High Tek

steve_l · March 31, 2019, 07:30 PM

I was going to try some high tek bullets and I see that Missouri Bullet has bullets with and with out grooves. Do you need the grooves as they are not lubed?
Thanks Steve

disseminator · March 31, 2019, 07:49 PM

You do not need the grooves but the presence of them or the lack thereof will have an effect on your load.

I shoot ACME bullets which use the hitek and they are selling a mix of bullets with and without the lube groove. Just account for the difference and it shouldn't be an issue one way or the other.

andyjr11 · April 1, 2019, 08:54 AM

What do you mean, account for the difference?

Hammerhead · April 1, 2019, 09:14 AM

The groove bullets are just older designs from wax lube bullets, no lube groove bullets are made from modern designs meant for hitek coating. I shoot 2 different coated 9mm bullets. One has grooves, one doesn't. I notice no difference in performance and load them exactly the same.

steve_l · April 1, 2019, 04:32 PM

Ok that's what I thought just wanted to make sure.
Thanks Steve

disseminator · April 2, 2019, 07:30 PM

Quote:

The groove bullets are just older designs from wax lube bullets, no lube groove bullets are made from modern designs meant for hitek coating. I shoot 2 different coated 9mm bullets. One has grooves, one doesn't. I notice no difference in performance and load them exactly the same.

The difference is that the bullets with no lube groove are shorter than the ones with a lube groove even though they are the same weight. The longer bullet protrudes deeper into the case than the ones without a groove do.

That is what you have to account for.

You will likely need to adjust your charge weight, though the difference won't be huge.

74A95 · April 2, 2019, 08:30 PM

Differences in velocity between lube groove and no lube groove bullets was minor to non-existent in this article: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/...-cast-bullets/

Hammerhead · April 3, 2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:

The difference is that the bullets with no lube groove are shorter than the ones with a lube groove even though they are the same weight. The longer bullet protrudes deeper into the case than the ones without a groove do.

That is what you have to account for.

In theory that is correct, especially with the 9mm's tiny case. It wouldn't matter much in a 357, but seating bullets deeper in a 9mm case can raise pressure significantly.

I'm using 2 different 9mm 125 grain cone bullets, MBC with lube groove and bevel base and BBI no lube groove, square base. The MBC is .613" long, the BBI is .608", not enough to worry about.
I also have some 9mm 125 grain SWCs, but can't use them. Due to a short leade in my 9mm barrel I have to seat them so deep in the case that it would not be safe to load them.

The key is knowing how deep the base of your bullet is (seating depth) when transferring load data from one bullet to another.

74A95 · April 3, 2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

I also have some 9mm 125 grain SWCs, but can't use them. Due to a short leade in my 9mm barrel I have to seat them so deep in the case that it would not be safe to load them.

Why would it not be safe to load them? Can't you just reduce the powder charge so it would be safe?

Hammerhead · April 3, 2019, 12:32 PM

It probably could be done, but it would all be experimental data and probably very sensitive to minor variations in powder charge or bullet depth.
Risks outweighing rewards.

74A95 · April 3, 2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

It probably could be done, but it would all be experimental data and probably very sensitive to minor variations in powder charge or bullet depth.
Risks outweighing rewards.

It can be done. Any load can be adjusted for seating depth. We do that all the time - every time we change bullets. And a small powder chamber is not a problem as long as the load is adjusted, after all, even very heavy bullets can be loaded in the 9mm. There's factory ammo with 158 and 165 grain bullets, and one can load your own heavy bullets too.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...-need-to-know/

And you could contact the powder companies and ask for their advice. They're very helpful.

Hammerhead · April 3, 2019, 05:14 PM

Thanks, might look that up.
I only have a hundred SWCs, and the cones are doing what I want, so for now I'm going to experiment further with the cones.
Right now I'm contemplating a small batch with the bullets seated out long enough to headspace on the bullet instead of the rim like they do with some target .45 auto loads.

March 31, 2019, 07:30 PM	#1
steve_l Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2005 Posts: 7	High Tek I was going to try some high tek bullets and I see that Missouri Bullet has bullets with and with out grooves. Do you need the grooves as they are not lubed? Thanks Steve

March 31, 2019, 07:49 PM	#2
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,012	You do not need the grooves but the presence of them or the lack thereof will have an effect on your load. I shoot ACME bullets which use the hitek and they are selling a mix of bullets with and without the lube groove. Just account for the difference and it shouldn't be an issue one way or the other.

April 1, 2019, 08:54 AM	#3
andyjr11 Member Join Date: March 27, 2013 Posts: 40	What do you mean, account for the difference?

April 1, 2019, 09:14 AM	#4
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	The groove bullets are just older designs from wax lube bullets, no lube groove bullets are made from modern designs meant for hitek coating. I shoot 2 different coated 9mm bullets. One has grooves, one doesn't. I notice no difference in performance and load them exactly the same.

April 1, 2019, 04:32 PM	#5
steve_l Junior Member Join Date: September 17, 2005 Posts: 7	Ok that's what I thought just wanted to make sure. Thanks Steve

April 2, 2019, 08:30 PM	#7
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,674	Differences in velocity between lube groove and no lube groove bullets was minor to non-existent in this article: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/...-cast-bullets/

April 3, 2019, 12:32 PM	#10
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	It probably could be done, but it would all be experimental data and probably very sensitive to minor variations in powder charge or bullet depth. Risks outweighing rewards.

April 3, 2019, 05:14 PM	#12
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Thanks, might look that up. I only have a hundred SWCs, and the cones are doing what I want, so for now I'm going to experiment further with the cones. Right now I'm contemplating a small batch with the bullets seated out long enough to headspace on the bullet instead of the rim like they do with some target .45 auto loads.