Primers?

[Venti30]

I have used cci 500 primers exclusively for my 9mm reloads, about 15,000 of them and have been generally happy with them, until today.

During a range visit, I brought 200 rounds, and during the last 50, had 6 click, no bang. All appeared to be light strikes.

I was running my p365.

Primers prior to being loaded were stored in my dehumidified safe, and once loaded were again stored in my dehumidified safe.

After the 5th click, I asked the RSO to test fire for me to check that I wasn’t limp wristing or doing something stupid that was causal, and in the ten he shot, one was a click. I put that round in my 226, and it would not fire, where as two of the 5 I experienced did fire out of my later attempt in my 226.

I have read that cci primers are “harder” than others, but don’t have any actual data to back that up.

After going home to pack to go out of town, I went back to the range and test fired the generic 115 grain fiochi fodder that they sell at the range, and in 50 rounds, had zero failures.

Perplexed, I’m asking if in your opinion or experience,have you had clicks , no bangs that you attributed to the primer you chose, and what primers you use, and why?

There’s no apparent wear or breakage/defects on my striker and as I said, I test fired 50 rounds of range issue ammo without incident.

The experience though of 6 clicks in the last 50 out of 200 has me scratching my head for sure.

There were no pregnant or deformed primers in the “click” rounds. No visual cues other than the light strike. No prior incidents and no visual or mechanical indications of failure to go to battery when I had the click.

[Marco Califo]

Almost always, this turns out to be primers not seated deep enough. The firing pin loses and wastes a bit of energy pushing the primer that little bit further, then no bang.
Primers need to be seated with a good deal of force, and contact the bottom of the primer pocket.
This is one reason I like to use a hand-primer, and immediately examine the result. That may not be possible on a progressive press. But you can make sure you are using enough pressure, or use a little more.

[markr6754]

Sadly, I've experienced quite an assortment of click, no bang. In every case the round went bang the next time. That said, I have the experience with every primer I've tried, but with 45ACP, much more often than 9mm. I'm a new reloader (4 months), and have concluded that despite my best effort, and paying very close attention, the problem is high primers. So first click, I've fully seated the primer, second hammer fall...bang. I attribute the issue to my Black&Decker Workmate load table conversion...there's just not enough stability to ensure a consistent loading process, and primer seating needs a solid base to ensure success. I plan to obtain a Frankford Arsenal Hand Primer, to overcome my single stage press issues.

I believe that your 15,000 rounds of experience preclude a high-primer issue...but the fact that they fired on a subsequent try points in that direction. Even if you had a hard primer issue, I'd find it unlikely to have 6 hard primers out of a lot. They're either all hard or all soft in a particular package. If it were a hard primer issue I'd have expected a far greater number of clicks.

[Venti30]

It’s certainly possible that the initial seat from the press was insufficient, and as part of figuring it out I have to know that.

Troubling though, is that a couple would t fire from alternate gun,
I generally run 500 round batches of target rounds, which after complete get dry tumbled, so there as many as 5 100 primer sleeves that get boxed up into their range transport boxes.

It was an odd day, and just trying to consider all possibilities.

Thanks guys, since the factory ammo ran 100% after the fact, the most likely factor is the reloads.

[Hammerhead]

Sometimes the primers just don't fit the brass well and don't seat right even with quite a bit of force. Had trouble a couple years ago with Tula SP primers in Win 357 brass (fit fine in Fed Brass), and now again this weekend with Rem 5-1/2 SPM primers not fitting in my Blazer 45 auto small primer brass. A real PITA. Switching to CCI 500's actually fixed my problem, they seat much better in the Blazer brass.

Try a different brand. Winchester SPP's always seem to seat easily and are softer than CCI.

[USSR]

Venti30,

In the reloading course I teach, we seat all primers with a handheld primer tool. Primers seated off a press just don't give you the "feel" for the seating operation that a handheld tool does.

