost one. I am guessing you would get similar results from the 250 Savage point blank to 200. I would definitely use a bonded bullet. I assume someone still makes them. I am still loading Norma's I bought 20 years ago.

July 13, 2022, 04:01 PM	#4
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 384	A few years back I had the opportunity to use a friend’s 99 for a hunt. It was marked 250-3000 on the barrel, very nice rifle. I did take one whitetail and one hog with it on this trip. I did a handload for this rifle but I’d have to look it up. I have an old Jap Arisaka that I would love to have re barreled to the .250 cartridge. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

July 14, 2022, 08:06 AM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,648	Thank you for your responses. I revisited my bullet search, and I think I'm stuck with the 87 gr pills I have. As noted, keep the range in reason and pick your shot, good advice with a quarter bore or a 338. Norma no longer includes any .257 bullet on their website. And only Sierra and Speer list an 87. Most are 75 and lighter varmint bullets or 100+ big game rounds (or long copper). But both companies list "medium game" as an application, despite Sierra's "Varminter" designation. There is a plethora of .223, 6 mm, and 6.5 mm bullets, far fewer .257. Just not stylish anymore, but then, neither am I.

July 14, 2022, 10:44 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,187	Yeah, too bad the Army did not "invent" 6.35mm instead of 6.8mm.

July 14, 2022, 03:20 PM	#10
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,648	I'm a sucker for old books. Just ordered that one on Amazon. A little pricey, but life is short.

July 19, 2022, 12:32 PM	#11
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,648	Larry Koller did indeed use a Savage 20 in 250-3000, but he favored 100 gr bullets. In fact, he mentions a 1:10 barrel and 117s as a good combination. My book is a 1970 reprint with an Introduction by Jack O'Connor. Penciled note in the front indicates someone bought it then for $4.89. It's out of print now, but I found a good copy offered on Amazon---at a considerably higher price.

July 19, 2022, 09:15 PM	#12
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,187	I believe the 87 Speer Hot Cor would be my choice. It is semi bonded. It is beloved in the 250-3000.

July 19, 2022, 09:25 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,187	There are .25 wildcats on .222, .223, and 6.8 brass, so you can even have an AR that shoots like a Savage.