PPU 38 Special ammo tumbling problem

hicaliberplinker · May 26, 2020, 10:22 PM

I have four 357 Mag / 38 Special revolvers. I've found when I shoot PPU 38 Special SWC 158 gr | 10,2 g through my Chiappa Rhino 40DS and my Colt King Cobra 4" barrel most of the time the bullet tumbles leaving a 1" gash in the target instead of a nice, round hole. When I use my Smith and Wesson 686 4" barrel it leaves the gash maybe once in three or four shots and when I use my Ruger GP100 4" inch barrel it usually leaves the nice round hole. These bullets have a flat nose. Does anyone else have this experience?

Erno86 · May 27, 2020, 02:12 PM

My S&W M19 - 357 Mag/38 Special - snubby DA revolver, keyholes 146 grain Sellier & Bellot 38 Special wadcutters.

TruthTellers · May 27, 2020, 04:50 PM

Different guns shoot different ammo differently

**Mal H** · May 28, 2020, 02:27 PM

What is the twist rate of your 4 revolvers? The ammo may not be fast enough for a slow twist rate.

The GP100 is usually 1:19". I don't think the others are that much different. Sounds like the ammo is not delivering the velocity they claim it will.

reddog81 · May 28, 2020, 03:04 PM

Sounds like the paper target is tearing. What are you using as a backer? Weight of the paper used for the target also makes a difference

USSR · May 28, 2020, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Sounds like the paper target is tearing. What are you using as a backer?

Ditto. Use a cardboard backer and see what happens then.

Don

MSD Mike · May 28, 2020, 03:13 PM

In addition to what others have suggested I would measure bullet diameter. Lead bullets for38/357 should be .358, undersized lead bullets can tumble. They will lead the barrel as well.

Thanks
Mike

Hal · May 28, 2020, 04:23 PM

I can get 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullets to tumble when I use too fast of a powder to push them above 850 fps.
I can also have those issues if the lube has been somehow damaged.

According to the specs - that PPU is rated at just over 900 fps. That's just a hair on the fast side for a standard pressure 158 grain lead.
Usually - they run 850 fps.

I'd try a different ammo - maybe something jacketed - and see if the problem follows the 158 grain bullet or not.

Doc Holliday 1950 · May 28, 2020, 07:32 PM

I had the same problem with my 327 magnum revolver. PPU, especially as revolver ammo, is absolutely the dirtiest ammo I've ever come across. Why do you think it's so cheap.You have to clean your revolver super clean "AFTER EVERY USE" & even that might not work. Spoke to 3 gun smiths & they all said the same thing. So I took my remaining boxes down to my local PD & gave it to them to dispose.

CajunBass · May 29, 2020, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Sounds like the paper target is tearing. What are you using as a backer? Weight of the paper used for the target also makes a difference.

I'd bet five buck to a stale donut this is the problem.

MSD Mike · May 29, 2020, 02:04 PM

"when I use my Ruger GP100 4" inch barrel it usually leaves the nice round hole."

This make me think the paper is not tearing. I think it would do it with all guns,

Mike

Zzeke · May 29, 2020, 04:32 PM

What Mike said. The paper doesn't know which gun fired the bullet. Not a target issue.

hicaliberplinker · June 6, 2020, 11:31 PM

I use heavy duty paper plates. Since the Ruger and the Smith seem to handle it better I'll just use the PPU with them exclusively until it's all gone and keep those two barrels extra clean. Then no more PPU. Thanx for the input.

May 26, 2020, 10:22 PM	#1
hicaliberplinker Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2020 Location: Northeastern Colorado Posts: 2	PPU 38 Special ammo tumbling problem I have four 357 Mag / 38 Special revolvers. I've found when I shoot PPU 38 Special SWC 158 gr \| 10,2 g through my Chiappa Rhino 40DS and my Colt King Cobra 4" barrel most of the time the bullet tumbles leaving a 1" gash in the target instead of a nice, round hole. When I use my Smith and Wesson 686 4" barrel it leaves the gash maybe once in three or four shots and when I use my Ruger GP100 4" inch barrel it usually leaves the nice round hole. These bullets have a flat nose. Does anyone else have this experience?

May 27, 2020, 02:12 PM	#2
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,779	My S&W M19 - 357 Mag/38 Special - snubby DA revolver, keyholes 146 grain Sellier & Bellot 38 Special wadcutters. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

May 27, 2020, 04:50 PM	#3
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,962	Different guns shoot different ammo differently __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

May 28, 2020, 02:27 PM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 17,067	What is the twist rate of your 4 revolvers? The ammo may not be fast enough for a slow twist rate. The GP100 is usually 1:19". I don't think the others are that much different. Sounds like the ammo is not delivering the velocity they claim it will.

May 28, 2020, 03:04 PM	#5
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,659	Sounds like the paper target is tearing. What are you using as a backer? Weight of the paper used for the target also makes a difference

May 28, 2020, 03:13 PM	#7
MSD Mike Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 215	In addition to what others have suggested I would measure bullet diameter. Lead bullets for38/357 should be .358, undersized lead bullets can tumble. They will lead the barrel as well. Thanks Mike

May 28, 2020, 04:23 PM	#8
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,564	I can get 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullets to tumble when I use too fast of a powder to push them above 850 fps. I can also have those issues if the lube has been somehow damaged. According to the specs - that PPU is rated at just over 900 fps. That's just a hair on the fast side for a standard pressure 158 grain lead. Usually - they run 850 fps. I'd try a different ammo - maybe something jacketed - and see if the problem follows the 158 grain bullet or not.

May 28, 2020, 07:32 PM	#9
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	I had the same problem with my 327 magnum revolver. PPU, especially as revolver ammo, is absolutely the dirtiest ammo I've ever come across. Why do you think it's so cheap.You have to clean your revolver super clean "AFTER EVERY USE" & even that might not work. Spoke to 3 gun smiths & they all said the same thing. So I took my remaining boxes down to my local PD & gave it to them to dispose.

May 29, 2020, 02:04 PM	#11
MSD Mike Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 215	"when I use my Ruger GP100 4" inch barrel it usually leaves the nice round hole." This make me think the paper is not tearing. I think it would do it with all guns, Mike

May 29, 2020, 04:32 PM	#12
Zzeke Member Join Date: April 26, 2020 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 37	What Mike said. The paper doesn't know which gun fired the bullet. Not a target issue.

June 6, 2020, 11:31 PM	#13
hicaliberplinker Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2020 Location: Northeastern Colorado Posts: 2	I use heavy duty paper plates. Since the Ruger and the Smith seem to handle it better I'll just use the PPU with them exclusively until it's all gone and keep those two barrels extra clean. Then no more PPU. Thanx for the input.