Don

[mikld]

Ninety percent of FTF for a newer reloader is improper primer seating (although with 15k rounds done, it may not apply to the OP). For me, the only failures in 30+ years were from improperly seated primers (all from hand held priming). I seat all my primers all the way to the bottom of the pocket and give a little extra "ummmph" to make doubly sure they are seated. I disregard any "below flush measurement" and have not had a FTF for any of my 4 revolvers, 5 pistols, 3 bolt rifles and 2 semi-auto rifles. One of the most positive methods for primer seating (and recommended by Lyman) is ram prime tools...

[F. Guffey]

Sadly, I've experienced quite an assortment of click, no bang. In every case the round went bang the next time.

Not lucky or unlucky; (again) a shooter brought me a box of 30/06 R-P ammo, in the box was 5 fail to fire and 15 that did fire, before he left the range I instructed him to call the phone number on the box.

He said there was at least 5 attempts with three different rifles to bust the primers. The first rifle was a new Ruger.

I weighed, measured all dimensions and was impressed with the results. After pulling the failed to fire rounds I removed the primers, all the primers had been punished. When finished I installed the primers back in to the cases and then chambered them one at a time in one of my rifles with a killer firing pin. It was noisy but all 5 primers when bang.

In my opinion; had I been at the range the primers would have fired in one of my rifles with killer firing pins. The shooter that brought the ammo over could have taken one of my rifles back to the rang and fired the cases before we pulled the fail to fire cases apart.

And then there was the array; the shooter returned home and began searching the Internet for tools we used to measure the fired and failed to fire cases/rounds. He called, I told him he would have to return because the tools we used were not available, the tools were home made.

F. Guffey

[Nick_C_S]

With the exception of my race revolver (which I use a softer primer), all I have ever used is CCI 500's (and 550's as applicable) since 1984.

I have never had one fail to ignite - we're talking well past the hundred thousand neighborhood. And 700 were 27 years old (long story).

Almost always, this turns out to be primers not seated deep enough.

^^ That ^^

[higgite]

150 rounds with no problems, then 6 “clicks” in the last 50. Just spit wadding here, but it could be that something got dirty during the first 150 rounds (or 1000's of previous rounds). How long has it been since you cleaned the firing pin channel? A little bit of grit bouncing around in the firing pin channel could go a long way with hard primers and still not be enough to affect softer factory primers. You did mention light primer strikes.

[Chainsaw.]

Make sure your firing pin channel is clean, I have on several occasions had this be an issue.

[labnoti]

Was the brass dry? I suppose there can be a lot of reasons for primer failure, but to me it is a minor issue. I would be more concerned about primers igniting, but powder failing and getting a squib.

The first load of brass I wet tumbled, I shook the water off in the media separator, hit it with a heat gun, then let it air dry for about 4 hours. There weren't drops of water in it at that point, but it wasn't dry. Fortunately, I dumped the powder out of the first round and recharged it to double-check the powder measure. I saw a few flakes of powder stick inside the casing. I loaded up 100 anyway, because I didn't know better.

I began to fire it cautiously. First shot, primer failed. Second cartridge, primer failed. Third and fourth fired. The fifth sizzled and the bullet stuck in the forcing cone. The other 95 are waiting for the bullets to be pulled.

Now I tumble my brass in dry media after the wet. I decap, wet tumble, air dry, then tumble in corncob with a vibratory tumbler.

I'm just relating this because a problem with a firing pin or hard primers won't blow you up, but if the cartridges are getting contaminated, the next failure could be a squib.

[Venti30]

Brass was dry. Primers before use are stored in my de-humidified safe. Once rounds are completed, they are also stored in the same safe.

I used to wet tumble, but decided a good while ago that the extra 10% shiny factor wasn't worth the considerable extra effort.

I have not cleaned the striker, or channel, ever. Wondering what the suggested interval is.

[F. Guffey]

With the exception of my race revolver (which I use a softer primer), all I have ever used is CCI 500's (and 550's as applicable) since 1984.

I have never had one fail to ignite - we're talking well past the hundred thousand neighborhood. And 700 were 27 years old (long story).


Quote:
Almost always, this turns out to be primers not seated deep enough.

^^ That ^^

Back to the 5 that failed to fire. The owner of the new rugger purchased 3 boxes of R-P 30/06 ammo, it would have been nice had the shooter brought me the phone number of the new owner of the Ruger and new ammo.

I thought the primers were made of good stuff; if not they would not have survived the 5+ attempts to fire.

F. Guffey

[Average Joe]

Primer not seated deep enough. Typical cause .

[Venti30]

10-4, agreed

[Mobuck]

Funny stuff can happen inside a 9mm chamber.

[RC20]

Brass was dry. Primers before use are stored in my de-humidified safe. Once rounds are completed, they are also stored in the same safe.

While low probability of boom, storing an explosive (which primers are) in a contained space created a boom.

Unless your equipment has gone off and not seating (and its easy to confirm) then the striker has an issue, from not a clean snap (dirt) to a worn end.

An issue with strikers it hey need to be clean to fire, lube them too much they attract dirt and that gums them up (the glock in the mud BS show aside)

So a good cleaning and lube per the mfg.

As an aside, its why I like hammer fired, lube em and shoot em.

[Chainsaw.]

About the firing pin channel.

Interval? Hmm. Good question. Ive found that shooting reloads adds just a tiny amount of brass shavings to the mix, in several of my guns Ive found those shavings in the firing pin channel. The pin will still move and will fire most rounds but occasionally gets slowed down enough to cause a light strike/no go boom.

Now compound that with high primers and you could have a real problem. Its easy to clean on most guns and is cheap insurance.

[kmw1954]

Most cases it's high primers.

I have a PT92 9mm that absolutely hates CCI Primers. When using them in this gun I get a 40% failure rate. But only in this gun. Same primers loaded at the same time on the same press used in 4 other pistols and not a single failure.

Now in this same PT92 I've shot all different brands of factory ammo and 3 different brands of primers with out a single failure. So no I am not sending the gun out for repair.

[Dufus]

Sorta like what Nick C S stated, I started using CCI primers when I first started
stuffing my own back in April 1963. I used them in everything shotgun, rifle, to handgun.

Out of all those thousands of cartridges and shotshells I only had one squib, and that was with a 44 Mag that had been sitting back on the shelf for 30 years.

[Marco Califo]

Squib (bullet stuck in barrel) is NOT the same as a primer failure to fire. Squibs are typically due to zero, or very little, powder. The primer alone can push a bullet into the barrel. What we are talking about here is when the primer does nothing when struck.
Squibs are far more dangerous because they obstruct the barrel, and a follow-up shot in the obstructed barrel would be expected to suddenly and violently disassemble the firearm, and injure the shooter.

[Dufus]

Well, to satisfy Marco Califo, the first snap did nothing except snap. The second snap produced a squib with the bullet stuck in the forcing cone. Just so we are straight. The second resulted in a good bit of H110 hanging out all the cracks.

[AK103K]

It isn't always about what you're doing and about what you're buying.

About a year or so I had the displeasure of buying about 10000 or so Remington small pistol primers. The were dirt cheap, $19/1000.

Turned out, they were good for malfunction drills and aggravation. They had a 5% plus failure rate, and most did not fire on the second strike.

I loaded them in 9mm (most of what I shoot handgun wise), 38, and 357, and all had the same problem.

They do work great for unstaged, and unexpected malfunctions though. That was the only good thing about them.

I normally use CCI's for pistol and rifle, unless they are unavailable. Never had an issue with them. They are all I use in my rifles, as I've had slam fires with Winchesters in my AR's.

The CCI's seem better suited for rifles where that is, or might be an issue.

Ive been using an old RCBS "O" press to do my priming. I tried the hand presses for awhile, and was not having good luck with some of the swaged military cases I was using at the time. Even when swaged, they were often still very stiff, if not impossible to get seated with the hand primer. The press gives a lot more leverage to get things done.

I can "feel" the primers seat fine, and every round gets the finger test as it comes out of the shell holder.

[BBarn]

No significant issues with primers here. Use Winchester, Remington, Federal, and CCI, though not every type in every brand. Perhaps 1 in 10,000 fail to fire on first strike in all. All primed with Lee hand primer or on progressive press. Nearly all the guns firing them have stock hammer or striker springs.